Clutch wasted

Um, this is on page 4 of the "BMW Motorrad Canada New Motorcycle Limited Warranty" booklet that came with my bike, under a section headed "THIS WARRANTY DOES NOT APPLY TO THE FOLLOWING":

The following items are warrantable for defects in material and workmanship for the first 7500 kilometers:
- Brake pads, linings and rotors
- Steering head, front wheel and swing arm bearings
- Headlight bulb (H4) [which is wrong, it's an H7]
- Cables
- Clutches
- Shocks and springs
- Windshield
​

Perhaps you should see what your booklet says?

This whole "friction modified" generated division on oil compatibility with wet clutches would be solved if manufacturers isolated clutches in a separated compartment containing a "clutch friendly", low viscosity lubricant. Multi-plate dry clutches drive hard, wear faster and have a narrow bite point.

The separation of transmission lubricant from engine lubricant and the non issue of friction modifyers for the dry clutch boxer twins is a tick in the simplicity box.

Yeah... that is soooo much easier than just grabbing the appropriate oil... let's just change basic motorcycle design.

This whole thing seems cut and dry to me.

1. Use appropriate oil, motorcycle specific.
2. Make sure your clutch isn't too tight.
3. Ride

+1

If the clutch free play was wrong in the manual and the bike was set up wrong then it should qualify as a defect in workmanship. Clutch plates aren't usually covered under warranty, BUT if BMW set up the bike with too little slack then told owners to continue to adjust the cable too tight thereby causing premature wear, then it hardly counts as "normal" wear and tear. Why would they suddenly add five times the original amount of slack unless there was a problem?

Air filters and chains aren't normally covered either but there have been recalls on both.

UPDATE: BMW North America called today and told me that Ironhorse submitted my claim for good will and it was denied because I didn't have the 6000 mile service done at a dealer. I pointed out that the service manager mentioned a service bulletin having come out changing the clutch free play from 1mm to 5mm. I also pointed out that clutch free play is a rider adjustment covered in the owner's manual. The manual calls for 1mm. So effectively, BMW set my bike up wrong and told me to keep it adjusted incorrectly. If it requires five times the slack they initially thought then I would classify the clutch wearing out as a defect in workmanship. He said the case was closed but he would document my unhappiness. I asked for his boss and he said his boss "isn't in a customer facing position". What the fuck is that? I asked him, then who do I call if I'm unhappy with how you handled this? He said he can note it in the case file. So I guess he takes complaints against himself and they get referred nowhere. That is NOT how customer service works. When you get the wrong answer, you call his boss, then his boss, then his, until finally you get a hold of someone in charge and they finally do the right thing. BMW has one step and then tough shit.

On another note: I called Victory in Chandler and ran it by the service manager there. He said it sounds pretty messed up. He took all my info and said he'd research the tech bulletin and look into any avenues he can use to help me out. THAT'S the right answer. Even if I end up paying for the clutch, Victory will be installing it now.

That does sound messed up. Either way did you file a report with the NHTSA? I would do that in any case.

Glad you found another dealer that seems to be more willing to help. You have to remember that warranty work is not paid at the same level as work paid by customers - so dealers have every incentive to have YOU and NOT BMW pay.

Reiner

Basic motorcycle design "back in the day" DID separate the transmission, clutch and engine oil volumes. The engine has extreme heat and minimal lubrication of cylinder walls that require thin oil film tenacity to maintain the lowest friction conditions possible.

A friction based clutch is inherently reliant on high friction conditions between driving surfaces. This puts its operating requirements diametrically opposed to the piston / crank assembly of the engine.

The transmission has to operate under extreme localised pressure and sliding / shearing forces.

Any single lubricant that is claimed to satisfy all these diverse requirements optimally is a compromise. The engine and transmission volumes are arguably compatible in their requirements and they both benefit from friction reducing ingredients in oil (extended service life, less resistance so higher fuel efficiency). Friction reliant clutches fail when used with lubricants that are optimal for engine / transmission plus they throw off debris from the clutch wearing surfaces into the common lubricant pool.

Change the oil more often and rebuild as often as you like certainly is one solution but dealing with the root cause of a problem caused by accountants running the engineering department makes more sense to me.

I understand your frustration, but getting more work done at a non-BMW dealer will only make the situation worse. BMW will probably void the entire warranty if you have Victory Motorcycles dealer work on your BMW. I know it's not what you want to hear, but BMW is 90% in the right in your case. The 6,000 mile service is pretty extensive, and must be done by a BMW dealer and tech. Not doing so voids the warranty. Getting further work done at a Victory Motorcycles dealer will only void it further.

Now, did the person at the BMW dealer do things the right way? Probably not. But I'd take it to another BMW dealer before I'd ever take it to a non-BMW dealer.

First, Victory is a BMW dealer. Not that it matters.

Second, When I bought my bike, I specifically asked the salesman if doing my own maintenance would be a problem. I asked about warranty issues specifically. I was told that BMW "prefers" the 600 mile to be done by them but after that doing my own maintenance would be no problem and I could just stop by to have the computer reset after each service. He even went so far as to say it would be illegal to void the warranty for my doing my own service. The Magnuson-Moss act confirms this.

Once again...open mouth insert foot.

My point exactly about the dealership. They assumed it was my fault before looking at a thing. I talked to a couple of other dealerships and they told me good will claims rely largely on what the dealer says. If they say "some guy fired his clutch and wants a free one" I expect that to be denied. How could they properly present a claim if they haven't even seen the bike?

Glad you realized that you need to insert your foot in your mouth.

You should have said "Victory BMW" then, not just "Victory". Simply saying "Victory" insinuates Victory Motorcycles. One cannot read another's mind via the internet. Deal.

Also, you did not disclose what I've highlighted in red in your initial post. Once again, one cannot read another's mind via the internet.

If you act in person like you act on this forum it would be no surprise that any dealer would be looking to wash their hands of you.

How does your toe jam taste?

Had the clutch go toast on my '09 F800GS last summer; under 9000mi.
Can't remember actual mileage and I am away so can't look it up. But the clutch actually started slipping early on (2400-ish), had it adjusted a couple of times until we ran out of adjustment. My dealer opened it up, measured plates and springs and such and said my clutch was definitely out of spec and failed way too soon. Dealer took care of it and submitted for goodwill service or some such thing to BMW to get themselves taken care of but they just took care of my bike at no charge to me. Old clutch had all but two plates out of spec (too thin) and 3 of the springs (too short) as well. They replaced everything with new stuff. The new clutch from BMW had beefier plates and springs. Also a new clutch cable which was an improved version as well. So not entirely uncommon a problem, and when I had mine go I did some searching around here and some other sites and found that it wasn't just mine. Also, BMW obvious recognized a problem and improved the clutch and clutch cable.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" /><o></o>

Did you report to NHTSA? You should have - there is no other way to help prevent others having similar issues and not getting covered by BMW.....

Reiner

When I had my clutch replaced at 15.5k miles I was told by the service manager that clutches are wear items and not covered under warranty. If the bike had a few thousand miles less and I hadn't thrashed it quite so hard (the scenario described in the OP) I would have raised hell with the dealer and BMW NA if necessary, 'cause a $600 fix every 10k miles is totally unacceptable.

edit: Oh, I also bought my bike used through a dealer, so the first 2300 miles on the bike are a mystery. For all I know the PO could have been doing burnouts the entire 2300. This also hurt my case for any kind of warranty coverage.

I started this thread to enlist the experience and knowledge of others to help me with an issue. It's obvious from your posts so far that all you bring to the table is speculation and assumption (all incorrect so far). So, I would ask you to please just leave well enough alone and take your negativity elsewhere.

I just found the link to them. I'll be submitting my occurance.

C'mon Griz SERIOUSLY?....... After posting this?.............

Totally not true.

That's how my Buell is designed. With 2 fill points, drain plugs, and fluids to deal with, it could be argued that having only one reserviour is simpler. I personally don't have a preference. I just wish all my vehicles used the same oil.

Work with a good dealer.
It should be a warranty fix. 9k miles is not enough to wear out a clutch under normal riding & adjustment. If you slip the clutch a lot off road then maybe but it would have to be a lot or most of your riding which then would not be "normal" riding.
Doesn't matter if you do your own maintenance as long as you do it on schedule & document it.

All the oil conversation is pointless. Use what you want and quit arguing about it. If you do some research you'll learn that JASO-MA is what you need. Many "car" oils are JASO-MA approved. If yours is then you are pretty much good to go. I run Shell Rotella T6 full synth in both my F800GS & my trackbike which is a GSXR-750. It's $20 a gallon or so and is JASO-MA certified. Enough said.

Take your bike to your good & friendly dealer and hopefully they will work with you to fix it & cover it under warranty. I know I'd expect mine to...

Oh & Griz- seriously? You're pissy with the original poster because you made assumptions about what he did or didn't do, say, or what his dealer is or isn't? Come on buddy. Relax & back away from the keyboard. It's all good. Nobody type crap, nobody gets hurt.

Rideon.