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Old 12-07-2012, 10:29 AM   #49786
fritzcoinc
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Originally Posted by sc-razor View Post
Another day to shout out a word of thanks to all of our veterans! God Bless you!


Here's one of her sisters, the Texas:
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96 XR650L, 96 Guzzi Sport, 07 BMW K1200GT,
86 Husky 400 XCE, 00 Husky Te 610 e, 1999 Husky TC610 SM, 2000 Cagiva GC; Google: TX7
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Old 12-07-2012, 10:33 AM   #49787
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Originally Posted by Schultz! View Post
So as stated before the mechanic (me) and the cam are retarded

So modded my timing gear to get about 7 degree of adjustment or more both ways +/- from zero, man is that steel HARD the carbide burrs in my die grinder worked great but a hand file or average drill bit will only scratch it.

So several cam degreeing runs later I got this

Intake 103.25 Exhaust 104.75

cam card

Intake 104 Exhaust 105.5

Looks legit to me within 1.25 deg on the worst difference so time to tear it down for some more clay on the piston.

There was no way in hell I was going to remove the cam sproket so devised a way of getting the cam and sproket out without removing the bolts (bit of a pita but worth it). re clay the piston and re assemble the top end rotate 360 cam degree and tear down again.


What I found was not unexpected but not what I wanted either, the Exhaust valves now have about .150 clearance BUT the intakes are at bout zero zilch Nada

So out with that bastage piston and off to the machine shop

here is a pic of the cam sprocket


Exhaust clay


and the Intake clay
Another stuipd question from me, sure you got the piston in correctly, front side of piston facing the front?
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Old 12-07-2012, 10:35 AM   #49788
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Originally Posted by XR650L View Post
Ok

Advice needed

me and my kit for a 3 day trip weigh 330lbs

I am thinking of upgrading the rear shock with a custom made 13.5 spring from Cannonracecraft

Then the front springs from procycle - Race Tech Fork Springs - http://www.procycle.us/bikepages/xr650l.html

Which strength must I take , .6 or .7 or .8

Regards

Ask the suspension spring supplier.
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Old 12-07-2012, 10:42 AM   #49789
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Originally Posted by MentalGuru View Post
250lbs wet less fuel. So how light can a xrl be made...

I wonder how much a 60hp CW engine done to a new XLR with a CRFX fork swap and a revalved shock would cost.




All day? Sure.

There are a bunch of different seats available. Was SHOOTERDAVE on a stock seat???

A fifty state tour would be a bit much. That tour on a XRL is too much for me also.

You started this tangent..
Dammit! Thats twice today, well this morning I haverhad my ass kicked!

I think, will bet anyway, you will be able to get an XRL down to about 310/320 pounds.
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Old 12-07-2012, 11:18 AM   #49790
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fritzcoinc View Post
Ask the suspension spring supplier.
I did

Here is the answer from Cannonracecraft

"We do not have a rater here so we are unable to suggest rates. There are a couple of different websites that we use to get suggestions. Moto-pro and RaceTech are good ones."

The ones mentioned does not have springs in their inventory that is that strong

Ok

So too stiff is useless

maybe I must go 13kg at back spring ad .55 on the front springs

I have already done the Racetec Gold valves in front, it is still way to soft

???
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Old 12-07-2012, 11:29 AM   #49791
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Originally Posted by fritzcoinc View Post
Another stuipd question from me, sure you got the piston in correctly, front side of piston facing the front?
With me no such thing as a stupid question, nope its in correctly but I edited the post i must of spun the motor backwards to get that condition did it 2 more times in the correct direction and came up with .105 exhaust and .85 intake so I'm happy.
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Old 12-07-2012, 11:31 AM   #49792
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Originally Posted by fritzcoinc View Post
you will be able to get an XRL down to about 310/320 pounds.
Aiming for 290 dry but will have to wait and see what the ole porker tips the scales at when I'm done.
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Old 12-07-2012, 11:46 AM   #49793
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XR650L View Post
I did

Here is the answer from Cannonracecraft

"We do not have a rater here so we are unable to suggest rates. There are a couple of different websites that we use to get suggestions. Moto-pro and RaceTech are good ones."

The ones mentioned does not have springs in their inventory that is that strong

Ok

So too stiff is useless

maybe I must go 13kg at back spring ad .55 on the front springs

I have already done the Racetec Gold valves in front, it is still way to soft

???
Everything I was told was .55 was too light. These guys have heavier springs.

http://www.procycle.us/bikepages/xr650l.html

The Gold Valves may be the key. Since you already have those, I would email Race Tech. Gotta have something to help with the initial hit you get from the heavier springs. Race Tech also offers a Suspension Bible that everyone raves about and says is a must have.
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Old 12-07-2012, 12:18 PM   #49794
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Originally Posted by sc-razor View Post
Everything I was told was .55 was too light. These guys have heavier springs.

http://www.procycle.us/bikepages/xr650l.html

The Gold Valves may be the key. Since you already have those, I would email Race Tech. Gotta have something to help with the initial hit you get from the heavier springs. Race Tech also offers a Suspension Bible that everyone raves about and says is a must have.

XR's only has a chart on their web site.

You know I gota say, I really like the deep cushie stock suspersion on my XRL. It's the ONLY way to go on a L O N G trail ride on the rought stuff. If I want a performance suspension I jump on my Husky.
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Old 12-07-2012, 12:21 PM   #49795
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Originally Posted by fritzcoinc View Post
XR's only has a chart on their web site.

You know I gota say, I really like the deep cushie stock suspersion on my XRL. It's the ONLY way to go on a L O N G trail ride on the rought stuff. If I want a performance suspension I jump on my Husky.

Which one????

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Old 12-07-2012, 12:28 PM   #49796
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suspension theory

Might be a bit off base here but is something to think about.


One of the many jobs I have had was a "Vehicle Testing Tech" for ford motor company. While that title encompasses many things there I spent most of my time working with the "Vehicle Dynamics" groups. (they specialize in the tuning of the suspension systems) I learned a TON about damper control, spring check loads and rates, steering inputs, sway bar efforts, ect ect. The one thing I took from all of it it all truly depends on the calibration of the ass behind the wheel. Engineer X would claim the the "vehicle feels soft and unresponsive" Engineer Y would claim (same vehicle mind you with all the exact same components) the vehicle has robust handling characteristics with a sport ride quality...needless to say the asses were not calibrated to the same standard. With that being said person X setup may not please person Y even if there the same weight bike ect ect.

The springs basic job is to keep the vehicle "suspended" at the correct height vs static weight, its the dampers job to tell the spring how fast it can move. The best way to set up a bikes suspension (as i understand it) is to get the spring rates that are designated for your loaded weight I.E. rider gear big gas tank ect. Once that's done get the rear sag adjusted properly and make sure the forks are not too far compresses or expanded, set all damper clickers to "0" and take a test ride.


Depending on your observations during your ride you will get a idea how the suspension is responding, diving while braking, harsh on initial compression too easy to bottom ect ect. do this for several iterations of your damper adjustments available and make mental and recorded notes during the rides, this right here may be good enough for the old butt dyno, but if it isn't then proceed to plan for a damper re valve.


Re valving dampers realy isnt all that difficult just very time consuming to get it "just right". Ive seen way too many people jump all over the "gold valves" spending wads o cash and being disappointed with the out come because race techs calibrated ass is different from theirs. I would say for (speculating so please don't shoot me) most aplications the stock valves them self's are fine, its the shim stackup that truly effects how fast and how much oil flows past the piston ports causing the damping effect A cheep trick to try before a re valve is if the daper is "harsh feeling" (as in too much damping) to try and change the fluid to a lighter weight, same goes for the inverse if the damper feels"squishy or soft" changing to a higher weight oil can change the dampers performance. If changing the fluid type doesn't "fix" the conditions your seeing I highly recommend reading some tech articles on fork/shock valving/shimming before shelling out huge $$$, like i said it really isn't all that hard just a bit of a learning curve to it.
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Old 12-07-2012, 12:47 PM   #49797
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What I want to know about your days at Ford is, are there really as many hot female engineers running around as is shown in the commericals? AND, what happen to the Mercury chick? SEE MORE: http://www.google.com/search?q=mercury+girl+jill+wagner&hl=en&tbo=u&tbm=isch&source=univ&sa=X&ei=-kvCUJS2MsS7ygGI64GwAg&ved=0CC4QsAQ&biw=1280&bih=878

And my $.02. Sag is a rubbish method to set suspension. Measuring the sag does not yield a repeatable measurement result. measuring the overall length of the spring does.

Isn't there a song that goes something like this" goen to buy me a Mecuryand cruse it on down the road" " to Jill Wagners place and get me some" !
Yeah that the ticket!
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fritzcoinc screwed with this post 12-07-2012 at 01:08 PM
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Old 12-07-2012, 01:02 PM   #49798
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Google "Mercury Girl".....oh Yessssss
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Old 12-07-2012, 01:07 PM   #49799
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Google "Mercury Girl".....oh Yessssss

Nice....



She's the Wipe Out chick too.




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Old 12-07-2012, 01:48 PM   #49800
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Originally Posted by fritzcoinc View Post
What I want to know about your days at Ford is, are there really as many hot female engineers running around as is shown in the commericals? AND, what happen to the Mercury chick?

And my $.02. Sag is a rubbish method to set suspension. Measuring the sag does not yield a repeatable measurement result. measuring the overall length of the spring does.

Depended on the department, I had a extremely attractive power train engineer (female you silly bastages) ask me how a clutch worked one day
and unfortunately the Mercury chick went the way of the name plate, scrapped....


For discussions sake i'll bite on the sag comment

Setting sag is more or less setting the ride height up for optimum damper movement and control. We performed basically the same procedures on the test vehicles but needed a alignment rack to allow for free suspension movement. First we would unload the vehicle of any added weight (test equipment load boxes ect ect to mimic a show room vehicle) make sure the gas was full and pull the vehicle on the rack. Once the pins were removed from the floating plates we would jounce the vehicle up and down release it and wait for the suspension to settle. The measurement was usually from the outer ball joint or lower bushing to the inner control arm/link joint or bushing, the difference being the ride height. The problem with only measuring spring height is that it does not account for the suspensions "working ratio" as I like to call it, almost everything short of a beam axle with the springs directly in line with the axle tube or Forks on the motorcycles front end will have a suspension ratio. For instance raising the strut perch on a Escape 8mm would yield a 10mm increase in ride height due to the ratio of the control arm, were as putting a 10mm spring shim in a 4wd F350 equals 10mm increase in ride height. Reasons why Sag measurements seem unrepeatable can be to not paying attention to the details like fuel, gear, ect ect. and also not taking in to account the amount of "sticktion" created in the system (linkage, bushings, shock ect ect) by either jouncing the suspension with the rider off or on will create variations, hell holding both of the brakes on will throw the measurement off. The biggest thing is to try and get repeatable measurements before deciding to adjust one way or another. This seems like the best method I have found and might improve your repeatability http://www.triumphnet.com/st/acc/racetech/setup.htm .

Just measuring the Spring may seem more repeatable but it is also much less acurate as your not taking into account the suspension ratio (usually more movement at the wheel end vs the shock)
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