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Old 06-06-2006, 07:13 AM   #1846
Jeff Munn
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My public apology to you southshore650

Quote:
Originally Posted by southshore650
jeff,
i think you hit the nail on the head with your post. its just after reading some of the thread alot of questions popped up in my mind that i havent asked myself in a while. i should have PM'd Dale.

my question was a very loaded one and i dont know if i should edit the post or just drop it and go away..... i edited it. sorry again
southshore650
Your PM to me really set me on my heels. It showed that you are a true person of character, not unlike Dale. I really feel badly that I was so defensive of Dale. I apologize for the emotion in my post, but please understand my heart was in the right place.

So please do not back out of this thread. You, more than I, have the right to step up and help out, because you have been down his path. I think you can help Dale and his family in ways that few of the rest of us can. Who knows? He might even be able to help you with your introspection and personal questions.

I'm asking your forgiveness, and that you post the PM you sent me. I think this forum, and a lot of people everywhere would benefit from it. I think you'll find there are some really good people on this thread.

jeff
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Jeff Munn screwed with this post 06-06-2006 at 01:28 PM
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Old 06-06-2006, 07:27 AM   #1847
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Munn
southshore650
You PM to me really set me on my heals. It showed that you are a true person of character, not unlike Dale. I really feel bad that I got so defensive of Dale. I apologize for the emotion in my post, but please understand my heart was in the right place.

So please do not back out of this thread. You, more than I, have the right to step up and help out, because you have been down his path. I think you can help Dale and his family in ways that few of the rest of us can. Who knows? He might even be able to help you with your introspection and personal questions.

I'm asking your forgiveness, and that you post the PM you sent me. I think this forum, and a lot of people everywhere would benefit from it. I think you'll find there are some really good people on this thread.

jeff
no need for forgivness i dont feel like you did anything wrong to need to be forgivin in the first place, your just being a good friend. but so you feel better we are cool

im not too forum savy with the quotes and such with the PM and all so if you want to post a portion or the whole PM for Dale and all the other ADV riders to read at his leisure thats cool with me

edit: ill post the PM but maybe after Dale catches up on the thread

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Old 06-06-2006, 08:12 AM   #1848
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Hiya Dale
I have felt remiss, I was away for a few days on a misadventure and was out of computer contact. Hope you are enjoying the new ride.
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Old 06-06-2006, 08:46 AM   #1849
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Munn
At the risk of pissing someone off, I'm going to jump in here. I'm sure you don't realize it, but that is a very personal question to publically ask someone who is only 3 months out of a horrific accident, and is still in recovery. As a fellow spinal cord injury survivor (you, not me), I'm sure you're aware of the emotions and feelings associated with that type of traumatic injury. He has his wife's feelings to consider, his parent's, his extended ADV family's (and we are very protective), along with his own personal vision of his future life. So I don't think it is very fair to ask him that, right now, in this format. If you have support, guidance, experience or help to offer, please jump in. We all want to help, but most of us don't have the experience you two have. But a question out of the blue like that? Perhaps you need to PM him, call him, or somehow get to know him first. This is something that I don't think I'd be able to answer, nor want to answer, at least not in a public forum. Dale has a long way to go before he should even begin to think about that option. Why place the burden of making that decision on his shoulder's now? What is to be gained? To me, it seems like you're backing him into a corner that I feel he shouldn't be placed in. That's why I'm jumping in here.

Dale, you can call me, publically tell me to butt out of this, or ask me to come over and you can kick my ass personally if you want. You know I'll do whatever you ask. But I don't think this is a question that should be answered until you come to that point. I can't see any good coming from making a statement about what you'll do, or won't do, at some hypothetical time in the future. I do see you getting there someday, and when you do I know you will make the right decision, but answering that now? I just don't see the point. But that is just my two cents.

Okay jeff..... calm down..... breath deeply. Nice boy........ these people are your friends, remember? Nice boy....... calm down....

Soldiers.



Come on Jeff, pull my finger...
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Old 06-06-2006, 10:31 AM   #1850
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Quote:
Originally Posted by southshore650
jeff,
i think you hit the nail on the head with your post. its just after reading some of the thread alot of questions popped up in my mind that i havent asked myself in a while. i should have PM'd Dale.

my question was a very loaded one and i dont know if i should edit the post or just drop it and go away..... i edited it. sorry again
I appreciate the post and the response from both of you - but I particularly like the graceful way it was concluded. Shows a great deal of respect, all around. Hats off to you folks, true gentlemen (and women).

I've not really said much on this topic, because I know a group of riders won't really appreciate what I have to say about riding.

But, given what followed, I don't think the intention of the original question was anything but genuine curiousity so here's my best answer to how I feel.

I look at pictures of my past bikes to this day, and long to be on them.

I look at pictures of the wrecked bike and I don't get scared, I don't have disturbing flashbacks. I miss it.

What does bother me is the fear and anger that my loved ones have experienced as a result of my crash and injury.

I don't wish for my legs back, never have and probably never will. But I do wish almost everyday that this hadn't hurt people I love.

Will I ride again? Yes.

Will it be selfish and not entirely logical? Yes. Isn't it anyway, regardless of my current state?

Life is full of risks. We can't control most of them. But we can choose to NOT bring OPTIONAL risks into our lives, like riding. It is a selfish act. Just about every reason ever given for the passion of riding is about the RIDER. Satisfying his/her own personal desire is the point. I don't see a way around this conclusion.

It is selfish, but I will do it again, I'm sure, and feel guilty - just like I do now because my loved ones have suffered as a result of my past decision to ride, my subsequent crash, injury and disability.

The only thing that will keep me off a motorcycle is someone I love telling me they simply cannot accept it.
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Old 06-06-2006, 11:21 AM   #1851
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaleB
I appreciate the post and the response from both of you - but I particularly like the graceful way it was concluded. Shows a great deal of respect, all around. Hats off to you folks, true gentlemen (and women).

I've not really said much on this topic, because I know a group of riders won't really appreciate what I have to say about riding.

But, given what followed, I don't think the intention of the original question was anything but genuine curiousity so here's my best answer to how I feel.

I look at pictures of my past bikes to this day, and long to be on them.

I look at pictures of the wrecked bike and I don't get scared, I don't have disturbing flashbacks. I miss it.

What does bother me is the fear and anger that my loved ones have experienced as a result of my crash and injury.

I don't wish for my legs back, never have and probably never will. But I do wish almost everyday that this hadn't hurt people I love.

Will I ride again? Yes.

Will it be selfish and not entirely logical? Yes. Isn't it anyway, regardless of my current state?

Life is full of risks. We can't control most of them. But we can choose to NOT bring OPTIONAL risks into our lives, like riding. It is a selfish act. Just about every reason ever given for the passion of riding is about the RIDER. Satisfying his/her own personal desire is the point. I don't see a way around this conclusion.

It is selfish, but I will do it again, I'm sure, and feel guilty - just like I do now because my loved ones have suffered as a result of my past decision to ride, my subsequent crash, injury and disability.

The only thing that will keep me off a motorcycle is someone I love telling me they simply cannot accept it.
Dale,
nice to internet-meet you. my name is Derek, and Jeff thought others might like to read my story (the short version) and learn/get inspired from it. here is the PM i wrote to Jeff earlier today....

"thanks for calling me out there your right its a real loaded question to ask someone. i just read this thread and got a huge reality check and i felt like i had to post somthing....but my question was at the wrong time.

ill share my story.... 5 yrs ago i got med flighted to boston with both tib/fibs broken and a broken right femur and cracked sternum and fractured vertebrae. on the ambulance ride to the chopper the EMT told me he was going to snap my leg back into place and that it might hurt a bit. when i asked him if he was done yet and he said he already snapped it. i knew then that i was screwed. i was one of the very few people that has walked out of boston medical's spinal chord injury rehab, and when i got home i got on the phone with the EMT that dealt with me that night and he said if he was a gambling man he would have bet his house that i would never walk again. so needless to say i am VERY VERY lucky and very blessed and i thank everyone that helped me recover and thank god that i am able to walk ( i just cant run too good, its more of a gimp) months after the accident i repaired the bike, rode it for a while. and then sold it and got into racing quads, sold that and now have a dual sport. alll while thinking in the back of my head "should i live my life in fear that i might get hurt again and keep riding? or stop for the sake of the people that care about me and dont want to see me get hurt?" so there in lies my question to Dale.... if he recovered would he ride again? because i recovered and i now ride, but every day i feel like a cat with only one live left and that the smallest accident could put me back in a wheelchair and mabye there for life....so maybe i should stop riding. but i feel like its in my blood like a cant stop no matter what. like no matter what my loved ones say i feell like i would rather be in a wheel chair and think "im glad i kept riding even though i got hurt on a bike again and can now never walk" then think "its better to be safe i should just quit riding now" i havent asked myself these questions for a while and have started to take walking for granted....but this thread def brought all those thoughts back and i am now questioning myself"

so there it is not half as crappy as the stuff Dale deals with but i call it my "speedbump" i guess life is full of those. some people preffer to slow down for them and easily go over to not scrape the undercarriage and others jump them like doubles.... Dale....from what i have read so far is taking this speedbump head on with great integrity and strength and we should all hope to have 1/10 of his strength if faced with the same adversities

and i agree with you fully on your statement Dale, riding is greedy its all about self indulgence and if your family loves you they will understand. my family and loved ones understand but i know they still dont support it. i think they love me enough to know i want to be happy and if riding makes me happy so-be-it. but alot of me says "care for someone other than yourself and stop riding" but then another part says "you could break your neck just as bad in a cage accident" its a catch22 damnd if ya do damnd if ya dont.

anyways Dale have a good day and feel free to PM me or whatever with anything you might need that you think i coud help with... i remember when i first got back on my bike i didnt have the nerve growth to properly shift the bike (called a "drop foot") i had to lift my hole foot/leg off the peg to shift, i looked like a moron and was looking into air shifter like what is used on the drag bikes. but anyways those thoughts come later, for now....just keep working rehab is a bitch. i swear the PT therapists are like sado masochist people.
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Old 06-06-2006, 12:51 PM   #1852
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Addiction is a strange and wonderful thing when motorcycles and advrider are
involved.
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Old 06-06-2006, 01:35 PM   #1853
Jeff Munn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by southshore650
.......anyways Dale have a good day and feel free to PM me or whatever with anything you might need that you think i coud help with... i remember when i first got back on my bike i didnt have the nerve growth to properly shift the bike (called a "drop foot") i had to lift my hole foot/leg off the peg to shift, i looked like a moron and was looking into air shifter like what is used on the drag bikes. but anyways those thoughts come later, for now....just keep working rehab is a bitch. i swear the PT therapists are like sado masochist people.
Derek, thanks for staying with us and sharing, even though I gave you less than a kind welcome. Your reply and your story says worlds about you. Welcome to the thread.
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Ride to challenge yourself and to expand your horizons. But be warned, once you've ridden beyond the U.S. border, you might begin to realize that the world doesn't revolve around us......

2004 ADVRider Mileage Champion 48,350 miles

Riding Central America Feb 2006

England to China Apr-Aug 2007

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Old 06-06-2006, 02:09 PM   #1854
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Quote:
Originally Posted by geode
Hi southshore650,

Welcome to the thread. I hope you find the conversation beneficial. I think we're all learning things here about how to manage / cope with the whole spectrum of life / injury / riding / healing / responsibility.

I'm not sure, but I think Dale, Photog, you, and me are the four SCI people here.

We're all at different stages of impairment.

We're all at different levels of risk.

We're all learning from each other.

Enjoy your stay.

be well, g
+1 and nice to meet you too!

glad to hear of your recovery, also. do you know what your original diagnosis was and do you mind if I ask how long your return took and what, if any, specific rehabilitation did you find helpful?

thanks for being here and sharing your time with us!

(FYI - Macushla is also on Team Quickie but she doesn't post much these days!)

Cheers,
Dale
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Old 06-06-2006, 04:19 PM   #1855
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Quote:
Originally Posted by geode

[...]

Jennifer, my "Reesa", had fun yesterday introducing me to in-water PT. I came home bushed and went to sleep immediately. She's really busting my tail ... which is her job ... if only she wouldn't smile so much!!! She gets another go at me tomoorow!

be well, g
Wow! That sounds terrific! Water PT sounds like fun to me! Though I've been thinking about getting into a pool I've been wondering how to keep my feet from dragging on the bottom! The local Jewish Community Center has a pool with a gimp lift on it made just for folks like me! Hey, did I just call myself a gimp? And since my wife's maiden name is Nussbaum we qualify for membership .
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---------------
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'04 LemFiddyGS - sold
'84 RM125 - sold
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Old 06-06-2006, 04:22 PM   #1856
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deerslayR
Addiction is a strange and wonderful thing when motorcycles and advrider are
involved.
very strange, indeed! strange in the best possible way that strange can be, of course!
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'04 LemFiddyGS - sold
'84 RM125 - sold
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Old 06-06-2006, 04:31 PM   #1857
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaleB
Wow! That sounds terrific! Water PT sounds like fun to me! Though I've been thinking about getting into a pool I've been wondering how to keep my feet from dragging on the bottom! The local Jewish Community Center has a pool with a gimp lift on it made just for folks like me! Hey, did I just call myself a gimp? And since my wife's maiden name is Nussbaum we qualify for membership .
The local bigass pool here has a few PT/rehab classes in the warm-water pool; they've got a chair lift, etc. That's my next step is to do some weight-bearing work there--I've done a visit there and the class is full of arthritis patients and a few people that I couldn't figure out exactly what they were rehabbing from, but I haven't seen any SCI folks. Before things got really bad I was going there and doing simple walking--just walking from one side to the other--and it was a struggle...quite a workout and it didn't feel 'real good' in that typical PT beatdown we all know and love. I don't know what regimen they'd put me on now.

I'm thinking about a cable lock for my chair. I'm sorta weird about leaving it unattended while I'm halfway across the pool bobbing around like a cork. Is that nuts or normal to feel that way?
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Old 06-06-2006, 06:23 PM   #1858
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Quote:
Originally Posted by geode
Hi Photog,

I'm not sure exactly what your spinal issue is, but the PT wanted me in the pool to float and totally remove all compression from the spine. After one session I can feel a difference.

At the "Y" where I go, the re-hab pool is in a separate glass walled room next to the regular swimming team pool. All gear such as my shoes and eyeglasses or your chair would be in that room and out of the flow of non-patients. At this "Y" your chair would be safe.
That sounds nice. Our main pool is overloaded and they're planning on building another one--this one was the last one built in our area and it was completed in '88, and stays packed at all hours.

Where I go the rehab pool is adjacent to the bigass pool...no divider...and the big pool is usually crowded to the point where they're sharing lanes with a lot of people milling about. To most people a wheelchair is a wheelchair whether it's a E&J rental or a Lasher...it wouldn't surprise me if kids tried to play with it or someone wheeled it off. I guess I'm just sorta panicky about that right now.

Here's a shot of the pool...to the far, far left you can barely make out the PT section...



Working out in the pool usually wipes me out for a few hours afterwards, too. But right now it's probably the best thing I can do. My PT has always recommended pool rehab when I've been in bad enough shape that she can't do anything with me with standard PT, braces, ultrasound, and so on.

SWMBO is an excellent swimmer--used to be competitive--and she's always really supportive about going to the pool with me. I think if I can chain an attack gerbil or Trunk Monkey to the chair it'll be safe.
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Old 06-06-2006, 06:52 PM   #1859
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Quote:
Originally Posted by geode
Is the pool pic a 24mm lens on 35mm film?
I snagged it off their website.

Not much distortion...prolly at 24 at most, maybe 28...unless they cropped the hell out of it.
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Old 06-06-2006, 07:26 PM   #1860
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Quote:
Originally Posted by geode
for your chair ... get one of those motion sensor alarms ... that would stop the kids wouldn't it?
Not a bad idea.

I had one on a scoot I used to have. Scared the SNOT out of a poor kid who jostled it one day.
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