Didn't stop in time

Discussion in 'Face Plant' started by domingo3, Dec 30, 2013.

  1. domingo3

    domingo3 Been here awhile

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    First of all, I thank God that I came away with only bruises. Second, I am thankful that the insurance found the cager 100% at fault and paid for my totaled bike. Still I wonder if there's something I could have done to avoid the accident.

    THE ACCIDENT

    I was riding home on a downtown 25mph street, with two lanes each way shortly after sunset. There is a median in between the traffic lanes with small trees, so view of oncoming traffic is somewhat obscured. I was going straight through a green light when a car suddenly appeared in front of me. They were from the oncoming traffic lane and turning left. I hit the brakes, but the distance was too short. I realized that I couldn't stop in time and just went straight into the side of the car. It all happened quickly, but I've replayed the scenario back in my head many times.

    What could I have done differently? Probably could have braked harder. I don't believe either wheel was close to locking up. I did the advanced rider course a couple years ago and got a "perfect" score, but haven't practiced hard braking since. I've never done a "stoppie". I had always thought of that as a reckless squid thing to do, but now am wondering if its something I should practice/try.

    Should I have tried to turn the bike? I don't think I had clearance to go behind the car, maybe I did? I've heard about people saying they laid their bike down. Could/Should I have somehow attempted this? Converting a collision to a single bike accident doesn't work out well for insurance purposes, but if that could mean less likelihood of a serious injury, it's definitely a consideration.

    It's been a few weeks since the accident, and I haven't gotten a replacement bike yet. I'd appreciate any tips on how to think about this as an opportunity to ride safer. Hopefully I never have that situation again, but feel better trying to learn from it.

    Thanks
    #1
  2. n3nman

    n3nman Been here awhile

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    Do not know if you were in the right (further from the cager) or the left lane of the two lane, but that right lane will give you more time to see each other. You will also be in a better position to "see" it happening. Better braking Yes. But most of this is a head game. When you first noticed the limited visibility because of the tree line you should then compensate as best you can. Cover brakes, slow down, shift lanes. Let your head keep you from needing super skills, but practice those as well. IMHO. Glad you walked away with not much harm
    #2
  3. steelerider

    steelerider Southafricanamerican

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    "I had to lay the bike down" is nothing but an excuse for "I crashed". So no, that is not an option. No course anywhere teaches anyone how to intentionally crash their bike. You are far better off keeping it upright to maximize your braking ability. If someone starts telling you that you need to "lay it down next time" walk away. Here are a few tips:
    1. Intersections are dangerous. Never take anything for granted. A green light for you means nothing, except that traffic is allowed to flow. When you approach, place your bike in a position that you can most clearly see ahead into the intersection. If there is a car waiting to turn left, you need to plan ahead and be on high alert immediately. Cover your brake. On a two lane road, placing yourself in the right lane will give you more space and a bigger buffer zone from a left turner.
    2. Try to place yourself (momentarily) next to a vehicle that is traveling through the intersection as well. You are essentially using that car as a buffer, and a left turner will not likely turn left in front of am oncoming car which they are able to see. As soon as you are through, move away, do not stay in the cars blind spot.
    3. Now you also understand the value of practicing max/controlled braking as well. You may have been able to avoid the crash entirely by stopping a few feet shorter.
    Good luck.
    #3
  4. 2000RSV

    2000RSV Go Fast, Go Long Supporter

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    ABS allows you to maximize braking without fear of locking up. Lay'n it down is just silly. Chrome on asphalt has a much lower friction coefficient than rubber on asphalt. Although, I suspect you put that in your original post for a bit of humor.

    Maximum braking practice may have helped. Glad you walked away and they found 100% fault with the cager.
    #4
  5. k5mitch

    k5mitch Long timer

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    What was your lane positioning? If you're in the leftmost lane, keeping to the right of the lane will increase the chance that someone would see you... that is, unless there is a vehicle in front of you, in which case staying to the right makes you invisible and then you should keep to the left. Many variables here. It could be your outcome was the best.

    Do you keep a finger or two on the brake lever?
    #5
  6. Spina

    Spina wannabe motorcyclist

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    These seems like obvious things, but it's actually good to read them and try put them at use. Thanks for the reminder!
    #6
  7. Tallbastid

    Tallbastid Stay Grateful

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    While normally riding, do you use your front brake for most braking? I've read in proficient motorcycling, that those who continuously use front brakes for routine stops will reach for it first, as a matter of habit, in an emergency stop. In many cases, this can slow the bike down substantially quicker than if the rider were to have to remember to use the front brake lever, after already engaging the rear.

    After ten years of dirt, this was a big change for me, but after a few thousand miles on road it's become habit, to the point I need to un-remember it when I'm on the trail.
    #7
  8. husqvarna

    husqvarna Been here awhile

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    Here in the southern part of darkest Africa, about one in three drivers has a "bought" (forged/obtained illegally without a test etc) licence and has little clue about traffic lights and signs. Now add assorted maniacs in mini bus taxis, drunk pedestrians etc and you get around 208 fatalities per 100 000 vehicles per year. Wiki tells me the US is about 15.

    My point, here one tries to remember to glance left and right (we drive on the left) even travelling through green traffic lights and junctions where you have right of way. This is particularly on pull away noting that a runaway truck (unroadworthy & unlicenced young driver) recently killed around 22 people by barelling through an intersection as the lights turned for the opposite lanes see

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJIfY-5Vf5o
    #8
  9. billmags

    billmags Scoot Jockey

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    It's hard to say from this angle what you could have done differently and whether practiced braking or counter steering would have helped. Obviously you reduced your speed enough to where you weren't seriously injured- and that's the main thing!
    Laying down your bike on purpose is never a replacement for reducing your velocity. I say you've done good in that respect.

    2014 will be better. Treat every intersection as if it has a flashing yellow, and ride defensively.
    #9
  10. cliffy109

    cliffy109 Long timer

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    If you're not sure if you applied maximum brakes, you need to practice more... and possibly buy a bike with ABS. I know a lot of people don't like ABS and I understand their position on the matter. On the street however, it really can be a life saver. When and if ever presented with an emergency (no matter who's fault it is), you can grab every bit of brake with confidence that you are doing the right thing. Pull with every bit of strength you have and let the computer do its job in figuring out how not to screw things up.

    That confidence thing is big. If your rear wheel locks, do you let off? How about the front? Will you high side if you do? In the middle of an emergency is no time to be thinking about this or the conditions of the road, or how much brake force will send you over the handlebars. With a modern ABS system, you grab and hold and everything else is focused on keeping yourself upright.

    I understand that some will argue that this will lead to bad habits. It might. I understand those who don't like to rely on technology although that's a funny comment from a person posting anything on the internet. I understand off-roaders being afraid of what it will do on a washboard road. Those are all valid concerns. In my opinion and for my riding, ABS makes a lot of sense and your collision, while not your fault, is an illustration of how ABS can tilt things in your favor.
    #10
  11. gearheadE30

    gearheadE30 @LC8Adventures

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    ABS is still a band-aid though. Practice those hard controlled stops and it will strengthen the reflex of pulling the lever in a controlled manner. You can actually stop faster without engaging ABS.

    I've never really tried it, but I don't think ABS will prevent you from doing a stoppie, assuming you have that much traction at the front wheel. ABS only kicks in if the speed delta is large enough or if the wheel speed suddenly goes to zero. Since the former is a calibrated threshold somewhat above the maximum ability of the bike, you could probably still go over the bars, which doesn't help you slow down much... and why practicing in a parking lot or something is so useful. If the parking lot is an imperfect surface where you can practice locking up the front, so much the better.
    #11
  12. NJ-Brett

    NJ-Brett Brett Supporter

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    I think you should have seen the car coming.
    If you expected a car to do what it did, would the outcome have been the same?

    Any intersection I enter, I just assume a car could turn or not stop (texting) and I look for it. I trust nothing that can move.
    Slow down and LOOK.

    If you enter an intersection and just look ahead and assume its clear, you are bound to get hit, and one where you can not see if something is comming is a red flag warning.
    #12
  13. advNZer?

    advNZer? Long timer

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    how about your visibility?Lights on,conspicuious clothing?.Were you "hiding" behind another vehicle ,obscuring the cars view of you?
    #13
  14. steelerider

    steelerider Southafricanamerican

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    This is great advice.
    #14
  15. VStromNC

    VStromNC DNS/DNF

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    You can also cut your reaction time quite a bit by learning to ride with two fingers on the front brake lever. This technique can also help you ride faster since you can slow down that much quicker.


    Jon
    #15
  16. 74C5

    74C5 Long timer

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    If you don't practice threshold braking, you simply cannot expect yourself to do it. The skill is highly perishable.
    The only alternative is to go ABS.
    #16
  17. Omarius

    Omarius Long timer

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    The latest ABS systems have rear wheel lift mitigation. So yeah, it'll prevent you from doing stoppies.

    My 2 cents is this: Just because the speed limit is 25, doesn't mean it's safe to travel at 25. If there are trees obscuring people's vision, or lots of congestion, or any other road hazard that may increase the likelihood of someone running into you, then take those things into account and adjust your speed accordingly.

    I'm reminded of this commercial:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KazMCcdAUKQ
    #17
  18. advNZer?

    advNZer? Long timer

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    ^^^^^this
    its not how fast you CAN go or MAY go its how fast you SHOULD go
    #18
  19. dasrider

    dasrider Been here awhile

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    This sounds exactly like my accident on my old SV1000S 3 years ago. Putting through a 35mph intersection and an older fellow decided to pull in front of me from oncoming traffic while making a left turn - whammo!

    - err, nevermind, just read this accident happened a few weeks ago...
    #19
  20. Scott_PDX

    Scott_PDX Leisure Engineer

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    Besides the braking issue, what are you doing about standing out to other traffic with your gear/light set up? Do you have daytime running lights? How about a white helmet - they stand out more than any other color. Are you wearing hi-viz riding gear? I think it's hard to avoid all left hand turners, but making yourself easier to see in the first place might help.

    I try to practice "panic" breaking every few rides, but probably need to more. You really can stop these bikes in much shorter space that you think, but it's takes practice.

    All that being said, you did the most important thing - that being travelling at a reasonable rate of speed on that kind of road. Walking away with bruises only, is a success in my book. Also analyzing the situation and working to avoid it in the future are great ways to mitigate future injuries. Keep it up.
    #20