nwgs sanctions an "Official Train Thread"

Train near Tetsugakudou, Tokyo, Japan




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The UP runs a Road Railer train on their line that runs east into Wisconsin out of the Twin Cities. I don't know how often it runs, but I just happened to see it within the last few months. Other than that, they used to run some on the rear of Amtrak, but haven't for at least a couple of years. Never seen any on the BNSF, around here.

Freight railroads objected to Amtrak pulling roadrailers, they said it was unfair competition, so Amtrak discontinued the service. Amtrak spent quite a bit of money developing the equipment to make it work.

Here is a link to road railer's service area. NS does not have direct service to Mpls, so those trains have to be pulled by another road.

Interesting. Kind of makes sense that the railroads would take that position, but around here, a couple trailers on the rear end of the Empire Builder doesn't seem like it's taking a huge bite out of anyone else's business.

I used to regularly work between St. Paul and Superior over the BNSF Hinckley sub and ran some of this Rail-Mate stuff when they were testing it. I don't know if it's still being used, I haven't heard anything about it for a long time.

http://www.canadianrailwayobservations.com/PDF/CRO_0608.pdf

(Copied from the PDF above):

CP and BNSF tested new Rail-Mate cars in April. In some ways similar to "Road-Railer’s", "Rail-Mate" is a new innovative bi-modal transportation solution that recently tested on CP hauling select aggregate from Minnesota's Mesabi Iron Range for delivery to MNROAD, Minnesota Department of Transportation' s (MNDOT) cold weather pavement testing facility located near Albertville, MN. The railroad ballast-sized aggregate will be used as a foundation for a pavement test segment at MNROAD. The two-week transportation delivery system test, in conjunction with CP occurred from April 21 to May 3, 2008. RailMate units were placed on the rails at CP Hopkins Spur in Hopkins, MN. The TWIN CITIES & WESTERN Railroad (TC&W) moved the RailMate consist to the CP St. Paul Pigs Eye Yard, St. Paul, MN, and to Superior, WI. Jeff Foster Trucking, Inc., Superior, WI, provided tractors and experienced drivers moved Rail Mate trailers on and off the rail spur located at the CP Stinson Yard, Superior, WI. RailMate bogies were parked and RailMate trailers were then driven to the UnitedTaconite Mine, managed by Cleveland Cliffs, in Eveleth, MN, the heart of Minnesota's Mesabi Iron
Range, where Laurentian Aggregate loaded the aggregate material. This is a photo of the actual CP "Rail-Mate" train heading south over the BNSF Hinckley Sub, and others.​

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=232778&nseq=15​

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=232781&skip=-2
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=232780&nseq=70

I know right where the 1st 2 photos were taken......

Interesting that CP would have run that test. BNSF would have been a logical choice for that, as they have trackage that runs to Monticello, including tracks where the bogies could have been stored.

The objection to the Amtrak roadrailers was not the business that it started with, it was where it was heading. Amtrak was looking to cultivate fruit and veg express business from the west coast tot he east. UP has spent quite a bit of dough developing carload business that Amtrak would have been pursuing and then transporting on rails that they do not pay for and require dispatching superiority.

I believe it was a 'look at the big picture' kind of thing. Railroads were originally deregulated after one of the large trucking companies tried to get a hauling authority for either ostrich meat or eggs. The railroads objected, stated that their existed relied on protecting that business (or something like that). The ICC saw through that and it marked the beginning of the end of railroad and truck regulation.

I think the railroads learned from that lesson and figure that they better protect the business that they do have. Some people theorized that if the business took off, Amtrak could add trains to a schedule that would carry more trailers than passenger cars. Profitable service, to be sure, but also easy to see why freight railroads would object.

I made a delivery to stoughton trailer in Wisconsin in the late 80's when I was still driving trucks, they were making some of the original roadrailer trailers there and the original ones had the railroad axle built onto the trailer between split highway axles and all of it was air ride years later I was driving into the rail yards moving inter modal trailers and asked about the trailers I was seeing now that sat on separate railroad bogies and the guy at the yard said that the built in axle was great when it worked but that with the lack of maintenance (break down maintenance) and the extra weight added by the railroad axle, they decided it was a bad idea and went to the present system

That's how I understand it.

The current Triple Crown road railers supposedly only weigh 1,000 lbs more than a regular 53-footer.

That's a pretty big deal when every shipper want 43000 to 45000 in the box.

The 2nd and 3rd photos were taken at the same spot. He just panned to the right and got a shot after the train cleared M&J and was headed west on the Lakes sub. I only know that because he lists the location as M&J junction on both...I really liked working that line, and those photos bring back some memories. I especially liked it north of Hinckley. It was hilly and lined with aspen and pine trees, we used to see bear quite often. Most of the runs were at night. The taconite trains the BNSF run up there beat the hell out of the track though, and if they didn't stay on top of the upkeep, the whole sub would be littered with speed restrictions. The CP train now runs out of Minneapolis instead of St. Paul and I don't have much interest in working it anymore.

This was about 4am at Bruno, headed north, four or five years ago:

Not really a train- but related
from this AM, just missed/saw this in time-- on the old rail trail just west of Golden Spike monument....Irish or Chinese??

Yea, it's foo-foo, but it's still a train.

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Cool project announced a couple of weeks ago:

http://www.csrail.org/

The plan is to take a 1937 former Atkinson, Topeka, and Santa Fe passenger locomotive, convert it to burn "bio-coal", and (the best part) use it to break the world record top speed for steam locomotives.

The British hold the current record at 126 MPH, set in 1937 with the locomotive "Mallard". Before you say these guys are nuts, you should be aware that similar U.S. 4-6-4 steam locomotives routinely operated at 120 MPH in the hey day of steam operations (google Milwaukee Road Hiawatha passenger trains for more info). :eek1

I'll be watching this one closely.

I will as well. This month's Trains magazine had a blurb about the project. There has been a lot of debate about the efficiency of super power and whether it could compete with diesel. I believe they have the background to do it, but I think their timeline to restore the locomotive is pretty darn optimistic.

I wish them the best of luck.

I clicked around to find some pics of the locomotive. Looks like its starting in pretty shabby condition.




I do wish them the best of luck.

Hope they got a spare million bucks laying around... or maybe two, if they're including 'improvements'

If I remember right, NKP burned thru around a half-mill, and there was a LOT of volunteer labor involved.
And 765 was essentially an operable locomotive, except for needing the boiler work, for Fed regs.

This was already tried with the ACE 3000 project in the 80s, where they did some tests on a C&O 4-8-4
However, they used politically incorrect coal.
From a fuel cost standpoint things looked good.
However, you can never forget maintenance on a steam locomotive. The classical steam reciprocating locomotive will never return due the maintenance involved. They are great big beautiful machines, but they are not inexpensive to own.

I think they're budgeting something over $2M. They don't have the cash yet, but they won't start until they do.

Most of the operating restored steamers in the U.S. looked like the photo above after being stored in parks and similar locations for ~30 or 40 years. The worst thing that usually happens is corrosion of the exterior of the boiler. Locomotive boilers were insulated with a few inches of asbestos and then that was covered with a metal jacket. Rain seeps in through the jacket and soaks the insulation which keeps the boiler damp. Fortunately there are still guys around who know how to do major repairs like this and the tools needed are available.

I agree it's very unlikely classical reciprocating steam will ever approach diesel levels of maintenance, but things can be a lot better than they typically were. Boiler water treatment specifically intended for "open" steam cycles like used on a steam locmotive has come a LONG ways and can radically reduce internal boiler maintenance (see the reference to the "Porta Treatment" on the group's website). A lot of the mechanical problems can be reduced or eliminated through good detailed design of the parts. Back in steam days labor was cheap and a lot of mechanical wear was just accepted and dealt with. Things could have been better.

Of course, there was an old addage about diesel vs. steam repairs: with a diesel, it takes 3 days to find the problem and 5 minutes to fix it; with a steamer it takes 5 minutes to find the problem and 3 days to fix it.

All that said, I think the main purpose of this project is to generate publicity. If they pull this off, it'd create a lot of interest and hopefully make more money available. With sufficient funding, they could do a "clean sheet" bio-coal fired locomotive design that might be a serious competitor to diesel-electrics.

Is that a snow plow on the front ? We don't use them...

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Uh oh. Something's on fire!















Miller City, Ohio today, on its way to Bellevue, OH for some upcoming special excursions for the Norfolk & Southern employees.

So, you may see 765 prowling around your area this weekend, and thereafter. She'll be busy all summer, getting out to east to Harrisburg, PA and west to St. Louis MO.

Beware the train geeks: "I'd trample you to see the choo-choo"

Awesome pics of NKP 765 AND the NKP "heritage" diesel. Thanks for posting!

I worked for Norfolk Southern in ~1982 at Bellevue and got to help out with several passenger excursions with 765 back then. I got to ride the cab all the way from Fort Wayne to Bellevue when they ferried the engine to Bellevue before the excursions. My wife has a photo of me right after I got home that night looking like I'm in blackface with a big old grin on my face. That had to be one of the best days of my life.

A lot of the older guys I worked with were former NKP men and could tell many tales about the steam days. It's great to see the locomotive on the high iron again.