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Old 09-13-2014, 01:36 AM   #721
Tripped1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eldon View Post
The seat belt analogy is a great one if you are comparing that to safety equipment that goes on your body. I'm talking about traction control that would allow a rider to become complaint and apathetic to their machine and surroundings. For me and everyone I ride with this is the furthest thing from what brings us to ride motorcycles.
Try riding a 180hp bike.

Without the traction control I wouldn't have bought it. I'm quite capable of keeping everything in line, but I know that its there, and I've tested what it lets me do pretty well.

Trust me, you pay very close attention to your surroundings, hitting a rock at 120 will put you flat on your face, nannies or not.
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Show folks something with a clutch and carburetor, and it's like teaching a baboon to use a Macbook.
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Old 09-13-2014, 01:59 AM   #722
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older carb'd machines did not have the crisp throttle response of today's FI bikes. It has surprised many, how easily you can land on your ear, even just leaving a parking lot, and only using low or mid rpm. So its not comparable to how things were before, the long, heavy 130hp 'sportsbikes' of yesterday did not get the rear sliding nowhere as easily, even though tyres were also worse back then. Now you get 150hp on a friggin ADV bike!
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Old 09-13-2014, 02:04 AM   #723
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Originally Posted by Pecha72 View Post
older carb'd machines did not have the crisp throttle response of today's FI bikes. It has surprised many, how easily you can land on your ear, even just leaving a parking lot, and only using low or mid rpm. So its not comparable to how things were before, the long, heavy 130hp 'sportsbikes' of yesterday did not get the rear sliding nowhere as easily, even though tyres were also worse back then. Now you get 150hp on a friggin ADV bike!
The KTM ride by wire is anything but "crisp" my 675 has more abrupt throttle response. The KTM is a pussy cat unless I put a LOT of wrist into it....THEN the beast comes out.

I live smack in the middle of a major metro area and they are quite well mannered.
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Show folks something with a clutch and carburetor, and it's like teaching a baboon to use a Macbook.
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Old 09-13-2014, 07:58 AM   #724
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Well I can't say I've ever ridden a 180 hp adventure bike but I've ridden a 120 some hp 999 cc FI KTM superenduro that is about 450 lbs ready to ride. It didn't have traction control but it did have a clutch and throttle so I was able to moderate traction with ease. I'm not saying that abs and traction control doesn't appeal no some new and old riders I'm just saying it's not for me.
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Eldon screwed with this post 09-13-2014 at 07:59 AM Reason: 990 to 999cc
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Old 09-13-2014, 08:43 AM   #725
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Having followed this thread and the responses I have the following observations:

The ADV community is a melting pot of riders with different skill sets, different goals, and different views on what constitutes good or bad tech on an ADV motorcycle.

The defining line for many in the technology debate is the difference between technology that makes a bike more modern (Fuel injection, disc brakes, Electronic ignition, etc), and technology that is designed to be able to override rider input (ABS, TC, ride by wire).

The emotional element that has surfaced is just inflated and bruised egos.

That leaves the original question: To which the answer appears to be: No. Not everyone wants an ADV bike with all the latest hi-tech, but many do and manufacturers build for the the group that allows for the biggest profit margin. If enough riders wanted a latte machine on board you can be sure every model out the door would have one. That's what manufacturers do. You can be happy, sad, or mad, but that's just the way it is.

If enough folks want a basic modern highly capable mid-weight ADV bike and keep their money in their pocket waiting for one the manufacturers will step up to the plate.
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Old 09-13-2014, 10:07 AM   #726
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Oh come on, give him a break. The guy had to "answer" and he did. It doesn't mean it had to be a realistic answer.
what is unrealistic about riding in snow
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Old 09-13-2014, 10:55 AM   #727
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Originally Posted by tarka View Post
i don't agree that traction control got anyone out of any ditch or up any slope.

Nor do i agree that abs got anyone around any corner,etc.

All that these things do is over ride poor throttle control or the effects of panic braking.

So yes..in a twisted,female logic kind of way,they sort of did achieve the things the people say....but they didn't give the tyres any extra grip off road and they didn't add or improve anything in corners.

All these gadgets do is over-ride or compensate for heavy handedness or bad technique.
Ultimately they'll lead to total dumbing down of rider ability and remove awareness of the consequences of not doing things more appropriately or more correctly.
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Old 09-13-2014, 03:16 PM   #728
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Old 09-13-2014, 04:08 PM   #729
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I didn't think I needed that crap either for many years. I'm 54 now, my reflexes, and attention span aren't what they once were. Being gone overseas working over half the time, and splitting what time I do have at home with the wife, family, bikes, boats, etc, means not as much riding period.

So, I am glad the new bike has ABS, and since it's an 800LB Harley it doesn't need traction control with my big ass on it.

But the new Explorer I test rode on a pipeline had traction control, and it damn sure needed it that day with me at the controls...

It's like we've always said in the oilfield...it's better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it.

It does break my heart that there are so many professional riders here being weighted down by the technology that only a few of us old fat farts need, such is life.
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Old 09-13-2014, 05:41 PM   #730
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wraith Rider View Post
While I'm talking about TC/ABS/whatever that allows a rider to let some more adrenaline flow without increasing the risk, getting just a bit more engaged in riding.
Dunno if it's that what brings me to ride motorcycles, but it's fun enough to do no matter if it was considered originally motorcycly.
If you depend on alphabet soup hi-tech to keep your bike under control as you probe extremes, in search of adrenaline jollies on boring highways, you are an ignorant, irresponsible young twerp…..

Kid, you are danger to yourself (no objection to that), and a danger to others (which is repugnant).

If you are as good as you think you are, git thee to a track where you can show off your skills, and the capabilities of your machine, with like minded others.

On public roads, on your euro down, euro a week techno-lardy ride, with your attitude you are likely to be nothing but a troll.
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Old 09-13-2014, 10:48 PM   #731
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aj Mick View Post
If you depend on alphabet soup hi-tech to keep your bike under control as you probe extremes, in search of adrenaline jollies on boring highways, you are an ignorant, irresponsible young twerp…..
Wow, am I lucky that this characterisation doesn't even nearly fit. It would have been sooo depressing to not longer be a good boy in your eyes.

Quote:
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Kid, you are danger to yourself (no objection to that), and a danger to others (which is repugnant).
Why do you think so?

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If you are as good as you think you are, git thee to a track where you can show off your skills, and the capabilities of your machine, with like minded others.
First: If I am as good as I think, I'm just about average.
Second: I don't feel the need to show off. That's long gone, was rare even when I was a teenager and even then didn't have the wanted effect.
Third: Same for my bike, to show off the track barely would be the right place.
Fourth: The track is most probably NOT the place for me to find likeminded others. I always wanted to try a track day out of curiosity, but the more often I talk to the folks who like going there the more I understand that they have some points of view I can't agree with and that I really wouldn't fit in. (Not that I really fit in on public roads but at least that's my natural habitat, it's free and I don't have the choice to not use them.)

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On public roads, on your euro down, euro a week techno-lardy ride, with your attitude you are likely to be nothing but a troll.
I don't know if anyone on the road anytime thought "that biker must be troll" when he saw me. Most probably not since I don't regularly sit under bridges (even if it rains) and classifiing guys with a non-mainstream opinion as a troll is basically an internet thing.
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