KYMCO GTi 300

Any impact on fuel economy?

Was the 492 BV ever available in the US? It was listed on Pio's web page for a while but I'm not sure they ever had them for sale here.
As for gas mileage with light rollers, as I said elsewhere, if anything my mileage improved slightly after I lightened the stock rollers.

Lighter sliders raise revs at WOT and at speeds up to 50-55mph on
this scooter, however, at anything above 60mph your revs drop by
500 (this is only with Dr Pulley sliders, not with regular round rollers).

So.. if you do a lot of WOT around town and don't go over 50mph often
you'll probably have worse MPG figures.

If you're not heavy on throttle (which is hard to do since the acceleration
improvement is addictive) and use the bike outside of city limits over 55
mph, then you'll probably get better MPG figures.

This is common sense. In real world, in my case, one cancels out the other
so I had pretty much the same MPG figures all the time.

Bigger windscreen and a big topcase had a bigger impact then lighter sliders,
but I could still manage 71MPG at a constant 70mph (which was at 6000
revs with sliders, and 6500 with stock rollers).

The GTi300 seems to come out the winner when compared to the BV350. On paper, the GTi300, at $5399, is only $300 less than the BV350. But in reality, the GTi300 is almost $2000 less, because of all the exorbitant fees Piaggio dealers add on, that most Kymco dealers don't. It's the OTD price that counts, not the MSRP. The GTi300 looks like a good step up from the HD200, and will probably even cost less than the new Burgman 200, if it ever makes it here.

Pricewise...in YOUR world maybe, but there's more to it than price for nearly everyone else.

There's a reason some dealers can command more add'l fees, than others and that is due to the demand for the machines they sell vs. the ones that are forced to waive them. Supply and demand. Econ. 101. If the Kymco dealer could get those fees, you can bet he would.

Price be damned, maybe YOU just aren't destined to ride a premium italian bike.

Im not saying the GTi300 isn't a great scooter, but the BV350ie is phenomenal and in its own category.

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Costs always have some effect on the judgment of "which is better".
For instance, if A has 10% less performance than B, but sells for 50% lower price . . . then A is clearly "better" (all other things being equal, naturally).

Of course, as the price gap gets smaller, then the judgment gets trickier.

Which is why I ask whether there is much difference in longer-term maintenance costs between the Kymco-300 and the Piaggio-350.

In particular, would there be much difference between the two in costings of replacing a set of pulleys?
[Both being powerful scoots, they would spend much of their time in "top gear" for country riding ~ and the belt groove the pulley faces significantly after 15 - 20,000 miles.]

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The belt change interval on the GTi is 20,000 miles.

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Thank you, Kentucky.
For hot weather riding, I would be strongly tempted to change belts at half that distance [or even before a long trip . . . say 5000 miles plus].
Such is the nuisance of roadside belt replacement!

However, my original question related to the pulleys.
e.g. a set of Honda sh300 pulleys (plus belt and rollers) is getting near $1000 last time I checked.
The Kymco gear would be rather cheaper than that, I hope.
Piaggio ~ not sure. Maybe Honda-like?

Belt costs are a necessary evil; but not too bad overall (if done in your own garage).
Pulley costs can be rather steep for large scooters . . . and I myself would tend to count the first pulley replacement as more or less part of the initial capital cost of a 250+cc scooter.

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MSRP is pretty much a meaningless number, much like "dry" weight. OTD is what counts. My GTi was $4693 OTD, while a BV would have been about $6600. That made the Kymco an easy choice for me, plus the dealer is 5 miles from my home and the Piaggio dealer is about 110 miles.

How many miles do you figure pulleys will last? I don't anticipate having to replace mine. 20,000 miles and they still look like new.

Ah, how long is a piece of string?
When the scooter is used at low power and/or much stop-starting [or not necessarily stopping, but varying speed a lot . . . say 10 - 50 mph, with little high-speed open throttle work] then the pulleys should last for most (or at least half) the economic life of the scooter.

With continually varying speeds, so that the belt is frequently traversing the pulley faces [i.e. ranging over the full torque multiplication ratio . . . which is typically 3:1 on most belt CVT's] then the wear on the pulley faces is fairly even and the faces maintain a reasonably good profile.
That is also good for belt life ~ the belt runs against a good conical profile; and the low average throttle openings means less power & less friction . . . with the belt staying cooler and "living" longer.
For low-power scooters & even higher-power ATV's (which spend much of their time at lower/varying speeds) there won't be much "deep groove" wear necessitating a change of pulleys.

For medium/large scooters, a diet of long distance highway running is not good for pulleys.
Fortunately most riders don't do so much transcontinental stuff . . . and heavy throttle at low speeds in town does help wear the pulleys more evenly.
Pulley life would also depend on the make-up of the aluminium ~ but I don't know what variations there are among manufacturers. I hope the better ones use high-silicon alloy or some such.

If your pulleys look fairly good at 20,000 miles, then I hope you can get at least double that before you get to serious costs. It sounds like you are using the scooter in the mainstream way it was designed for.
For atypical use [e.g. fast touring and/or dusty roads] then a 15,000 mile pulley replacement could be on the cards!




One of my worries with the new BMW-650 maxi scooter [which I don't own, BTW!] is the belt CVT which is buried deep inside the motor (as far as I have seen on cutaway diagrams) and could be a major pain for belt and/or pulley changes.
How will it stand up to sustained high heat & sustained high speeds?
How will belt & pulley life go? [For mostly urban/suburban use, probably quite well, I suspect.]
. . . . However for a lot of highways & hot weather, I'd rather take my chances on the big Honda 650 [or do they call it a 700?].

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Piaggio - premium?
To anyone living close to "home base" that will sound hilarious.

Piaggio bikes are like Italian cars (Fiat, Lancia, Alfa), a lot of style, but not much else,
no one here considers them to be anything special. Made for the masses that want
to be special but can't afford to.

It's not a Bimota FFS.

I know we live on different continents ... but I had a major service on my SH300 including bleeding the ABS circuits, new belt and rollers for $300 including 20% sales tax. So nowhere near $1000.
I am not expecting to replace the pulleys for the life of the machine, only clean them.

You've made no bones about your opinion of Piaggio products here, and that is your right.

But to have you you state what "everyone" where you are thinks of them is ludicrous as you are not the gold standard of everyone's opinion of anything scooter-related any more than jerryh is the barometer of what the scooter builders should build in terms of a newly produced scooter. You two sound like twins sons of different mothers.

I mean, even in your neck "somebody's" buying Piaggio scooters!

By jerry's OWN standards, the Piaggio products ARE premium products in that in his world, the OTD costs are typically higher than other scoots he is considering, making Piaggios out of his reach of economically.

As premium products often go, they aren't necessarily better despite being more costly. But then, the additional cost is often justified in terms of a certain "X" factor, resale, and so on. So in terms of other factors, the price premium is often justified even if that product doesn't "spreadsheet" as well as other not-so-premium brands.

(Last time I was "over there" where you are, people were going crazy for and overpaying for American "Levis" bluejeans. Another premium product with a longstanding reputation, but one which isn't always rightly justified as there are better, heavier duty jeans available for less. But....they aren't Levis!)

So, for those to whom a scooter is a mere appliance, a Piaggio scooter may not be their best choice. But to others who have deeper, different tastes in regards to their scooter, it may be the only choice.

At the end of the day, what makes Piaggio scooters a "premium" brand in my mind is the fact that whenever the scooter discussion turns comparitive, Piaggio products seem to always be the scooter being compared TO. That makes them a standard all their own, As "premium" products typically are.

It's like saying Starbucks makes the best coffee or McDonalds the best food.

Just because ignorant people buy their products in large quantities
that doesn't mean they're premium products, it means they know
how to advertise. Above average price in it's category doesn't make
it premium - it makes it expensive.

We got the same thing going on with Volkswagen cars here.

Premium? Surely no. Audi? Better, maybe somewhat premium - but then there's Bentley.
They're actually all the same brand.

You want a premium scooter?
Burgman 400, Majesty 400, SW-T400 - THAT is premium.

The BV350 is built to the same quality standards as their chinese made Fly, Zip etc.

My opinion about them was formed over many years, many test rides and 4 years working
in the motorcycle industry (currently), and my half-sister has owned 3 of their scooters in
the past 5-6 years.

What makes those products "premium" is EXACTLY the fact that they are considered the "ones" to have, and that people are willing to pay the asking price for them. Period.

What supplier wouldn't like to be in that position? Purveyor of a premium product....

You dont think Kymco wouldnt like to be in Piaggio's seat?

If youre saying that everyone is ignorant who buys Starbucks, McDonalds, and Piaggio products because they do, Ill suggest you and Jerry both live in the same vacuum between your ears.

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Thanks John Bentall.

A Honda sh300 service [any other items?] for $300 sounds excellent value.

Last time I looked for sh300 pulley-set costings was about 2 years ago.
It was purely an internet search, for my own interest [spurred by a local shop offering a 300 at a bit under $9000 ride out the door ~ not a bad price, by local standards, for a scoot with real highway performance i.e. well above any 250cc and better than any other 300 excepting Kymco].

And the cheapest I could find was from a UK online store.
Adding belt and rollers brought the total to around $1000 including VAT (yes, I was not liable for VAT . . . but that saving had to be balanced against postage costs). Those pulleys and all the little bits and pieces associated with them came to an eyebrow raising total.

My search did include a number of sites where the costs were not on "public display" ~ so I am hoping that better value can be obtained with your local knowledge.
I would certainly be interested to hear of current realistic costings.

I am straining my memory . . . I think the Vespa/Piaggio pulley replacement costs were similar . . . but the Kymco's were noticeably cheaper [not being manufactured in Italy].
Italian prices were less for the sub-250's ~ but of course those scoots can't compare to your sh300 !

The take home message for myself was "stay with the metropolitan riding and avoid long distance adventure riding".
And I will be happy if you can correct that impression!

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I replaced the variator and belt this year on the Silverwing. Got the parts online from partsforhondas.com (genuine Honda). The variator , bushing and backing plate were about $65, plus shipping. The belt runs about $122, plus shipping. Installation takes less than an hour doing it myself. If you are at the mercy of your local dealer, I could see it costing $400-500, but certainly not $1000.

Please note, the reason I had wear on my variator was most likely because I used to use a J Costa. The inner half was not worn at all, only the outer half was worn. The clutch pulleys still look perfect at 32000 miles.

Midnullarbor, are you from that little island north of France? I noticed that you priced your comment in dollars, but for a scooter that has never been sold in the US (sh300). From what I read on the silverwing600.com forum, the British pay through the nose sometimes.

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Noses are being paid through, FoldArt !!

I checked [today] your online site "partsforhonda.com" but I get a domain-for-sale notice.

Tried "oemmotorparts.com" but they did not have the full range of SH300 pulley parts.

Then "bike-parts-honda.com" :-
* face drive - 77.80
* face comp.B movable drive - 109.27
* face set, driven - 354.54
* face set, movable driven - 235.09
* belt - 92.00
* rollers - 23.63

Total = 892.33
Hope you are sitting down ~ the figure is not Dollars but Euros.
But does include UK's Value Added Tax [VAT].

Now, smaller items are 10 - 30% cheaper at oemmotorparts . . . but they did not stock some of the larger & more expensive bits.


I hope I have made some serious & embarrassing error in this quickie on-line shopping expedition . . . like a major misunderstanding of what I've been peering at on the listings & exploded diagrams !!
Otherwise, please inform me of cheaper parts sources for the Honda SH300 . . . should I ever get such a beautiful (almost Ferrari-like scoot) !!

The belt & rollers are affordable, but the pulleys must be made of an alloy of gold and unobtainium.


Kymco GT300 is looking good, from where I am sitting.

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Locally, both SH300i and GTI300 are on the expensive side of things
as far as maintenance goes, most Honda and Kymco scoots are, the
Italian parts (for a BV for example) are 20-30% less € (but belts
and rollers for example last 40-50% less then on a typical Kymco),
and Japanese scoots are somewhere in the middle.

A typical oil&filters swap on my DT300i is just slightly cheaper then
on the FZ6, mostly because of the oil quantity.