Would You Fight a "Warning" citation?

I was stopped the other day riding down a paved, non-lane marked road with no posted speed limit signs.

The legal speed limit on this road is 55 mph.

When I asked the Trooper "What's up?" he responded "You were going a little fast there, weren't you?"

I said "I was doing a little over 40mph" to which he responded "You were going 46mph, and the speed limit on this road is 35mph"

I told him that the speed limit was 55 mph, and he told me that I was wrong, that this road was a single lane road and as such had a 35 mph speed limit.

I told him that the road was not posted for speed, and had a 55 mph speed limit, and he told me that all single lane roads are 35 mph, posted or not and that is in the State code.

I asked him when his radar was last calibrated, and showed him that my GPS had recorded my maximum speed at 43mph.

He responded that it didn't really matter, since 43 mph was still over the 35 mph speed limit for single-lane roads.

He issued me a written warning for "speeding" and I was on my way.

I spent quite a bit of time reviewing the State Code regarding Road usage and traffic laws and then queried the State Police via email when I could not find any mention of a 35 mph speed limit on unposted single-lane roads within the traffic codes.

The response from the Deputy Director of Traffic Records for the State Police was:

Dear Sir,

You are correct a single lane road is 55 mph unless otherwise noted, but be aware that what you may think is prudent and safe a trooper or other police officer may not believe is, so then you may be pulled over and issue a citation for speeding or if it's a dirt road and you are traveling 55 mph you could be issued a citation for "To fast for Road Conditions" citation.

But if not posted the legal speed is 55.

If this does not help feel free to email me directly

Sgt C.K. Zerkle (Deputy Director of Traffic Records)

So, it would appear that I was correct, and the State trooper who detained me was incorrect.

I know that a "warning" carries no fine, points or need to stand before a judge, but the German in me won't let it go.

While "warnings" are not made available to insurers, the fact remains that this warning is now associated with my driver's license and would be available to any LEO that ran my license in the future.

If the trooper had issued me an actual ticket, I have no doubt that it would have been dismissed in court (provided the judge wasn't the trooper's mother's brother / cousin - this is West Virginia after all) and my record would be completely clean on any future search.

So I have this intense need to persue this, and get the warning expunged.
I have no friends or relatives in this State, I am completely alone. The only thing I have is my name, and it irks me to no end to be falsely accused of a violation, even when that accusation does not legally require me to respond, or carry any penalty other than a blot on my record.

Thoughts or comments? Has anyone else fought a "warning"?

Sounds like you are technically correct, but in life you have to pick your battles and this is one I wouldn't bother with. OTOH, if you have unlimited time or feel the principle is extremely important, knock yourself out.

BTW, I did a quick search and while I can't speak to WV or all states in general, it appears that warnings are not part of your formal driving record and will not be reported to insurance companies. Whether it actually goes into a database that will come up if you are stopped again in WV, I don't know. Since you have been offered a discussion with someone on the inside, this would be an interesting question to put to him/her. They may offer to purge the record for you.

- Mark

be sure to carry a copy of above e-mail reply when visiting said road again.

of what you got to the uninformed officer. Did you get badge number or name?

I have his name, and was able to leave him a voice-mail message. He is off-duty today, so I am waiting to hear from him.

I spoke with another trooper at his station, and the trooper questioned why I was even bothering, since it was only a warning.

Some people don't understand the principle, apparantly.

As non-uniformed civilians, we are always told that "ignorance of the law is no excuse". The uniformed among us should be held to the same standard, IMO.

My assumption is that it is entered into a database, since it warns that "ACTION WILL BE TAKEN AGAINST HABITUAL VIOLATORS!"

It stands to reason that a written warning will not just be between you and the LEO who pulled you over, but if you are stopped in the future by another LEO, the fact that you had previously been issued a warning could factor into the equation - as in 'this yo yo has been warned before, so he gets a ticket today' - which is why, since the warning I received is bogus and I commited no "VIOLATION", I would want it completely erased.

Know what I mean, Vern?

Perhaps a LEO reading this thread could shed some light?

If this is around where you live, all I can suggest is this; Don't make a name for yourself as a "troublemaker". This is especially the case if you live someplace where your local constabulary has nothing better to do than give traffic tickets out.

I'm sure you know that you'll probably not get another warning if you pursue this any further.

I know that you are in the wright; But surely you understand that "WRONG" stays up late at night doing push ups and crunches in the basement. WRONG also happens to be best drinking buddies with "IS".

Just be glad dude wasn't anymore of a douche and gave you a ticket. Then you'd have to go to court just to prove he was wrong. Nevermind having to live near where dude patrols after. Walk away.

"It's always the principle...", an attorney once mentioned to me.

Though I understand your point of view & your frustration the thing is, for all intent & purpose, you're a stranger in a strange land- "alone" as you mentioned; this is not a strong position.

Beyond the principle, what is important to you here?

There is no "beyond" the principle.

If I do something wrong, I accept the result.

If I do nothing wrong, I should not have to accept the result of another person's mistake, when that person is otherwise unaffected by that mistake.

Being right and having the last say, obviously. OP, feel free to make a giant mess out of something that doesn't need to be.

So what exactly does the written warning state? I only ask because, similar to the motor vehicle laws in California, you could have received a valid warning for riding 43 mph, despite the prima facie limit of 55 mph, if you were judged to be going too fast for the conditions in the opinion of the ociffer.

The cop likely knew he was wrong or he would have ticketed you, I bet. Personally, I would give a copy of the response you got from the Deputy Director of Traffic Records for the State Police to the cop's supervisor and then ask him/her to please pass the info on along ... and then let it go at that. Correcting a cop face-to-face is not something a cop's ego and training can tolerate. I have done it a couple of times, but nothing ever really changed after that. Cops intimidate at the point of a gun, and they are just not going to let you win even a mere verbal battle, however well-principled it might actually be.

I'm sorry but you're slightly wrong. The ignorant f*ck should be held to a higher standard because it's his job!
You are right to enforce the principal of the law. Ream him a new orifice.
Why should you accept such pendantic mediocrity? He's wasting your money by being stupid. Your taxes pay his salary and for his training.
Sadly someone that stupid will probably not get it, so letting it all go might be best at the end of the day.

So your real response should you find yourself in a similar situation would be to stay under the radar and don't make waves?

That's cool.

It'll be interesting to see just how "giant" a mess can be made out of this. Doubt it will be on par with Ruby Ridge.

VIOLATION: Speeding

Again, the trooper kept referring to a 35mph speed limit. He never once said anything about 'too fast for conditions'.

What was Sancho's opinion on this, Don Quixote?

With absolutely no disrespect intended, my advice is to save your energy for worthwhile fights. It shouldn't surprise any adult that law enforcement officers and practically anyone else can make mistakes and be stubborn about admitting it. Let it go.

But most people are not like you.


This is why we can't have nice things.


Welcome to a world which is not fair by any stretch of the imagination.

Am I the only one here who is happy to get by with only a warning ticket?

I got popped for 55 in a 30, the limit was 55 on the entire highway, except for one 1/4 mile stretch.. and the 30mph sign was not visible due to overgrowth. By rights, he had me, state highway, state trooper and 25mph over the limit (20 over = reckless driving and loss of DL for 1 year!:eek1).

When he came back and said he was only going to warn me I was so freaking relieved.

If you're going to try to fight it, you'll only be successful fighting what's written down. The conversation you had with him will devolve into a he-said/she-said thing that will get you nowhere. If the warning said "Violation: Exceeding 35 mph speed limit. Observed speed: 46 mph." then you'd have something concrete to convince a traffic judge that the cop was wrong, both on the speed limit and your speed.

If it only says "Speeding" then the cop can simply say you were riding too fast for the conditions and you don't have much to stand on, short of spending several thousand dollars on expert witnesses and conditions re-construction...

By the letter of the law, the judge will most likely decide you WERE speeding. Not saying I agree with that at all, but I can't help but think you were lucky to get off with a warning.

I know I'd hate to let something like that ride, just like you're feeling, but as someone with no dog in the fight try think of something you'd rather be doing (say, riding your motorcycle) than fighting an unwinnable battle like this, and go do it .

Send the officer the note then turn your energy to getting the speed limits posted on the road in question so it isn't an issue in the future. You could say to the cop that you were quite certain of your position but in respect to his opinion you looked into it and this is what you were told. Now your simply informing and sharing the info not being a dick with a "in your face Dano!"

i'm not sure if you can really fight a warning, but i might if you can.

one thing i would absolutely do is file a complaint with the appropriate body (perhaps an internal affairs department, perhaps just his supervisor).

it may seem like a small thing, but it is a breakdown of rule of law. government agents making up their own laws as they go is completely unacceptable and must be nipped in the bud.

he was wrong. if he didn't know he was wrong, he needs to be correctly informed so he does not unjustifiably hassle another citizen in the future. if he did know he was wrong, he needs to lose his badge (not that that will happen) as that is an abuse of authority (which is supposed to be unacceptable in america).

people who don't understand why need to study more world history and more psychology.

and it's pretty pathetic how our government, at all levels, is so loathe to ever admit it was wrong. even in the reply you got, they had no choice but to admit their agent was wrong, yet they managed to find a way to defend him and still accuse you of being in the wrong. disgusting.

if no one stands up to this little stuff, no one will be able to stand up to the big stuff when it comes (and, arguably, it is already here).