ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Gear > Equipment
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 11-30-2006, 11:03 PM   #136
RSL
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joined: Jun 2003
Oddometer: 4,347
Fred, why not try this:

Get some aluminum foil tape at the hardware store. It comes in rolls like duct tape, but it's made of aluminum foil and has all sorts of uses, but primarily as a sealer for heating ducts, so handles heat well. Pretty strong, too.

Wrap one or both sides of your heated insoles with this stuff. If just on the bottom, it would hold the wires in place just like the scotch tape you used for the mockup, but the adhesive is better. Moreover, the aluminum is a superb heat conductor, so would evenly distribute the heat over the entire lower surface of the insole, obviating hot spots.

Using the alu. tape, you might even make a lip around the circumference of the insoles, with a heated wire in it, to give heat to the sides of your toes and feet, not just underneath. You could even extend the heat wires over the top of your foot by this method, or for that matter, make a liner that wraps around your whole foot.

And, to optimize the routing of the wires, why not try this: Go for a ride on a cold day with thin socks and no heat. Find which areas of your feet are cold, then route & concentrate the wires accordingly. Your heated insole idea could also apply to the tongue of the shoe or boot, as that area of the foot/ankle gets wind blast.

RSL screwed with this post 11-30-2006 at 11:53 PM
RSL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2006, 06:34 AM   #137
Uncle Pollo
happy cachiporra
 
Uncle Pollo's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2006
Location: Albuquerque, Neue Messico
Oddometer: 47,429
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred H.
Well, I think I gave up on the idea of heated socks. Too much sewing.

So just for fun, I slapped together some heated insoles with scotch tape temporarily holding on the wires just so I could test out the concept.

It works amazingly well, and produces heat up from the bottom of the boot into my foot. The soles I used have some gel in them, so that helps spread out the heat nicely. And the soles can easily be removed from the boots when not needed. I have the wires on the underside of the insole. I tried it on the top and it increased the amount of heat I felt since the wires were right under my sock. Not sure which is the best side to put them on. I may try putting a layer of aluminum foil under the insole to reflect the heat up so less of it gets wasted heating up the sole of the boot. This might actually work. I think I may try to make this in a more permanent fashion.

One insole draws about 5.6 amps, which is a bit much, but if I wire two in series, it should cut that in half, which may be just about right.


What kind of wire por favor?
Uncle Pollo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2006, 02:12 PM   #138
Fred H.
Adventurer
 
Joined: Apr 2004
Oddometer: 33
I used the wire mentioned in the first post in this thread. It is Belden Teflon coated 30 gage stranded silver plated copper wire, purchased from Mouser for $25 for 100 ft.

Mouser Part #: 566-83000-100-09
Manufacturer Part #: 83000 009100
Manufacturer: Belden CDT
Description: Hook-Up Wire 30AWG UL1213 WHT
Page: 858, Data Sheet
Fred H. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2006, 01:24 PM   #139
thetourist
Just passing thru
 
Joined: Jul 2005
Location: Moscow, Idaho
Oddometer: 3,893
Hey, Fred,

I suffer from "frozen toe"(old injuries) so was really interested in your insoles.

How many feet of wire did you use on the insoles, and how hot do they get? I assumed from your comments they were a bit warm. Have you tried to wire in series yet? Direct switch or modulator?

Some of this is still a bit confusing to me. Does more wire add heat or reduce heat?

I've done some experimenting on warming my frozen toe. I run around barefoot till my toe aches then warm it up with a heating pad.

High heat feels good but makes my feet swell.

Standing on the pad will warm the feet, but takes a long time for the great toe to recover.

The pad on top of the foot is good at keeping the foot warm and needs less heat.

I'm considering makeing a tongue to fit on top of my foot. My boot has a lot of room.

I could just make an oversock, but I would feel the wires, besides I can't find one big enough. I would need a thin sock size 15-16.

Hold on now, the wheels are turning as I type this. Split a dress sock and stitch it to an inner sole. I may be able to gain a bit in size and have a padded bottom, hmmmm. Wires on the outside of the sole and on the inside of the sock. Now I can change socks as necessary and not have to constantly wash the electrics. I hate dirty socks.

any constructive comments are welcome
__________________
thetourist
The gate guard glares at me. "It's after curfew." He looks me up and down, "What do you think you are, some kind of ****** tourist?" ..Phu Loi 1969
My Idaho =7893
thetourist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2006, 08:05 AM   #140
Fred H.
Adventurer
 
Joined: Apr 2004
Oddometer: 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by thetourist
Hey, Fred,

Some of this is still a bit confusing to me. Does more wire add heat or reduce heat?


Hold on now, the wheels are turning as I type this. Split a dress sock and stitch it to an inner sole. I may be able to gain a bit in size and have a padded bottom, hmmmm. Wires on the outside of the sole and on the inside of the sock. Now I can change socks as necessary and not have to constantly wash the electrics. I hate dirty socks.

any constructive comments are welcome
A short wire gets real hot over a smaller area due to the low resistance (direct short) and high current.

A longer wire has more resistance, so it will draw less current, and heat to a lower temperature, but the heat will be applied over a larger area since the wire is longer.

It is a balancing act to getting the wire length right. You need it to get hot enough to provide heat, but no so hot to burn, and you really want to minimize current draw to no more than what you absolutly need so you don't make the electrical system work too hard. You also have to keep in mind how you want the heat spread out, since more wire will be needed to get the heat spread over a larger area.

To sum it up, a longer wire has more resistance, so it will draw less current, provide less watts, and heat to a lower overall temperature accross the length of the wire. A shorter wire will have less resistance, and will draw more current, provide more watts of heat, and get to a higher temperature.

Also, keep in mind, that the closer the wire is the skin, the less heat you will need, so you can reduce the wattage needed, and increase the effectivness by keeping it closer to the skin. However, if you put the wire right against the skin, you will probably end up with one spot that feels real hot, and another that is cold. So again, it is a balancing act. You need a thin layer of material between you and the wire. Not so thin that the wire will burn, but not so thick that it slows the heat transfer.

I don't know if this will work out on the underside of the insole or not as it has to heat up the insole and gel before the heat transfers, but it does make for a nice uniform distribution of the heat once it gets warm. I will have to do some more experimenting before I decide on the final design. I may have to move the wire to the top side of the insole, even though I would rather have it on the bottom.

Your suggestion about cutting off the top portion of a sock and attaching it to the front of the insole to provide heat for the top of the foot sounds like a good idea, and I may try that.

I initially used 10ft of wire, but I don't think that is enough, even with two wired in series. I will increase it to 15ft per insole and see if that reduces the current draw enough. This will mean with two insoles in series, the whole circuit will consist of 30ft of wire. I will test this out and let you know how it goes.

Fred H. screwed with this post 12-04-2006 at 08:19 AM
Fred H. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2006, 08:14 PM   #141
thetourist
Just passing thru
 
Joined: Jul 2005
Location: Moscow, Idaho
Oddometer: 3,893
Thanks Fred, I think I finally got it. Long wire...spreads the heat out, short wire...arc welder. Looks like I need to order up some wire.

what is the best way to connect these tiny little wires? Will they solder? I don't want to let the smoke out.

gzzzzzht
__________________
thetourist
The gate guard glares at me. "It's after curfew." He looks me up and down, "What do you think you are, some kind of ****** tourist?" ..Phu Loi 1969
My Idaho =7893
thetourist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2006, 08:39 PM   #142
RSL
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joined: Jun 2003
Oddometer: 4,347
A couple of weeks ago somebody smart posted here about a $40 down-filled jacket from Target that he wears over his heated liner, and under his jacket.

I bought one of these on sale for $35 at Target, and finally had a chance to try it today, cruising at 80mph in ~40 degree damp weather, with my Gerbings jacket liner underneath and HeatTroller set on low/medium. WARM AS TOAST! This is as comfy as I've ever been in winter riding conditions and was money well spent. I usually have hot spots with the Gerbings, as I usually have to crank the heat up. With the goose down insulation, however, the HeatTroller is on lower setting and makes no hot spots. The down holds the heat in and distributes it nicely.

Therefore, for those who are considering making their own electrically heated gear, you may want to seriously consider this Target jacket as a fine candidate into which to install your hot wires. This thing packs pretty compactly, and does not look bad, either. Has a high color to keep the neck warm, drawstring waist, and velcro tabs at the cuffs. Available in several two-tone colors, including blue/navy and charcoal/black. Check it out.

RSL screwed with this post 12-04-2006 at 08:51 PM
RSL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2006, 08:52 PM   #143
PizzaHog
Thought Criminal
 
PizzaHog's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2006
Location: Left Coast, CA
Oddometer: 2,775
OK - Despite being mocked by the female population of Casa Pizza, I'm ready to start the plunge into this "exciting adventure".

1. You guys have provided good sources for the kevlar coated wire necessary for this project. Check.

2. I can obtain a decent, thin jacket that will fit under my MC jacket from somewhere, cheap. Something like a MC jacket liner seems to be perfect, if for no other reason because the Harley-Davisdon electric jacket is a glorified double-liner with some wires in the middle. Check.

But a lot of the wiring in the jacket is located in the stomach/lower back areas. I'm behind a barndoor windshield [CeeBailey's], and the wind coming off of it hit my inner forearm, biceps and upper chest. Almost *exactly* where the jacket wiring ain't.

3. Wind. Wind is bad. Wind is the devil. Wind sucks all the warmth from the neat-o jackets we make. Current PH solution = wind-proof windbreaker over my borrowed electric jacket. It doesn't completely work, but some of the heat actually stays in to keep me warm.

So - how to break the wind []? I'm thinking - neoprene is windproof, provides insulation, and is workable [sew-able, velcro-able, glue-able, etc.].

I figure I get some of that wire, tape it to the liner with that aluminum tape in the areas I need it, and velcro some neoprene in the wind-hit areas of the jacket.

Opinions? Anything obviously st00pid in this suggestion? I don't want to go too far along a path that will, in retrospect, prove me dumber than I already...

__________________
"For just as the Constitution is not a suicide pact, neither is there an obligation in the civil society to go meekly to one’s death at the state’s behest, or to satisfy its lust for absolute control over its citizens." Michael Walsh
PizzaHog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2006, 07:40 AM   #144
ZZR_Ron
Underground
 
ZZR_Ron's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2004
Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario, Canada
Oddometer: 8,014
Once again gentlemen, if it's truly cold out, go out and spend 100 bucks on
a North49 Arctic Trail one piece suit. You will roast.

No I don't work for them, this isn't spam, it's just the warmest thing
I've ever worn in my life. Put some electrics in with it, and you're good to 30 below.

My two cents for the day.
__________________
Great minds think alike;small minds seldom differ...
ZZR_Ron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2006, 08:03 AM   #145
xtphreak
from B4 "adventure bikes"
 
xtphreak's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2004
Location: Back in WNC
Oddometer: 7,963
Quote:
Originally Posted by PizzaHog
OK - Despite being mocked by the female population of Casa Pizza, I'm ready to start the plunge into this "exciting adventure".

1. You guys have provided good sources for the kevlar coated wire necessary for this project. Check.

2. I can obtain a decent, thin jacket that will fit under my MC jacket from somewhere, cheap. Something like a MC jacket liner seems to be perfect, if for no other reason because the Harley-Davisdon electric jacket is a glorified double-liner with some wires in the middle. Check.

But a lot of the wiring in the jacket is located in the stomach/lower back areas. I'm behind a barndoor windshield [CeeBailey's], and the wind coming off of it hit my inner forearm, biceps and upper chest. Almost *exactly* where the jacket wiring ain't.

3. Wind. Wind is bad. Wind is the devil. Wind sucks all the warmth from the neat-o jackets we make. Current PH solution = wind-proof windbreaker over my borrowed electric jacket. It doesn't completely work, but some of the heat actually stays in to keep me warm.

So - how to break the wind []? I'm thinking - neoprene is windproof, provides insulation, and is workable [sew-able, velcro-able, glue-able, etc.].

I figure I get some of that wire, tape it to the liner with that aluminum tape in the areas I need it, and velcro some neoprene in the wind-hit areas of the jacket.

Opinions? Anything obviously st00pid in this suggestion? I don't want to go too far along a path that will, in retrospect, prove me dumber than I already...

not a bad eyedeer

I'm gonna remove the heater panels from the front of my vest (given time) and put a pc of thin (1/16") closed cell foam between it and the fleece tp block heat loss to the front and to "airproof".

we use this stuff to wrap machines before trucking

I was also toying with the idea of lining the sleeves of my 1st gear liner to "airproof" and add insulation ... now I'm thinking the neoprene would be mo' better in the sleeves

where'd you source the neoprene Pizza Dude?
__________________
Do one thing every day that scares you. Baz Luhrmann
Women and cats will do as they please,
and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea.
Robert A. Heinlen
Adventure is discomfort recounted at leisure. Flash / GSWayne
Chrome don't get ya home. Rob Nye
Stamp Out Hoplophobia in Our lifetimes.
1999 Tiger 885
1995 XT600E
xtphreak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2006, 08:44 AM   #146
Uncle Pollo
happy cachiporra
 
Uncle Pollo's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2006
Location: Albuquerque, Neue Messico
Oddometer: 47,429
Quote:
Originally Posted by RSL
A couple of weeks ago somebody smart posted here about a $40 down-filled jacket from Target that he wears over his heated liner, and under his jacket.

I bought one of these on sale for $35 at Target, and finally had a chance to try it today, cruising at 80mph in ~40 degree damp weather, with my Gerbings jacket liner underneath and HeatTroller set on low/medium. WARM AS TOAST! This is as comfy as I've ever been in winter riding conditions and was money well spent. I usually have hot spots with the Gerbings, as I usually have to crank the heat up. With the goose down insulation, however, the HeatTroller is on lower setting and makes no hot spots. The down holds the heat in and distributes it nicely.

Therefore, for those who are considering making their own electrically heated gear, you may want to seriously consider this Target jacket as a fine candidate into which to install your hot wires. This thing packs pretty compactly, and does not look bad, either. Has a high color to keep the neck warm, drawstring waist, and velcro tabs at the cuffs. Available in several two-tone colors, including blue/navy and charcoal/black. Check it out.


I told ya you would love it.

25 f ... t-shirt, electrics on "2", down jacket, lined leather jacket,
Uncle Pollo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2006, 08:47 AM   #147
Uncle Pollo
happy cachiporra
 
Uncle Pollo's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2006
Location: Albuquerque, Neue Messico
Oddometer: 47,429
Quote:
Originally Posted by PizzaHog
OK - Despite being mocked by the female population of Casa Pizza, I'm ready to start the plunge into this "exciting adventure".

1. You guys have provided good sources for the kevlar coated wire necessary for this project. Check.

2. I can obtain a decent, thin jacket that will fit under my MC jacket from somewhere, cheap. Something like a MC jacket liner seems to be perfect, if for no other reason because the Harley-Davisdon electric jacket is a glorified double-liner with some wires in the middle. Check.

But a lot of the wiring in the jacket is located in the stomach/lower back areas. I'm behind a barndoor windshield [CeeBailey's], and the wind coming off of it hit my inner forearm, biceps and upper chest. Almost *exactly* where the jacket wiring ain't.

3. Wind. Wind is bad. Wind is the devil. Wind sucks all the warmth from the neat-o jackets we make. Current PH solution = wind-proof windbreaker over my borrowed electric jacket. It doesn't completely work, but some of the heat actually stays in to keep me warm.

So - how to break the wind []? I'm thinking - neoprene is windproof, provides insulation, and is workable [sew-able, velcro-able, glue-able, etc.].

I figure I get some of that wire, tape it to the liner with that aluminum tape in the areas I need it, and velcro some neoprene in the wind-hit areas of the jacket.

Opinions? Anything obviously st00pid in this suggestion? I don't want to go too far along a path that will, in retrospect, prove me dumber than I already...

I wore a wet suit under my regular clothing on a standard unfaired bike, leather jacket on top of that, and those cheap but sturdy yellow rainsuits from a hardware store.

Not bad insulation ... and not a problem getting wet.

Lots of baby powder to fit "dry" skin on a wetsuit
Uncle Pollo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2006, 09:34 AM   #148
RSL
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joined: Jun 2003
Oddometer: 4,347
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vstrommancer
I wore a wet suit under my regular clothing on a standard unfaired bike, leather jacket on top of that, and those cheap but sturdy yellow rainsuits from a hardware store.

Not bad insulation ... and not a problem getting wet.

Lots of baby powder to fit "dry" skin on a wetsuit
But, wouldn't the wet suit prevent your body moisture from escaping, since it does not "breathe?" I tried some diver's gloves for that purpose, but my hands got clammy wet.

Last night I searched eBay for "goose down" in the men's clothing section, and there are a pile of high quality goose down garments that would be wonderful for addition of electrics. Prices very good, too. Goose down is about the best insulation there is: Works for the geese at ~20,000' in Arctic weather.
RSL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2006, 01:18 PM   #149
PizzaHog
Thought Criminal
 
PizzaHog's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2006
Location: Left Coast, CA
Oddometer: 2,775
I have a limited amount of space between my work clothes and my Motoport jacket and pants. A thick fleece starts making arm movement stiff; I think a down jacket in this situation would be much worse.

The neoprene wouldn't contact my skin or work clothes. It would be on the outside of this garment, only in the areas I need to block the wind from drilling into [and seemingly right through] me. The physical separation from my clothes and skin, combined with the fact that it would only be installed in the areas of my arms and chest that get hit with the air, should be enough to prevent sweating.

Neoprene Link It is more expensive than I thought; I think I'll need about 5'-6'. I'm open to any other place that sells neoprene; our local fabric craft store no longer sells or orders it.

My thinking [when it happens] is that a thin liner, with the heating elements on the outside of it, then covered and held in place with the aluminum tape, then covered in 3mm neoprene, should be flexible, thin enough to fit very comfortably under my jacket, strong enough to take a reasonable amount of abuse, provide lots of heat and block the wind coming around my windshield.

Anyone know how to make a thermostat for the electrical portion of this project? HeatTrollers are expensive...
__________________
"For just as the Constitution is not a suicide pact, neither is there an obligation in the civil society to go meekly to one’s death at the state’s behest, or to satisfy its lust for absolute control over its citizens." Michael Walsh
PizzaHog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2006, 01:21 PM   #150
ZZR_Ron
Underground
 
ZZR_Ron's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2004
Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario, Canada
Oddometer: 8,014
Quote:
Originally Posted by PizzaHog
I have a limited amount of space between my work clothes and my Motoport jacket and pants. A thick fleece starts making arm movement stiff; I think a down jacket in this situation would be much worse.

The neoprene wouldn't contact my skin or work clothes. It would be on the outside of this garment, only in the areas I need to block the wind from drilling into [and seemingly right through] me. The physical separation from my clothes and skin, combined with the fact that it would only be installed in the areas of my arms and chest that get hit with the air, should be enough to prevent sweating.

Neoprene Link It is more expensive than I thought; I think I'll need about 5'-6'. I'm open to any other place that sells neoprene; our local fabric craft store no longer sells or orders it.

My thinking [when it happens] is that a thin liner, with the heating elements on the outside of it, then covered and held in place with the aluminum tape, then covered in 3mm neoprene, should be flexible, thin enough to fit very comfortably under my jacket, strong enough to take a reasonable amount of abuse, provide lots of heat and block the wind coming around my windshield.

Anyone know how to make a thermostat for the electrical portion of this project? HeatTrollers are expensive...

Ummm...did you read the rest of the thread?
__________________
Great minds think alike;small minds seldom differ...
ZZR_Ron is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 03:47 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014