ask Woody about your Yamaha Supere Tenere XT1200Z wheels

A number of people have asked if the ABS/TCS will still work with 21" front wheel.

Iv'e gone down the path of full Woody's Wheel Works 21" wheel and hub replacement that has no provision for the ABS/TCS ring and sensor, but for my own peace of mind (and to provide valuable feedback to Woody) I sat tonight asking myself,,,,, "self - How can we check this out?"......... "How do I rig the sensor ring and pick up onto the rim?"......... "What would MacGyver do?".........



Short on paper clips, loosely assembled bullets, and a magnifying glass, I measured the hub to disc clearance and devised the next best plan of attack using some 5.4mm plywood.

You may recall from one of the previous pics, the discs on the wheel (Woody's 21"er, not the OEM 19") are spaced off the hub by these beautiful little gold anodized billet components:


It happens that the gap between the inner face of the disc carrier and the outer edge of the hub is 5.4mm.
All I needed to do then was cut a flange with 6 holes at the same PCD as the disc mounts and sandwich it between the disc and hub.

In true MacGyver fashion I chewed the piece of ply to shape (it looks like it at least) and screwed the sensor ring on central.


I left the screw points sticking through the back face of the ply... Because MacGyver would:


Mounting disc completed, it was time to whip the wheel of and try my new MacGyverABSsensorholderthingy on for fit:


Fits first go with no hole filing. Damn Mac's good.


Back on with the wheel and I will fab a little bracket to hold the proximity type doohicky off the two bolts for the caliper.
That's a job for tomorrow now so I will post up some more pics once thats completed:


All in all, an interesting project and it will be interesting to see if the system has enough smarts to compensate for such dramatically different (from design intent) wheel sizes.

Later.

Greg.

More... more!!!!

the outside possibility that the oem sensor holder may just fit in the Superlite hub,,,
then,,,
what if i make an integrated disc spacer and sensor ring holder....we'd have the oem sensor holder provide protection to sensor ring and perform it's sensor holding /spacing job

hmmm

first things first,,somehow figuring out if the AS/TCS works with different diameter wheel

this is where it sucks that i don't have a donor bike for measurements

HELP!!!
Need donor bike for a few days

woody

Hi Woody ... not selfish ... use my wheels to measure and do whatever test you feel necessary ... not asking for a discount for used wheels ... lol
Cheers,
Thagua

roberto,, it's this self-less sharing that gives me goose-bumps,,,all of us working for the greatest good of the greatest number so to speak,,,it would certainly solve the problem weeks sooner,,
'
Salud,y posedas,y amor,y tiempo para gozar amigo de mi corazon

my casa es su casa,,
any day kindred spirit!!!

senor woody

HELP!!!
Need donor bike for a few days

trying to get measurements for abs/tcs as well as test drive 21/18 conversion to see if abs/tcs is affected,,be part of history

woody

BUGGER ME !!!

This must be one smart ABS/TCS system to be able to account for a 21" front wheel when it was designed to operate on 19"er.

I was up early this morning, eager as a school kid with his dads Playboy collection.
I set to work finishing off my MacGyver'ized mounting of the encoder ring and pick up sensor for the front ABS/TCS onto my newly acquired Woody's Wheel Works 21" front wheel.

The only thing to do after last nights sensor ring mount to the hub was to bend up a flatbar mount to secure the proximity type read thingamejig behind the fork leg.

A quick measure of the OEM hub and the readers location and I was into the cutting, drilling, and bending.
It aint pretty but it certainly does the job.









All the way through this mock up project, I was actually quite confident that the system would still work fine.
And work fine it does.
Remember, this is 21" front and standard 17" rear...
Within 30 meters of rolling down the driveway the ABS/TCS light was OFF (it was ON at start up because I had ridden the bike previously without the system connected), and the fault light on the dash had gone out, (the dash will show engine fault when no ABS is detected).

I headed off down my long gravel driveway and tried the ABS... Perfect - It did exactly what it was supposed to do.
I rounded my bottom corner and headed up the road. Up to about 50mph and no sign of an idiot light on the dash.
I rode around 2kms up and down my street, on and of the gas and managed to arc the rear up with the tell tale flashing from the dash.. All's good, so I turn into my driveway again and did a loop of the 1.5km gravel/rock firebreak.
I changed between TC1 and TC2 and the system seems to function EXACTLY as is always has = not cutting in any sooner or later that I could perceive.

The feel of the 21" wheel in the gravel/dirt/road is another story and I will make an entry in this thread when I have done more riding to evaluate. I will say right now though - Hang on to your britch's and keep an eye out for this next ride report. The 21" front wheel has absolutely transformed the feel of the bike in the loose stuff.
Too early to write a comprehensive and convincing review so that will have to wait for a while.

All's good on this side of the world.

Greg.

SUPER JOB WASP!

I just knew the ABS/TC would work (unlike some other adaptations) on the big Yamaha due to math used in the system. Great mock up to test!!

that's pretty fuggin great!!!!
awesome,,,my gut said it would work,,can't recall one that didn't,,

what does get screwed up is the odometer.speedometer reading,,,some machines like ktm 's have a recalibrating circuit for different size wheels

others routinely claim that now their gps speed and the actual indicated MPH are almost spot on..ie the speedo readings from the historical perspective are 'optimistic'',,,, reading more than you are actually going,,creating the illusion of going faster...hence the slower rpm of the 21'er corrects some of that

well it's good to know the ABS works,,,i'm positive the TCS is rear wheel dependent,,,with the larger diameter 18 tires it too will correlate the existing rpm with any sudden acceleration kinda like ABS in reverse...

the best part of all this is the synchronicity an synergy evidenced when all of us work together
gung ho

w

Hi Greg ... how did you managed to use the OEM fender and brake line with your 21" front wheel and did it had a safe clearance to the SW Motech bash plate front? ... couldn`t see them in your photos.
Excellent work.
Thagua ... the other 'guinea pig'

Hi "guinea pigs", excellent work. We all hope you succeeded in this project.
I’m waiting for a new longer rear shock to lift the bike avoiding the links (dog bones) and then start with the 21” front wheel.
I support you from distance!!

I cant say enough about these guys, and Woody himself in particular.

During one of my Skype sessions with Woody a couple of weeks ago, I mentioned that I would probably end up running just one single disc on the front after I trial the 21" double disc wheel.

As you have seen, I received the double disc wheel about 10 days ago and installed it with a view to just removing one disc and playing with the master cylinder sizing at a later date.

Obviously not good enough in Woody's opinion.
I got a phone call from my postmaster (small community) yesterday to say there was a new parcel waiting for collection from "Woody's Wheel Work's".
I am expecting a new 18" wheel down the track, when I can afford it, so I assumed that he may have jumped the gun and sent one out by mistake.

Bugger me if I open the package and find a new Superlite Single disc 21" EXCEL A60 rim (toughest rim in the solar system), Monster laced in all it's glory.

Love the silver stripe and logo detail on this:




I should have probably cleaned the dust off it first:eek1


Another Skype call to Woody reveals that he has struck a deal whereby I send the first wheel (double disc one) on to Steve "Wolfeman" Smith at www.adventuremoto.com.au when I have finished doing my test's and trials....
At least i think that's what he said - All I remember was "bla-bla-bla + when you feel like it"

Actually, I am assisting Woody with some dimensions and design to install the ABS sensor ring in the Superlite hub, so i'll do the right thing and send it over to Steve when that is finished. Maybe!!!
And after I have belted the shit out of it in the bush...

I'll keep you all posted once I get a chance to do a decent ride and make a report.

Greg.

Wasp, you are a spoiled boy!!
(but Woody knows you deserved as the better guinea pig)

Nice one Greg...

Doing some great work there matey...
I am trying to work out which way to proceed. With Superlite hubs or OEM jobies...Woody has given us too many choices...Bugger..

Hey Woody,

Is the single disc front end a reality with OEM hubs matey???

Sorry for the procrastination mate. Just wanna make sure I get the right gear for the big girl. Thanks heaps to you and your off sider Zach, for all the work he has done for me matey...

Top job guys.

Oh yeah.............. HAPPY EASTER

Johnnie

I had to run a few errands down it the city today so I thought it the ideal opportunity to put the new 21" wheel to a couple hundred kilometer test.

I was on a bit of a schedule today so the only dirt road testing was the journey out and return leg down and up my 200meter (washed out/shitty condition - at the moment) driveway.

I think I mentioned earlier that I have been around my firebreak a couple of times and it is really exiting to feel the incredible difference (ADVANTAGE) that the bigger diameter + narrower tire offers. The bike now goes where it is pointed and is not front washed, or steered by deep gravel or sand to anywhere near the extent of the OEM balloon tires that were on the bike.
I havent had enough dirt time to do a off-road report justice but early days it feels amaizing.
I will report when I have had a full day out in the forrest.

On the road.
To be honest, I was expecting the larger wheel to feel like shit on the road... But it doesn't... Sure the steering rake angle has decreased and the trail has increase, both making for slower steering, but it seems slower by the smallest measure in reality.

It requires more input (no, not input - body english) to both turn in and steer out of a corner, but at the same time it feel more "stable".. Obvious I guess given the change of geometry, but the changes seem more natural for this style of bike and the way I ride.. Gone are the days of me thrashing around on the road. I save that for the forrest trails nowadays. Too easy to rack up demerit points and find your self without a license.

Having always seemed to be a very easy bike to ride slowly splitting traffic, it just seems easier now. the bike is so much easier to balance while riding slow that im sure you could get off and jog along beside it sometimes.

I dont know if it's the norm, but the big wheels seem a lot more stable in longitudinal grooves and tarmac joints in the road. it just doesn't seem to get as easily upset.
I think a lot of the advantageous changes that can be felt with this mod can actually be put down to the weight loss from the front (maybe it is a gyroscopic thing?). There is a lot less input required to do a job, and the feedback from the front wheel seems to tax/impact on the stability less.

All in all, it feels great, and I am loving it.
Look forward to rack up some more kms tomorrow and try and think more about what the bike is doing... I was just out enjoying myself today rather than taking in too many analytical details.

Greg.

As I mentioned above, I had a great road ride for a couple hundred kilometers today but I have really been hanging to get the new single disc wheel installed in place of the 21" twin disc wheel.

I got home from my ride today to a handfull of urgent chores so got stuck in and immediately went up to the shed to remove the tire and tube from the "old" 21" wheel (wow, lifes tuff when you got a choice) and spoon them onto the new wheel.

It's been a few years since my old enduro days where you had to change tires in the bush. These days its easier to drop it into a bike shop and pick it up 30mins later. I am pleased to say though that I havent lost any of my hard earned experience and found the task both pleasurable and interesting.
I guess in reality there aint too much tuff about a front wheel, and can be thankful it was not a rear.

1hour later the job was complete and installed back on the bike.
A quick bleed of the brakes and the jobs done.

What a treat. Just when you think that things couldnt get any better than loosing 3kg of un-sprung weight, you drop one disc and a caliper and loose another 2.5kg

Thats right:
The OEM front assembly (tire, disc's etc) was 14kg
The twin disc assembly (tire, disc;s etc) was 11kg
The single disc assembly (slightly lighter and slimmer rim) was 9.7kg. 1.1kg of that was from removing one disc...
BUT - factor in the removal of the superfluous caliper + hose + bolts and you loose another 1.2kg.
SO:
OEM = 14kg
Single disc = 8.5kg

5.5 fricken kg (12.1lbs) lighter in un-sprung mass to accelerate/brake/act on suspension...

I am REALLY looking forward to trying this one out..

I suspect the master cylinder may need a change, but i'll trial it tomorrow and make judgment from there.





ABS ring and sensor back in place temporarily.


I pinched the single banjo bolt from the left hand caliper to complete the connection to the single caliper.


More to come in the form of ride report tomorrow.

Greg.

ok johnnie,,,converting from dual disc to single disc is relatively simple,,, it may not be the most aesthetic experience like my dual/single disc specific hubs,,in your case just

1,,remove right and left banjo bolts

2,,remove x-over brake line

3,,recycle right banjo bolt and use on left side

4,,remove right brake disc and bolts

5,, remove right caliper bolts and caliper

so that is essentially part of it,,,,

FYI,,,what remains to be seen is just how much braking power you have lost and how hard you'll have to squeeze the front brake,,,now that you have lost the proper MA[mechanical advantage of the total oem caliper piston area versus the master cylinder piston area expressed asa ratio....soooo,,,,the usual fix is swapping the master cylinder for one with a smaller piston,,,

and then ya have a front wheel with a few empty holes,,ya can re-insert your old disc mounting bolts [keeps the threads nice n clean] or they hav eplastic plugs,,since ya like BLING so much LOL,,,these lil plugs come in chrome :eek1

soon
woody

<table style="width:auto;"><tbody><tr><td>no
no
no
no
no
no
no=nyet=nein=non
nara problemos,,,
es mui bien


a big hand to organ donor hernia/dave for stepping up to the pump and providing his beast for some wheel transplanting and test driving...comparing th eoem and Galfer rotors with thagua/roberto's wheel in back ground

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<table style="width:auto;"><tbody><tr><td></td></tr><tr><td style="font-family:arial,sans-serif; font-size:11px; text-align:right">From Woody's Tenere Wheels</td></tr></tbody></table>
here's Zach my right hand wheel wizard[he 's really getting better at ,,mostly because i occasionally let him test drive the fruits of his labors,,,[amazing how much he can crank out when titillated with a project like this]
<table style="width:auto;"><tbody><tr><td></td></tr><tr><td style="font-family:arial,sans-serif; font-size:11px; text-align:right">From Woody's Tenere Wheels</td></tr></tbody></table>
after swapping the discs from Dave's 19 = 5 minutes,,,we did a quick test drive with thaqua's new oem hubbed 21 and the oem 17 rear followed by installing the 18x2.5 rim wheel mounted with a 140/80 knobby = no clearance issues <table style="width:auto;"><tbody><tr><td></td></tr><tr><td style="font-family:arial,sans-serif; font-size:11px; text-align:right">From Woody's Tenere Wheels</td></tr></tbody></table>so the testing began,, Zach first after each change of wheel size,,,i followed
FYI,,,we started by getting a baseline feel for what the bike felt like braking hard on the pavement and then in the dirt...i'll make it simple,,the ABS worked awesome for both 19 and 21,,end of story

now we did the same for the TCS part,,same as above on both surfaces in the OFF/#1/#2 mode,,,,guess what???

outside of the slight gear change ie taller gearing,,,it ALL worked amazingly well....from wild to milder and even milder power delivery,,,i can see why you guys like this system...well NOW ya KNOW....it simply WORKS!!!!!!!

sleep tight everywhere.....'cept ya haven't got a clue how much better the bike handles...i kept out of my ATTGAT gear 'cuz i'd hate to let the tiger out of this ol farts tank,,especially after having ''uni''= sea urchin roe [japanes viagra ] for lunch


<table style="width:auto;"><tbody><tr><td></td></tr><tr><td style="font-family:arial,sans-serif; font-size:11px; text-align:right">From Woody's Tenere Wheels</td></tr></tbody></table>

<table style="width:auto;"><tbody><tr><td></td></tr><tr><td style="font-family:arial,sans-serif; font-size:11px; text-align:right">From Woody's Tenere Wheels</td></tr></tbody></table>so just for the hell of it,,since they were all here we did a lil disc comparo..
to the left the oem unit= 4.5mm x310 = 2lbs 14oz = Kg
center is new Galfer for ST 5mm x310 =2lbs 14 oz = Kg
right KTM/Superlite use 5mm x310 = 2lbs 7oz = Kg

the thicker disc dissipates heat better , so you single disc riders should be ok IMHO

<table style="width:auto;"><tbody><tr><td></td></tr><tr><td style="font-family:arial,sans-serif; font-size:11px; text-align:right">manana we start measuring how to install the sensor ring and TCS system into my superlite hubs,,i've already got it figured out just need a few numbers

another round of applause for roberto/dave for their generosity and trust.

woody n the gang
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hello gentlemen,

i have watch for sometime now the evolution of wasps s10. and have like a lot of your mods.
but by far this front wheel job has got me shakin......
i enjoy my s10 in its 19" road going form, but have found the short comings of of this setup in the dirt.
I would very much like to be able to swap a front wheel from a good 19" road rubber set up. to a good 21" dirt jigger
I live in south east oz. motorcycling nirvana, both on and off road.

I love the look of the wheels you are creating for the s10. and i have to ask ........

Firstly; Can i have a twin disc, 21" excel a60 rimmed super-lite, super-strong front wheel. And can I also an abs/tc sensor mounting plate ( just like wasps wooden one only made of alloy) supplied with said wheel ready to go.
Secondly; how much do you want for such creation.

I eagerly await your return posting. with thanks ...cams.

woody

here's aparrallel thread in the yamahasupertenere.com forum
http://www.yamahasupertenere.com/index.php?topic=4021.0