Do you know of a lawsuit concerning clutch splines?

In one regard, I have to respect Bobby for having the balls to be in this forum. It could be a real powder keg for him. Not sure how many other dealers venture in here, but Bobby has been fairly even keeled in his posts... I would have to expect most dealers to be on the defensive, and I expect BMW NA would not always appreciate his presence here... That said, I have only been hanging out in here a year and have gleaned a wealth of knowledge on my bike, which I really don't know where I would have got it otherwise I love this place...

I specifically stated R1150GS spline failures fitting on one hand as your scenario concurs that statement.

To the OP/Land. So no comment on if BMW/Dealer offered a full refund on the shaft spline repair or if you accepted and cashed such a check/credit?

No doubt I'm a cheap prick. I won't pay for dealer service, so I do it myself. But despite doing the spline lube once a year (about 12-15,000 miles per year), I'm on my fourth clutch and third input shaft in 84,000 miles.

And no, I'm not looking to sue them. But I won't be buying another R model BMW. I've had three BMW bikes and two of them had spline failures. Don't like the odds.

Terry

So, why won't the dealer honor the warranty? The repair they did did not last for the duration of the warranty.

Bobby, I haven't received a check or credit from or reached an agreement with BMW NA at this point. If you are aware of how these things work, you'll understand if I don't elaborate further.

Depending on how one counts things like truck rentals, car rentals, tow trucks and lodging, the failure of my original transmission will leave me with $2000-$4000 in out-of-pocket expenses and a bike that needs a major repair to be rideable. I will be using a trailer to pick up my motorcycle from the dealer, then I will decide whether or not to spend money on a repair, sell the bike as a project/parts bike, or part it out myself.

Thanks,
Chris

You said cheap. What else are you replacing besides the friction disk and shaft? If you replace the defective part, you'll actually fix the bike.

Dibs on the RID

BMW NA made the decision not to fix the transmission under warranty because the transmission came from a parts recycler/"junkyard" and the condition of the donor bike could not be confirmed.

The transmission was advertised as coming from "a running, shifting" bike. The seller has a good reputation. In fact, the seller was recommended by my BMW dealer as a good source for a used transmission. Your BMW dealer probably has a relationship with the seller. If you ask for a recommendation on where to get used BMW parts on this board, the name of this recycler will be in one of the first few responses. I say all that to point out that I did not just go down to any old junkyard and yank the first 6-speed tarnsmission I came across.

We'll see.

Boy, I'd love to. But I don't know what part that would be. I checked the runout on the "flywheel" (clutch housing). It wasn't bad. What does that leave? Transmission housing? Engine case?
When it failed the first time under warranty, the dealer changed just the shaft and disk. If more should have been done, why didn't they do it?

Terry

Okay, after some rereading, I think I see the complexity here. The input shaft was replaced by a different dealer than the one who has denied the warranty coverage. It's still not right.

What was it? If you don't remember, what would you consider bad?

Having worked as a mechanic and a car dealer I had the plessure of dealing with something similar.

Individual brought in a car, and a transmission. Transmission came from a well known source atleast locally, and had a warranty for if I recall 2 months, sort of a "run in" warranty, you get to see that in the form they sold it it atleast worked.

Anyway, we installed this transmission the guy had it 4 or 5 months and then it stopped going into second gear.

Well the guy was upset at us as the mechanic, and upset at the scrapyard. But fact of the matter is he was trying to save money and cut out the middle man, and the part was faulty. We had no choice but to tell the individual that we hadn't sourced the part, or given any sort of warranty as to the parts longevity. He paid far less than what it would have cost to rebuild a transmission to get it from the scrap yard, and he runs the risk.

In your case, you sourced a used part that is likely at fault for the failures, I would try to work a different used transmission out of them. OR did you save your factory transmission and how well trashed was it?

Finally re: class action lawsuits. Remington got sued because some of their shotgun barrels were bursting. Remington lost a class action lawsuit to the tune of 17+ million $, and so owners were able to send in with their serial numbers and get a settlement check. The rub, these checks were less than 20$/person. Remington didn't sent out new barrels, nor did they recall the shotguns, replace the shotguns, pay you when your shotgun blew up. And 20 bucks doesn't buy you a new shotgun or barrel.

So even if there were a class action lawsuit, in all likelihood there won't be a recall, or a warranty, and it wouldn't really apply to your situation. I think the number of high mile BMW bikes on the road today really is a testiment to how durable overall the platform is.

I wish you luck, and really do suggest taking it up with the scrapyard, atleast if you can get a different used transmission at a good discount it would be worth it, test that trans see if it throws an input shaft.

Here is where your story has no bearing (ha ha) on what Land has written. A BMW dealer disassembled the transmission and replaced the input shaft. In the process, a Master Certified BMW mechanic is going to examine all the parts and recommend other repairs that are needed. In other words they have now taken ownership of any issues with that gearbox. Since they are a BMW franchise, their work carries a two year parts and labor warranty which is honored by all other BMW franchises or as it turns out, it isn't.

Anorak,

You have saved me quite a bit of typing on more than one occasion in this thread. Thanks. Should we ever meet up, :dg and are my treat.

Chris

Mine measured 0.15mm from highest to lowest points. I found a thread where you said that you measured 0.2mm on a bike that was having problems and you changed it with a new one that read 0.1mm

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=374788&highlight=spline+runout

Mine was halfway between your "bad" and "new". I used a file to trim mine down to about 0.05mm highest to lowest. That was just a few months ago though so I don't know if it will help. Not holding my breath though.
It didn't seem like it was worth just buying a new one since there doesn't seem to be a limit on the runout and no reason to believe that a new would be much better that my 0.15mm. Your new one read 0.1mm.....

What else could cause this besides transmision or engine cases?

Terry

But what you have to add is are they perpetually on the hook?

If its the transmission case being wonky that is throwing input shafts, are they then to install a new input shaft and peripheral work every year till something out of warranty gives it up? When the transmission the bike shipped with didn't throw a shaft in 40K miles and numerous years?

If the transmission is part number 23007677009 then you could buy a whole transmission for 3 grand. And then expect a 2 year warranty.

Your grand slam 100% ideal solution is obviously compensation for time, the faulty transmission the part going out etc. I don't think that's going to happen for you.

No. Just for the time they warranted the repair. Two years.

I have stated my opinion on the transmission cases (and have acknowledged the worth of opinions, so you can save yourself some typing ).

It was actually just under 66K on the original transmission. The cause of its problem was never really diagnosed, so I don't know what went wrong with it at that mileage. (The 44K and change is what I put on it in the first two years that I had the bike. I loved putting those miles on.)

I expected a two-year warranty when I was told that I had a two-year warranty in July when I paid for the repair at a BMW dealer. And I confirmed that expectation when I called BMW NA from the side of the road last month.

If I had bought a new transmission for $3k (I thought they were $4K, but I haven't looked in a while, so I'll go with your figure ), with dealer installation, I would be just about even in terms of money spent, but I would have had a lot less frustration and aggravation and wasted travel time. What I really should have insisted on is a rebuild of my original transmission. Hindsight and all that.

That would be great. And I want 7 gold-plated GS Adventures that will last a bazillion miles with no maintenance, and I want them delivered by a bevy of beauties clothed only in bazillion dollar bills. That would be close to a "grand slam 100% ideal solution."

Look, obviously, you don't know me. Even if you did, I would appreciate your not attempting to put words in my mouth. Fair enough?

What I really want is for this to have never happened. It did, so I am attempting to weigh all of my options and come to the best resolution of this very aggravating situation. I truly hope that you never have to go through what I have gone through with this situation.

All the best,
Chris

How many people realize that work done by the dealer often has a parts and labor warranty unlike doing it yourself? Ducati does it too and I'm sure others.

Question for Anton:

I'm sure I will have to repair my splines again in about another 20,000 miles at the rate the new splines and clutch plate are wearing out. I didn't have the tools or skill to check for misalignment the first time I fixed it and should have replaced the entire clutch housing, like you recommend, instead of just the clutch plate. ( Didn't know the recommendation at the time. ) So, the next time I do the repair, is there any need to try to check for misalignment or simply replace the entire clutch assembly, input shaft, main input shaft bearing, and necessary seals. Would this give me confidence enough to keep the bike, or should I just abandon it.

Thanks for all your help and posts on this forum and others.

Alton