The Yamaha Super Tenere XT1200Z Big Thread

would be hard to imagine I admit !

You rather buy every three years new ones, or don't you go offroad with your investment ?

If to much yes, but in the hands of a cunning rider, a bit of slip gives just a bit extra grip, and the TC is made to function relatively prudent for good Offroad performance, so it cuts in before the 7% slip is achieved, its traction control, not launch control...

You've got six modus operandii with the Tenere, if you put on al safety features its becomes a sort of XS650

If you set it to S without TC it becomes a complete different animal
(a bit itchy like the old Crosseyed TDM)

R1150GSA, R100RS

My 1st 1000k done on the S10 and having owned a TDM900 this does everything better so the only thing in my opinion that will keep the TDM in production is the large price difference as the S10 is a far superior bike IMHO.

Cheers Rick

The power outlet is switched power as i tapped into the back of it for power for the Zumo so that left the outlet free for other devices.

Cheers Rick

I read through a lot of threads on the BMW site and all of the issues above contributed to me buying the Tenere instead of the GS/A..
Heres one from yesterday about both shocks fucked at less than 1000kms
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=598090
Who knows, maybe the future holds the same heartache for Yamaha owners,,, somehow I dont think so..

Greg.

All the Jap bikes I have owned or other people I know well have owned (and I mean Made in Japan, not Japan Brand Made somewhere else) over the last 30 years were

1) A bit more conservative in the design than the latest gee whiz band Euro except the engines, which were made to outdo the latest High HP job from the other Manufacturers (1980's)

2) Tended to just work, and If you had to maintain them it was the same old adjustments over and over again. (points - Late 70's)

3) Once the points were turfed in favour of electronic ignition no problems.

4) One stand out exception. A YAMAHA XS500? Twin from 1975? that I was lucky enough not to own, but I spent a lot of time helping with. Had a two piece head or something and would leak like a Triumph. YAMAHA changed it within a year or something but many owners were not happy.

So the odds are that the YAMAHA will be fine. Not the least of which is they are in the Work hard to create a reputation stage with the S10.

Funny thing was, back then BMW, while being underpowered and boring to the younger crowd, were known to just keep going and going and going....


Cheers
Graham

what I dont like about the rims is that the Yamaha engineers must have looked at the BMW rims and said " we can make a wheel just as strong for half the cost"

which is fine - but to my 'engineer' eyes, its just not as satisfying

I have an Old Bentley - I have no doubt that from a manufacturing standpoint, a Kia is a better 'quality' car.
But I just love the extra work that went into it.

Please dont get annoyed because I dont want a super tenere, I dont want a VFR1200 either and I gave my '08 1200GS to my brother as a wedding present

I am just odd

I have a garage full of old Ducatis, some Yamaha singles, a VFR800 and am actually enjoying riding a low mileage 1980 CB400N Super Dream that I boughtfor £310 Last year

I used enjoy one of those too. I understand maaan!

By the way YAMAHA have made Mcycles for years with spoked wheels.

I think they may have been able to do it without copying anyone. They do make other bikes with wire you know and have done for many decades.

When are we all going to grow out of this Japan copying stuff mentality. The poor bastards have been making motorcycles for more than 50 years and they still can't get a break.

Cheers
Graham

Not Yamaha, they always focused on *usable* power, and even made two stroke ridable, whit the invetion of the exhaust valve on the RD LC, which they later transplanted on the FZ (and BMW now has on its GS...)

It was the first 4-valve since Rudge experimented with it, and many owner where happy with it, but for its ugly box shaped design.

The worst nightmare Yamaha produced was the XV 550 its first watercooler, with a trailing fork, top notch "Art of Enginering" but well a bit overthe top, that leaked enormous as soon as you put another brand of coolant in it, the rubber was allergic to anything other than Yamaha coolant...

And the tested it *themselves* for more than a year to get the electronics of ABS and TC totally unobtrusive, it actually had to come out last year, but tests revealed it wasn't fit for release to experienced riders, the prime market of Yamaha.

Yep, but now they dump the GS on the market in such numbers they seem to have no time to get production to cope with the volume.

With their search for Power, they delved to deep, and found the Balrog
(quite a few of the Testmotorcycles exploded in the hands of the Das Motorrad testers, a K1300 2 times even, first a clutch desintegrated, they got a new engine, and there a conrod failed...)

Engine seizures of a Yamaha died out are with the demise of air cooled two strokes.

A lot of lads are dissapointed in the weight of the S10,but i myself am verry glad they let durability prevail on anorexic engineering

whats the NZ price Dave?

Have you actually ridden a Crossspoked wheel offroad?
If got a garage full of warped Beemer wheels, engineering wise its a real stupid design, as soon as you hit a rock hardwith the side of the rim, you have not only a dent in the rim like on any other bike, but you lose tension on those spokes, which will warp the wheel !

And then you have a nice new problem, because BMW wheels are a real pain in the ass to retension, because when tensioning you can easily warp it even more.

BMW itseld even claimed a wheel can only be retensioned on their machines, and that it would be impossible to do by hand.


Now look at the double T-beam cross-section of the Tenere rim, try to figure out how much force you will need to get that construction warped?

I think the construction is mainly to be attributed to the impeccable stability on corners of the new Tenere, even willfull agitating by incilanted hitting a speedbump just after a tight corner in "de Ooi" would not get it out of its composure.

Hi,

I just bought the last Moto Revue magazine for the test of the 2 beasts.
The marks are on a 20 points scale.
The GS wins by a very tiny 0.5 point : 15.6 for the GS and 15.1 for the XTZ.

BMW Yamaha
Engine 16 14
Road handling 16 16
Brakes 16 16
Ease of use 14 16
Comfort 16 15
General agreement 16 14
Passenger 16 16
Equipment 16 17
Fuel autonomy 19 16
Build Quality 16 15
Price 11 11

Final mark 15.6 15.1

I don't understand the price mark with 11 points for both bikes.
They give these prices
Standard GS adventure : 15 200 €
Tested GS adventure : 18 890 €

XTZ 1200 : 14 990 €

They even speak about a 3 750 € difference with the same equipment level and still give the same price mark...

I personally got a 10% discount on the XTZ with the ordered accessories.

The performance measurements are nearly exactly the same :

BMW Yamaha
Max speed +210 kph +210 kph
50 to 90 kph 5th gear 3.6 s 3.6s
90 to 130 kph 5th gear 3.6 s 3.6s
90 to 130 kph 6th gear 4.6s 4.4s
Fuel economy 6.5 l/100Km 6.7 l/100 km
Fuel autonomy 507 km 343 km

Crank power 112.5 hp @7920 111.9 hp @7440
Rear wheel power 90 hp @7920 86.2 hp @7440
Crank torque 11.9 mkg @ 6170 11.9 mkg @5880
Rear wheel torque 9.6 mkg @6170 9.2 mkg @ 5880

Well if the "desktop riders" want to spec shop then so be it, but until a "toughness index" comes out then that's all they have to squabble about.

If it carries the weight well then so what?

If it is too much for some condition there are other bikes out there.

I mean I am still managing to cope with a "big outdated pig" which only weighs 25Kg more than my first 250cc bike. I never really had any trouble picking that up the numerous times I dropped it. Now I have 750cc more and only 25Kg more weight. Must be all that air space in the motor

On the other hand the weight is further along the fulcrum so it feels more when I tip it over.

Cheers
Graham

2 out of the 4 GSses we had, had it, one 2x...

My girl smoked her clutch, on the first Yorkshire bash with the English XT club, following Ray

Not with any of our GSses, but the 1200 didnt last long enough to occur ...

One here, resulting in oil on the back rotor

hey, you have to change a chain also !
(had it three times now in 600+ KKM)

And there Yamaha, just as they did with the rims learned from BMW's mistakes, they opted for only 1 U-joint, and a way longer drive shaft, so the joint doesn't have to make such a horrible sharp angle as on the GS.

So strain on the joint is minimised, and powerloss too

The way longer swingarm gives lots of stability in corners without sacrificing agility, real MotoGP engineering

And in the (imho impossibly) rare event it might fail, it's not burried deep inside the swing arm, but they have nicely worked it *outside* of the swing arm, you take away, the feetguard, and pull the rubber sock back, and you can exchange a failed bearing, yes the bearings in the U-joint are partsnumbers !

No very expensive bill of hours and hours work at 112€ "Exlusive BMW garage" when the aluminium swingarmpivotbolts have corroded themselfs "welded" into the Tranny, just three screws two circlips and a small bearing or two, and within a quarter of an hour you are out of Ougadougou again...
(any blacksmith can help you...)

1200 GS exlusive, 11xx only getthe occasional leaking seal, but no failures.

Again 1200 exlusive

Yup, and very Toolfriendly, anything that is known to be in frequent need of attention, or a big pain to fix is made easily maintainable, or engeneered in a way it won't fail in the first place, think of the rubber cushioned springloaded and over dimensioned driveshaft spline, it actiually functions so well one could mistake this driveshaft for a chain, no such thing as the *Whack, Whack* when closing and re-opening the throttle, so clutchless gearchanges are as easy as on a WR250

Umm, Build quality is what it looks like on the outside, Not whether the thing is about to fall apart on the inside. So the BMW looks better finished.

They can't pull the thing apart and do wear analysis and crack testing on the thing so if they have nice paint and machining and nice welds then it will get the better mark.

So in the end if the 0.6 points is worth 3 750 € then go for it gunga diin.

I for one didn't buy a GS for the "paranoia factor"* and the fact that I had to pay TWICE the price as a Strom. So I went for "best value" and "best chance at reliability".

Sorry it's not twice the bike and I won't pay $AUD8K more for 0.6 points either assuming I agreed with all the ratings.

But thanks for the info. It seems to align with what most testers have written, (Except MCN who frankly now have no cred with me at all after watching that pathetic attempt at a review)

Did they do any Gnarly dirt work in the test or was it a Bar hopping exercise?

Cheers
Graham

* Paranoid factor - "Do I really want to risk dumping a $27K bike in the dirt and will I be one of the Shaft / ESA Shock / Canbus / ABS failure Statistics"

They had to cut the swingarm in half with a sawzall to get at the u-joint it was so seized up.