Have used the GM blue oil in my 04 Raga since new. It has worked perfect at all times.Clutch is very smooth and never changes. Anybody know what the problem in using this oil is? Why have they stopped recommending using this oil?
I am NOT the last word on this, it is what I "think" I know. but, gasgas never really recommended this oil, though many were using it, it was more or less "what some of the best riders were using,' that we shared via word of mouth (web boards too). I too used this oil until almost 2 years ago, when I got my 2008 Raga, I kept using it until my supply was gone (the case I bought was used up). I believe that gasgas-UK, at least, felt that the riders that were using it, just might been the link to fiber clutch plate issues... I am having to surmise a little, but I believe they believe it is something in the synthetic makeup of synthetic ATF? Personally, I think they (gasgas or someone) got a bad batch of plates, but we'll never know, and I won't try to argue with people that probably know more than I do. I now use Yamalube 5/30 engine oil, it feels within, Oh about 2% exactly the same clutch to me... I'm pretty sensitive with my clutch, I adjust it every time I start the bike each day, then adjust again it seems once it warms up more. So, I was really really dreading the change of oil, fearing a change to how it felt, especially since it was going to happen during the "Central Regionals" we have here the ks-mo-ok-tx clubs each year. I had to change after 2 of 4 events. It took one day of practice to see that it was hardly different, if different at all. I keep forgetting to look at that Yamalube, to MAKE SURE, but I believe it is the synthetic motor oil, or semi synthetic, ***BUT*** I cannot recall, it might not be non synthetic? So if I can remember I can check, if it matters to you which one I have, then PM me I guess. I have a lot on my plate right now, I'll try to remember to check which bottles I bought the case of. When I went to yamaha's site for yamalube, it didn't help my memory any LOL.
I think one of the issues is when you combine the transfer case fluid with water (water pump seal goes out) it can damage the clutch plates. This doesn't make alot of sense to me, but I trust Jims judgement (Gas Gas USA) - He sees all the problems from across the entire country, So ive gone back to ATF. My new bike has Type F in it right now and isnt too grabby for me. My old GG didnt like type F at all. Was very grabby and worked much better with the smurf oil. The ATF is dirt cheap - so im happy.
My local GG dealer/trials rider told me to use MOTOERX~ATF SUPER~Dextron 11-D. What ever works for you.
I am a total noob at this, and this is what I was told from a long time trials rider: An auto Type F trans oil the clutch will be much snappier. With a gear oil like Bel Ray gear saver 75 weight oil, the clutch will be slower to engage and less snappy. I use GM Auto-Trak II transer case fluid, and like the way the clutch engages....pretty snappy and no fade even after 3 hours of just playing around on rocks and logs.
Toro, reason is for the discussion thus far though, is {since about 2010???) at least GASGAS of UK had discouraged the use of synthetic, believeing they had a preponderance of evidence that the clutch plates reacted to synthetic trans fluid, AKA or specifically GM autotrak 2 (the blue stuff). I used it as well, up until I ran out of it, last year now I think almost 2 years maybe? I too had no problems, and I had an 04 on the stuff when I started using it, I had an 06 300 pro, then an 08 Raga, & the 2010 RAGA, that used the AT2 without issues that I have been made aware of ever... Keep in mind if I recall correctly, the the GMAT-2 oil was expensive too, and got harder to "get" here in Rural areas, maybe anywhere, I don't know, maybe it is all different where you live and who you buy from. at any rate, being of sound mind, I decided to take heed to what UK's gasgas importer thought.. and quit using it. I got turned onto a new oil as I explained above... BUT Im using Yamaha's Yamalube 0w/30 Semi Synthetic engine oil. (not 5w/30 I thought it said). feels {as stated before by me, here and Trials Central} feels about the same as GM's Auto-Trac2 or however it was spelt. being semi synth and engine oil Im hoping what ever additive in the AT2 had in it, that affected so many bikes worth of clutch plates, are not going to be found in engine oil... your mileage/results may of course, VARY...
Sting, thanks for the explanation. Maybe at the next change, I will try the Bel Ray gear saver and see if I can feel a difference.
Be ready to try different brands and weights! Another quick story: My buddy bought a sherco back a few years ago, then moved (back) to gasgas, he had leftover Bel Ray "something" that he used in the sherco transmission with really good results and feel for an amature rider he was then, as had the previous owner. he put that into the gasgas, the clutch was wierd... I told him to do atf again, then gave him the GM-AT-2 to try quickly after that. of course this was probably in 05-06 or so, so I had not known of the GM AT-2 "issues" as I have admitted to. worked great, so you will have to try things. I dont know if the BelRay was just wrong weight, none of it was worth me trying to "remember" what all it was, other than I knew that his gasgas didnt like it, where as he thought he had some problem that just developed, if you know what I mean... hope that helps more.
FWIW: Be aware - The gear saver 75 may tend to cause drag in cold weather - especially if you use more than 375cc of oil. (window 1/2 full) Best to check it out for your self as it can vary bike to bike.
Good point. Sting, I don't know how cold it gets by you but did you experience any clutch feel change with the GM AT-2 in winter cold weather...in the 30's?
I ran GM on my first Gasser, used, which came with 6 bottles. I found out what it cost, and switched to Chevron Dextron 2-3 ATF. Have since run it for almost 5 years in my 07 Gasser. Clutch is consistent, and is original.
Toro, Im in Kansas, and unlike some places, we ride all year (all 12 months) at our club. I think the only time the club canceled an event was early 90's, we went to bed/woke up to ice on roads, temp was like -18F that morning, decided that they'd hate someone to die trying to get there. I have rode when it was a balmy 4F degress, everything is affected really, but I cannot say clutch was one that even slightly sticks out. Forks, that was another matter, lol the bikes might just as well be like a hardtail at both ends.. If you havent ever seen it, I have given advice on how to start your gasgas pro, especially when the bike is cold (not necessarily just cold temps). since a pro can be a witch to start, due to not enough "choke" built in, usually... I place my bike in 3rd gear, flip on the choke, rock back and forth vigorously which makes the piston go up and down, you have to hear it go up and down. do this 12 times back and forth each, when it is really cold, 6 times in nice weather. it does make it start 1st kick for me, plus you "end" your rocking when you push backwards on the bike the last time, this gives you half or more of a revolution before compression hits you on the kick stroke (hard part of the kick), which seems to help with starter fatigue. when it was 4F, I laid the bike on its side with fuel on, choke on, then also rocked it several time, it started roughly 2nd/3rd kick, I am talking about all 3 of our bikes (mine, dad's, & son's...). I kind of snicker watching people kick 10-20 times at events now, well on the inside I do..
Thanks for that starting advise. I will definately do that when it starts getting cold here in NJ. I have an 09 GG 250 pro, and right now she starts on 1st or 2nd kick when cold after priming a few times.
Yeah the "little bikes" (joking) kick easier, so people dont worry as much, the 300's can wear you out, I know, because I like to watch. lol..
Thanks for the starting tip, I've got a new (to me) 06 280 pro that's taking too many kicks to fire off. Anyone ever try a richer choke jet?
You can get a 80 choke jet for it or just drill out the 60. Works well in the cold and Ok in the hot too.
Would Yamalube or GM Autotrak be good for a Sherco? Ive read some people believe the GasGas and Sherco bikes use the same fiber materials. I just changed the oil in my 2000 2.9 and filled it back up with Rotella synthetic which made no difference in the sticktion. The clutch sticks cold and warm, if the engine isn't running, you can bet the clutch will slowly lock up within 30 secs.
I would try some Maxima MTL 75... and if that doesn't work I would pull the cover and check the plates to see if you have warn clutch basket or an excess of glue between the fiber plates. Some of the older Betas had the fiber plate/glue issue and I know of at least one report of an older Montesa 315R having groves warn into the clutch basket causing the same type of issue. Good luck.
And ensure you're filling the correct quantity. Dunno what that is for your bike, but I know over filling will cause excessive drag.