So has anyone really done it?

We are of like mind. I want a dirt-scooter! Living in the foothills west of Boulder, the fact of my life is riding dirt roads and so I do with my SYM HD-200. First there's the hill going down from our house - its very steep and hard packed with small gravel to make the switch backs even more fun.



With a CVT and going downhill, keep the throttle on and brake at the same time - hence engine braking at slow speeds.

A typical road off the Peak to Peak highway:


While I did not take my scooter on this particular area of F505, on a trek last fall it was either continue through the large cobbles or turn back (and go through the water crossing... again). It started as a trip to Central City, CO to find the Oh My God road, couldn't find it so took the road from the cemetary to Apex to Mamouth gultch road to rollinsville road. We turned some heads that day... all around me were ATVs and dirt bikes.



Ah, here's the route:
http://www.openroadjourney.com/loadroute.asp?rid=2236

I check my scooter after every ride for loose bolts - the rack on the back kept coming loose, so I used locktite. The tires are stock - I'd like some knobbies and finally found a 16-inch slightly knobby tire that will fit, maybe. So, yes, you can ride your scooter on dirt. The keys are go slow and go carefully.

Based on my experience, this is the magic. Wheels + motor have accomplished many things over time.

I've taken my scooters on some rough-ish dirt roads. The downside is that there is pretty much zero rear suspension travel, and your feet are in front of you (not right under your hips), so it is a lot harder to put your weight on your feet and get your butt light in the seat than it is on a dirtbike where your feet are directly under you. So when you hit even a small bump, pretty much every bit of force is transmitted directly to your spine. For me, not a comfortable experience.

(Notice how in the photo above of the Vespa on the P-D, there is a different geometry than on a Ruckus -- the rider is probably a really small guy, which helps, but even so he is able to sit with his feet more under him than in front of him. The more you can sit like that, the better your scooter will work offroad.)

That said, as long as you don't mind slowing way, way down, and you can work around the really limited ground clearance, something light and small like a Ruckus could probably go some pretty surprising places.

My dealer told me that alot people who buy these end up "off-roading" them. I can't imagine them being great in the dirt, but they are VERY light (140 lbs wet), the tires are fat and there's not much to break off.

http://www.1coolride.com/tomosarrowr.html

I'm thinking the SYMBA might be fun on the dirt. Throw some nobbies on, change the exhaust to get a little more kick from the 101cc engine, it would be a blast!



It has footpegs and 4- speed semi-auto tranny!

People in 3rd world countries ride scooters on all kinds of bad roads and trails.

If you feel the price is worth it...:eek1 Frankly I'm a little leery about Carter's pricing practices, the SYMBA has a MSRP of $2699, which is way over the top for even the nostalgia aspect. You could find a decent dual sport used for that price.

Alright, here's the down-low on auto-scoots and backroading.


1. Shock travel. Stock shocks SUCK. On smaller scoots the shock travel averages 2", larger scoots are marginally better.

2. Clutch. Larger cvt scoots' belt cases are ventilated, unlike the smaller ones which aren't. Good, right? Wrong. Dust gets into the belt case and coats EVERYTHING. Shortens belt life, variator and roller life, cruds up the clutch, grinds away where the clutch pads grab the bell housing, and eats up the clutch bearings.

3. Weight distribution. Dude, it's a scoot, the weight is under and behind you and very low....can make off-roading a BITCH.

Now, yeah, the small fatty tires are awesome, to a point...but for off roading skinnier is better.

Not that I think you CAN'T off road a scoot, it's just that they simply aren't designed for it and so have many, many more failure points than a dirtbike.


With all that said, I roll my Big Ruckus on just about every type of surface you can imagine. Grassy goat tracks are the absolute WORST. It also has a linked braking system....and it's hell on gravel if you do not know how to operate it. So bad, in fact, that one of the BR riders on last year's Cannonball Run crashed on gravel because of it. And this guy has 50+ years of riding and racing experience. I live on a gravel road with dust so fine it makes fly-ash look coarse. Because of that I have clean out the belt case and clean out the clutch each time I change the oil. And, back in '05 when I bought it, I made a K&N air filter for it. 8 months later K&N finally sells one specifically for the BR...but that didn't help me at the time.

So, can you off-road a scoot? Of course you can. Just be prepared to fix the little annoying things that sort of abuse is gonna break.

I ended up buying that Big Ruckus from Ilmostro - he never opened the transmission case after the Fall tour. Holy moly, it was full of dirt!

This was on a slight uphill. Dirt like talcum powder due to little rain. A bitch getting it over those logs. Notice how I had to start stacking smaller branches in front of the big log so I could get the bike over it. Felt like I was in the Camel Trophy or something...

Also drove it into an overgrown field near my house. Would have been fun, but about 50 feet into the field, branches got jammed between the kickstarter lever and the frame.

A modern auto scooter couldn't be worse...

I see a pair of nesting ramps that you could carry along.....small ones.

Uncomfortable is my specialty so that is not at all a deterrent!

Great points about the weight balance and foot position. That would translate into a slower trip over rough terrain which is ok with me. I have noticed a few folks adding re-positioned pegs on Ruckus scooters for standing in the dirt.

I have heard of a couple guys that road old 1980's Puch's. Link

That might be able to help you.

I've road a ruckus before, it seems to be good. *I only road some loose gravel, and some fire roads.

I've taken my Ruckus (50cc) off road on both mountain bike trails and open ground.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" /><o></o>
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The front suspension has a VERY short travel, as far as off-roading goes, it might as well be a rigid fork. <o></o>
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Mud and loose dirt are not a problem with the wide, aggressively treaded stock tires, but the air intake is low, and pointed down, so you have to watch out for deep water.<o></o>
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I've tackled some rather steep, loose dirt, hills that I really wasn't sure I'd be able to make, but as long as you keep yourself moving at a steady pace, it can climb. <o></o>
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I've also gone over hard packed, run-off rut filled fields and hills. It really doesn't like those very much. The suspension can't make up for the hard surface.<o></o>
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I'd come across small trees across the trails that couldn't be gotten around due to dense brush, but I was able to get the scoot over single-handed by lifting the front end over first, then rocking forward and carrying the rear end over.<o></o>
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One weak point I found through lots of curb hopping, is that the exhaust header is rather vulnerable as it exits the bottom of the engine, and I eventually broke the welds. It's protected against small scrapes by the plastic skid plate under the gas tank (in the floorboard,) but the plastic doesn't cover the exhaust itself, so if you're going over an edge it's at risk.<o></o>


Some pix-

Are there any shock upgrades for the ruckus that could help out with suspension travel?

There are several rear shock options on battle scooter.
I'm not sure about the front--maybe a whole new fork is needed?

The front is the one that seems to bottom out easiest on my Ruckus.

I AM POSITIVE that

some Australian has done it and lived.

Those guys are...uh...given to adventure.

(am I tactful, or what?)

I'll back up the riding position con, though the weight bit can be worked through (somewhat). Ended up going down, and later back up, about 4 miles of gravel road that might as well have been a cross between the Appalachian Trail and a forestry service/logging road. About shook my teeth outta my head. My arse hurt for a while after getting off that stretch. The trail, I mean, road was a bunch of switchbacks with just enough straight stretches to lull you into a false sense of security.

Some scooters have passenger footrests that might work for some manner of standing, or you can try to put your feet far enough back on the floorboard to lift up a little...I didn't have much luck with that. If it had been just gravel or whatever, it would've been fine. I've got several years of cross-country mountain bicycling experience, so I adapted quickly. The CVT downside (going into neutral) is easily dealt with by light braking and occasionally gunning the engine to engage the gears.

The part that killed me the worst? 10" wheels on washboard road. Yeah, going a little faster so the wheels ride over the bumps better helps some, but.....
Screw that.

This may be of interest, a French site on the Vespa PX200 competing in the 1980 Paris-Dakar, go to; www.dakardantan.com ,then go to Le Forum, then go to Search (Rechercher) "vespa". Hopefully you will now see L'epopee Vespa. There you'll find some interesting photos, I can't read French so some of you may enjoy the dialogue too.