Where the f*ck is the bike?

Glad you are ok Joe! When I started riding off the pavement, in the 1950s, the mantra was to "crash on the other side of the obstacle." Then I got into observed trials; the obstacles got a lot bigger and I discovered that it hurt too much to "crash on the other side of the obstacle." So I trained myself to be able to stop on top on the obstacle - with the forward momentum dissipated, I had time to decide how to proceed. Now that I'm old and out of shape, that tactic comes in very handy! Good luck on future explorations!

OMG! Man, you were one lucky guy to be pretty much unscathed after that wreck. I wrecked my bike back in January going 5mph, and broke two ribs and severely strained my collarbone/shoulder so bad, I thought it was broke! What kind of protection for your ribs were you wearing? I am going to invest in it. Glad you made it out alive.

Dang man you made me jump out of seat when you went over the cliff. Scared the sh#@ out me. I just knew you was a goner. Glad your okay though, now we get to see some more heart stopping videos.

Some things inspired by the thread:

I guess most of us know that feeling -- the moment of no return, this is going to cause some damage, etc. But I doubt many of us have experienced it quite like that.

I know so well that full-body-blow stunned feeling. It's really hard to describe -- another poster mentioned his snow-boarding accident. In the old northern myths, they'd say you were whelmed with great force. It's just about paralyzing even if you don't break anything. I looped a fully-loaded KLR on a water bar in Vermont a few summers ago and landed square on my ass/hip/kidney; all I could do for 5 minutes was roll around and groan. My riding buddy thought I was milking it -- until a day later when I showed him the eggplant bruise on my ass that was about the size of a turkey-tray.

Never yet have I scheduled a long trip -- the most we've done is 10 days. But even after a day or two, a kind of fatigue can creep up on you. It's the opposite of being over-excited and forgetting that you're way out in the willy-wags, gunning it too much. There are whole sections of trail that I have no memory of at the end of the day -- even if you are totally concentrating, your mind wears out, dumps data, dozes a little.

And that reminds me of just how much mental state has to do with successful riding. I've had to let a friend ride my bike over a section at the end of the day that I could do in a second in the morning. On our last trip, I was riding the aforementioned KLR and my friends were on WR250's. It's around 330 when the difference between wrestling a 650 through muddy waterbogs and wet woods trails and doing the same on a 250 really starts to show up. Had to have one of the guys tackle a 20 yard wet slash and roots climb because my brain was just too worn out to confront the thought of having to pick that fucker up one more time if I dumped it.

Your having been sick -- enough to lay up for a day -- HAD to have been a factor, maybe a major one, in this crash. I don't think you froze -- I just think your brain didn't catch up to the reality of the moment fast enough. You seemed to me to be moving like a guy who thought 1) he could save it and 2) had time and space to do so. You were over the cliff before your brain caught up to the action. I bet 9/10 or ever 19/20 times you make that climb with no trouble. Mindspace just matters so much in riding and fatigue is a sneaky bitch.

Crashing on the trail: Our last big one, we were three. That's a good number; one to stay, one to fetch. We too were bailed by a well-prepared EMS crew from the nearest town -- they had an "Argo" to stretcher my buddy out on (spiral fracture, tibia), and a "dispersed wilderness EMT" who arrived on the scene with his kit about 45minutes after we called it in. The year before we were only two and I had a serious moment of panic when the other guy biffed it over an unseen rock on a logging road (we were going too fast). Thankfully, he was just angry, not hurt.

Last thought: boy does luggage make a difference or what? Mine's 2 different bikes depending upon the load.

Good job on not dying. I'm really happy to hear that you're still in the game.

no kidding... my stomach turned for a sec... :eek1



glad you are ok!!!!

Wow! Epic video. Glad that you are Ok.

What he said and what countless others have said. I was nauseated until about page 12! I am in medical sales and have seen lots of gory bits and pieces, but watching it happen from the GoPro made me pretty sick. I felt like I was you.

It actually surprised me that the video made me sick because I have watched surgeries and all and did not get sick. Hearing you moan and seeing what you saw was a bit much. I thought for sure at the beginning that you had a broken ankle or leg the way you were clutching your leg.

I do have a question for you, were you surprised at how the SPOT 911 call was responded to? I was expecting a flight out, not a 70-90 minute wait for a quad and a backboard. I wonder what kind of response you would have had if your riding partner had not gone to the highway and dialed 911 on a cell phone. Is that what brought the local response? If it had been a 911 SPOT message only would they have checked with the locals to see if they could assist in which case the response probably would have been the same as what you actually received?


Also, did you have to pay for the SPOT 911 service at all? I carry the insurance for that in case I would need to use it, but sure as hell hope I don't ever need to. Also need to reevaluate how/where to carry my SPOT. Guess I better read up again on what my SPOT 911 gets me.

Thanks for sharing.

I'm not familiar with how SPOT calls 911, but I can tell you with certainty that SPOT is not going to dispatch a helicopter. All 911 calls are ultimately routed through the local dispatch center, and local emergency services are dispatched. Med flight dispatch requires a specific request by First Responders or Ambulance crew, and that's probably not going to happen until the first responders are on scene and have assessed that life is at stake.
Surprising to most people, there are a lot of circumstances where a flight just can't or won't happen...weather and terrain are huge factors. And in remote circumstances in rugged terrain, such as this one, you're probably waiting for something like a quad and backboard no matter what; even if a med flight is warranted, you'll likely need to be first transported to a suitable landing zone via ambulance, quad or even hand-carry.

I was mainly thinking that such a remote area would would warrant a flight if 911 were dispatched via a Spot. If it had been an immediate life threatening situation, it seems to me that the ground response of 70-90 minutes was kind of long. I don't know the area but perhaps to dispatch the flight team and chopper may have been just as long.

Joe, still curious if the billed you for any of it and if they did, did you have the SPOT insurance??

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Unfortunately, true. Group I know was riding with a person who had a medical emergency (not bike related). Multiple spot 911s and new InReach (two way text) requests for air evac. Unfortunately it took the first responders 2 hours to get there and at that point there wasn't anything left to do Pretty tough experience for all those involved.

Something to keep in mind when on remote travels.

Sorry to hear that. Maybe a SAT phone would be good to have so that you can personally tell them how bad the air evac is needed?

That is a good idea too, but just because the caller says it is needed, doesn't mean they'll fly. They're not flying unless they get a request from a medical professional - that isn't likely to happen until said medical professional is on scene... Also they're probably not landing without a said professional on the ground with a verified safe landing zone. But the information you give by that call can make a huge difference in the response that follows.

And again, just because a medical professional requests them does not mean they'll actually come (availability, weather, landing zone, etc are all potential red lights). We recently had one example of a badly burned individual at my workplace, which happens to be rather remote location, but with a team of first responders on site. We even have an established safe landing zone on site. Life flight was definitely warranted, and was requested by the first responders within minutes of the event. However, the helicopter could not take off due to fog. So it was a long wait for the ambulance, followed by a series of long ambulance rides between hospitals. Sometimes the best option is not an option...

The absolute best thing you can do if you plan to ride in remote areas, is ride with partners and get some medical training of your own (first aid & CPR at a minimum, first responder even better). Be prepared to stabilize yourself (if you can) or riding partner(s) while you wait for help. And be prepared to wait a LONG time. The upside is if you're a first responder, you can call for med flight.

The issue in remote areas in the west is that the places where it would be really nice to have helicopter evac readily available they are least likely. Search and Rescue is generally run by counties (often the sheriff with volunteers) and the cost of a chopper is prohibitive. There are quite a few counties many times the size of Rhode Island with populations less than 10,000 and much of the land is federal. So, no tax base to fund services. Any helicopter is going to be state police or Nationl Guard and might be several hours flight away.

70-90 minute response is amazing in the desert. In lots of places a 911 call to your home might be 45 minutes or more.

I have no illusions that my SPOT or a sat phone would get me a 30 minute response. My hope is that it might turn a 24 hour wait into 6-12 hours. Or at the very least make it easier to find my body.

Rural EMS have plenty to do responding to the problems of locals. A call from a distant call center that their customer, let's call him "Beemer Bill" (Bob's cousin), sent a call for help for unspecified reasons is not a priority above a sick kid or car accident. There have been a number of cases of SPOT users crying wolf nd that does not help. Look for the story about the hikers in the Grand Canyon a few years ago.

The bottom line is that a call to the local sheriffs personal phone and him summoning a helicoptor to come get still might take 3-5 hours to get you help. That is the reality. Ride accordingly and bring skilled friends you trust.

Nothing is fool proof and you're right, everything is slowed to the speed of the weakest link, and that is often the resources on the ground. Having an on-star like system that automatically senses an accident and dispatches help is no good if help is one sheriff deputy and he's swamped on some other priority. If your emergency is related to some sort of widespread event (like severe weather) you'll be one of many seeking help. One of the hazards of riding giant dirt bikes in the middle of nowhere is that you're on your own to a certain extent. That is also one of the appeals for many here.

I personally know Beemer Bob and here is his thoughts on SPOT. Forgive me if this is 205.

If you're too lazy to read this, it basically says it took a long time to get help due to the ground resources. Bob is still a believer in SPOT because they did exactly what they said they would do.

I carry a SPOT and I even have an PLB registered with the NOAA. But its also good to be self sufficient and avoid the need for help.

I was recently riding in the Big Bend area of Texas and was told by a local that the ambulance will NOT leave the pavement. I'm guessing the sheriff has some sort of trucks that could be used to transport an injured person to the pavement, but that means help is a very long time in coming. If your problem is severe, you're a long way from help.

So, the short answer is ride with a doctor and have provisions to handle your own emergency.

A GS set up as a MASH unit.

I had read most of what Bob had on his blog in this thread:
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=613416

His conclusions about the SPOT were accurate and Informative. The rants he made there and in other places about the incompetence of local search and rescue were uncalled for. I am pretty sure that the average income in McKinley County where he crashed is less than the cost of his GS.

You are 100% right about self reliance. Need to find me some doctor friends to ride with....MD kind of doctors not PhD kind like I ride with now.

Hi Joe! First of all, I have to say WOW! Thank god you walked away from this with just a bruise. Well, maybe two bruises? Physical and maybe pride? Thank for sharing your experience with us all and hopefully I have used your story to convince my family to throw in SPOT as part of christmas shopping list as I prepare for my RTW.

2 months before your crash, I climbed up that hill with just one hand! Before the creek bed (after swasey cabin), I had a bad crash I injured my left hand and warped the handlebar with right end moved forward and left end pushed backward. It was difficult for me to steer the bike with one hand on a messed up handlebar riding through sandy creek bed (I noticed it was a bit solid in your video because it rained pervious day the dirt was a bit solid?) Once I made it out of the pass I was so thrilled I screamed my lung out as if I had just won because doing that with one hand on a warped handlebar was no easy feat.

With all the debates about technique riding.. Well, sometime the riding technique doesn't mean nothing when you hit certain point of being in a tough situation. It is easy to say what was done wrong when you should do this or that but it is a whole different ballgame when a person is in middle of a rough riding.. From the look at your video, you apparently almost lose control when you went cross first rock you were holding onto the handlebar then on second bump, you made a hard left turn so you don't crash into the wall on your right you had no choice but to attempt to balance yourself and your bike by going straight(over the cliff) and probably pick up a little on throttle (which is a common rule of maintaining the speed when making a left or right turn or at curve). I believe you were in unavoidable situation that none of the off-road training school can help you with. Other option would be to just crash right there without going over the cliff but I believe that is usually the option many riders don't want to consider.

Please note that I have read up to Page 14 so I missed the rest of the debate up to this point. I'm just glad you were fortunately enough to walk away with just a bruise. I'll heed the advice if I ever walk away from accident like this to buy lottery ticket right away, and if I win I shall donate partial of funds to ADVrider.

Nice when it runs out of gas with a bad fuel strip

That was painful to watch on a big screen. Glad you are ok.