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Old 09-30-2014, 02:17 PM   #1
Greyscoot OP
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1999 Honda Elite 80

I have a chance to pick up a 1999 CH80 for $200.00. It is all intact and looks well used, but can't see anything broken or missing. The issue is that it has been sitting around for years and doesn't run. Owner doesn't know what's wrong with it. Looking for others opinions on whether or not it's worth the risk to get it operational at a reasonable cost. It has 7,500 miles on the odometer.
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Old 09-30-2014, 02:47 PM   #2
gmac
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I'm at the same stage as you are, although the bike I'm looking at runs but is older. There are a few common problems to check - cracked intake manifold, valve adjust, faulty automatic choke, cracked muffler, rusty fuel tank and gummed/clogged up float bowl. Here are a few sites I've run across that may help you;

http://www.motorscooterguide.net/Hon...0/Elite80.html

http://www.motorscooterguide.net/Man...ice_Manual.pdf

http://www.bikebandit.com/oem-parts/...0-ch80/o/m2097

Good luck
Garry
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Old 09-30-2014, 11:21 PM   #3
fullmetalscooter
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Will to start with Understand that like every honda it's got dumbass brake cuts outs. You have to hold the brakes in or it's not going to start.
To take the carb off to clean means you have to take the muffler off, The wheel off just to get at the rear carb bolt . It's in the manual.
To change the oil don't TAKE THE BOLT OUT THAT ON THE BOTTOM OF THE ENGINE CASE !!!!!!!!! that s holding cam chain in place. A common mistake the oil change bolt is on the right side by fan.
Service manual : http://www.4shared-china.com/get/8Jn...Elite_Mot.html

unlike most honda elite cracked intake manifold isn't common but it's plastic with 2 O rings on each side of it so when you take the carb off don't let them drop on the ground . As to taking the carb off You ll find that #()@$**# is what you re saying because you can only turn the bolts a small bit each time. No room . I would make certain to Use some Lock tight on each bolt and the threads. You must get it Tighten down or the nuts come lose latter on. It going to contain running even with a lost carb for a while if you don't notice it till it burns a vavle . Ether that or you re wondering what it s not starting etc. The danger is the bolt stripping out in the carb . it's happens.
But getting back to is it worth Fixing well they sell for 6oo to 1200 bucks running depending on the season and where you are at. Top speed is 47 MPH with 80 MPG . The other guys link will get you an a FREE oem service maunaul that cost 40 bucks to buy. If it's not there then Google ch80 service manual pdf. it's out there for free.
So lets start with rear wheel removal video.


OIL change :


Front tire change :

New tires 25 bucks from here: 3.50 x 10 Need if tires are 3 years old. Theres 4 nuts holding the muffler on the Rear 2 must be tight because if one goes bye bye then the muffler will crack at the pipe. Tires here http://www.scrappydogscooters.com/COMMON_PARTS.html

THE below is a cut and paiste from hondaspree.net . Full scooter wiki at http://hondaspree.net/wiki/index.php...hnical_Section

http://hondaspree.net/wiki/index.php...ck_on_the_Road
Getting a Dead Scooter Back on the Road

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This article describes how to get a dead scooter back on the road. Barn finds, garbage pickups, free, cheap, and dead scooter. All those non-runners.
There's really nothing in the service manual on how to do this. The official service manuals, available on the forum, will tell you how to do each of these steps in detail. But, first you need to know what steps to follow, and it's frankly not something that the engineers and technical writers that actually write these manuals think much about. There are a few things you can do wrong during the process that can turn a 1 hour, no-cost project into a week-long ordeal where you actually have to spend money, e.g. breaking the kick start, ruining the bearings with old oil, burning up the starter, overheating the motor b/c of missing shrouds all come to mind.
I'll break this up into steps, but I'm not going to spend a lot of time on what, exactly, you need to do. That can be found elsewhere here, and in the factory service manuals. The article's based on my personal experience getting many of these bikes, once dead, back on the road, and typically for no cost.


Contents

[hide]
Make sure that it might actually run

This seems like an obvious step, but depending where you are in life, you may or may not want to spend a lot of time getting the scooter going. First step is to check how far gone the motor is. Usually (90% of the time), they are fine, and if they're not it's obvious.
Remove the fan cover and spin the motor over. It should turn and you should feel compression. If it whirls over easily with no compression bump, put some oil in the spark plug hole; if it now has compression you will need new rings soon but may be able to get it to start... just don't run it long like that, you'll cause much more damage if there's a complete failure.
If it turns but feels gritty, you have bad bearings. This is a fairly serious issue that requires special tools. You may be better off running down another, less challenged engine.
If it's locked, it's either stuck rings or very bad bearings. WD-40 or other break-loose oil down the spark plug hole and try to break it loose over a few days. Once you get it loose it will be obvious which it is.
Wash the bike

I always do this first. Dirty bikes are annoying to work on and fixing this first takes little time.


Drain, clean, refill the gasoline and oil tanks

You've no idea what gas and/or oil was in this thing, so drain all gas and oil. Refill gas with 1/4 tank this destroys pumps and engines over the long haul. and ensure that it's working before you replace the premix gas with unmixed gas.

Check the gas tank for rust, and take appropriate action.
Check the air filter see manual to find it .

Air filters break down over a few years and turn to dust, which gets into the carb and jams up the reeds and jets so that it won't run. Before trying to start it, check to see if it's broken down and replace it. On many Honda scooter (Spree is an example) the bike will not start without the factory filter element in place, so don't even bother trying until it's in place.


Get a 12V power source

If you're optimistic, buy a 12V motorcycle battery. If not, borrow one from a friend / other motorcycle or use jumpers off your car battery. See if the starter works. Getting a dead bike going with only the kick start is a great way to destroy the kick start... you will inevitably get frustrated and break it.
When the bike is a going concern, the "kick start" is more of a "gently push the pedal" start... but you won't know that until you can get the bike running. Most noobs kick and kick and kick until they destroy the gears and/or the side cover. This is an expensive part to replace, and one of the reasons so many bikes are missing these parts.


Get gas into the carb

Suck or otherwise pull vacuum on the vacuum-operated petcock to fill the carb with gas. The petcock are sometimes jammed up; fix/replace/work around, but get gas to the carb... there is no point cranking the motor over with an empty carb; it won't fire until the carb fills, which will take 30 seconds or so of cranking... which is about how long it will take to burn up the windings on your starter, so if you insist on this method, at least do it in 3 second bursts (10 cranks at a time) so that your starter will survive the abuse.
If it starts leaking onto the ground, time to pull the carb and clean it; you have a gummed up float valve.
If you pull vacuum and get a mouthful of fuel, you likely have a blown petcock. You will need to replace it at some point, but for now you can just block it off at the tube and plug off the intake manifold (make sure to plug off the intake manifold if you do this!). Usually in this failure mode, gasoline is flowing freely from both tubes. For getting it running, this is OK. Fix it later. If you pull vacuum and get no fuel, you can try cleaning the petcock, or replace it. These parts often go wrong but are readily available and pretty cheap.
Try to start the bike

See if it will start. Crank it over... never more than ~3 seconds at a time, or 10 cranks over, or you will kill the starter. The starter's another expensive item to replace once you've killed it... typically by cranking over an engine with a dirty carb for 30 seconds and burning up the windings in the process.
If it won't start after a few tries, check spark, and then pull the carb and clean it. If it starts, runs 2 minutes, and dies, pull the carb and clean it, with special attention to the idle jet (which is clogged.) Excessive smoke is normal; the oil pumps leak and fill the bottom end with extra oil. If this is the case, plan on replacing the spark plug.


The bike won't start, now what?

  1. Clean the carb. 90% of running issues are due to the carb. If it fires with a few drops of gas put down the spark plug hole, you have a carb issue. Start reading up. These are simple carbs, but the passages are tiny... your prior experience with MC / auto carbs will be different in this respect. Those tiny jets need to flow, or it will not run.
  2. Check spark. Try replacing the plug if in any doubt... they are cheap and sometimes fouled even when they look fine on 2-stroke bikes. Make sure the plug cap is screwed down well (yes, it unscrews from the wire.)
  3. Do you have compression? If not, try oil in the plug hole and try again... you may need new rings. If there's not enough compression to blow your thumb off the spark plug hole it won't likely start
  4. Is the air filter in place? Is there an element in it?
  5. Pull the exhaust and try blowing through it... unusual, but sometimes they are completely plugged up. Clean as required.
  6. Other, rarer issue is a set of bad reeds... this is uncommon.
Once you've done the above, and it's still not going, it's time to head over to the forum and start asking questions. You either skipped a step or have something unusual going on.
Yay! It runs! Now what?

  1. First things first. Before test riding it, make sure that the brakes and kill switch work. That tires have air and are in serviceable condition. That the throttle is free and does not stick. That it will run and idle more than 2 minutes (unless you like pushing your bike home.) Nothing is going to kill your new-scooter buzz like crashing into a parked car at 30 MPH b/c your throttle sticks wide-open, your kill switch is inop and your brakes don't work to stop your crumbly, dry-rotted tires from spinning.
  2. Make sure all fan shrouds are in place... Spree, especially, seem to always be missing the top shroud. If you don't have them you will overheat and eventually kill your bike. People that say you don't need one are out there, and they are typically soft-seizing their bikes over and over again and not realizing it until it blows up 100 miles later, to their total surprize. Get or make one from sheet metal.
  3. Verify oil pump operation. Once you know it's going, fill the rest of the tank with gasoline... since you didn't fill it all the way up, the remaining oil will be pretty diluted. If the pump does not work, give it more time and check again (proper oil flow at idle is about 1 drop every 5 seconds or so.) Either fix the pump, or plan to run premix only and modify/block off the pump accordingly. Used oil pumps are typically pretty cheap items... they rarely go wrong, but when they do they will kill the engine.
  4. Check rear gears for oil. Pull the plug and tip bike; some should come out. If not, address issue or you will burn up the gears and in the process, trash the block. Fortunately, most bike have gear oil and this isn't an issue. If not, any 10-30W (or close) will work to top it off.
  5. Check if the headlight is working... a blown headlamp is usually a symptom of a bad regulator; replace the regulator before you replace the bulb or you'll just kill the new one.
You may find other issues now... that it's slow, won't launch, does weird things on the road... read up and address these as needed. Most will either be more carb issues, or driveline (belt, clutch, etc.) Read up and address issues; if you can't figure it out time to go to the forum.
Longer term things to check and fix

  1. If everything seems fine, one more test. Pull the belt cover, loosen the belt by grabbing in the center, and push on the crank fore-aft and up-down at the starter ring. There should be zero detectable play. If there is play and/or you hear a "click click," chances are there will also be bearing noise coming up from the engine; it sounds like a skateboard rolling down the road which gets louder/faster as RPMs climb. Unless you know what you're listening for you may not notice it. It means you'll need to replace the bottom end bearings soon before they completely fail. This is a serious issue; consult with the forum and either fix the bottom end or plan to find a replacement engine when it blows.
  2. Decarbonize the engine and exhaust
  3. Address low compression as needed
  4. Buy a real battery if you haven't yet, and make sure the charging system is working while you're at it.
  5. Everything else (paint, tires, bulbs, etc.)
author: noiseguy



SO is it worth getting back on the ROAD? it's going to be 10 to 20 hours max to put it back to running if it's just simple shit from carbs cleaning to tires. After that it's going to fun little scooter that goes 45 mph or 40 on small hills . I say that worth it to me.
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fullmetalscooter screwed with this post 09-30-2014 at 11:28 PM
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Old 10-01-2014, 09:30 PM   #4
Greyscoot OP
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Thank you for your replies. I drove 2 hours each way yesterday to pick it up. When I got home, I left it in the back of the pick up, waiting for a friend to come over today and help me unload it. This morning, I went through the paperwork I was given.

I found it it has been sitting for 4 years. It was running at the time, but had a bad shimmy in the back end. A repair shop determined that the motor mount bushings were shot, causing the shimmy. They also noted the following:

  1. Battery is bad, needs replacing.
  2. Front brake needs work, squeals.
  3. Drive belt needs replacement.
  4. Clutch needs inspection and possible repair.
I was concerned about the motor mount bushing issue as that is beyond my capabilities. Went over to the local Honda dealer to talk to them about it. They said it is possible the bushings are worn, but there are other reasons it could have rear end shimmy.

Since the scooter was still in the back of my truck, I left it there for them to inspect. Should hear from them in a couple of days. This is what I am working with.
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Old 10-02-2014, 03:03 PM   #5
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Well, I got the bad news from the Honda shop today.The engine compression is low and it needs a top end overhaul. The scoot actually has 11, 220 miles on it. I know these scoots last longer than that. I think this thing was ridden hard with little maintenance. I decided to have the engine pulled and fixed, at the same time, they can replace the motor mount bushings if needed. I think there is still life in the old girl, but it's going to take a lot of TLC to get her back up to snuff.
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Old 10-02-2014, 10:27 PM   #6
fullmetalscooter
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I m guessing that it s not the piston and rings but the all to common issue of burned valve . For them to rebuild the head is 2 hours for you to buy a new use one off eBay 100 bucks . Both valve are about 50 bucks to buy. new piston off ebay 25 and the rings are 20 . Shop time to do top end 2 hours I guess at 75 bucks an hour. Just a guess .
As to dropping an scooter engine that s not all that hard to do. About 2 hours for you do if you ve never done it before. The oem manual has easy to follow directions but if you don't want to that's up to you. it's about 7 bolts . Muffler etc. Drum brakes do make noise but then if it's sat it could be just handing up . Hope you head light works because New bulbs are Fing 100 bucks with no none OEM one. One person I read took an A dead one cut the old end off and put a new style auto bulb inside the original light. If you spend more then 400 bucks at the shop then you ll still not lost anything once you resell it.
As to you seat here a 20 buck new cover for it in any color you want : http://www.ebay.com/itm/HONDA-CH80-E...7b53f8&vxp=mtr
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Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body,but rather to skid in sideways totally worn out shouting WHAT A RUSH, WHAT A RIDE.
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Old 10-03-2014, 06:49 AM   #7
Jim Moore
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Let me know if you decide it's too much of a hassle. Maybe we can work something out. I'm kinda looking for a project.
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Old 10-03-2014, 04:58 PM   #8
Greyscoot OP
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I'm having the shop fix the engine. I went there and had a talk with the mechanic working on it. He has worked on these scoots before and said he owned one for three years and is familiar with them.

He told me to chill out (in so many words) because this thing is actually in pretty good shape. He noted that it is all there with no missing parts and that the plastics were in great shape except for a few minor scratches and scrapes on the front cowl, which are easy to address.

He said the brakes are fine and he doesn't recommend doing anything at this time. The squeaking noise the front brake makes when applied is not unusual, particularly for a scoot that has been sitting for a long time.

Said he checked the engine and drive train and everything was rock solid and does not believe there is a wobbling issue.

He believes that the only reason it sat for 4 years was because it quit running. He said the compression should be around 200 and the best he could get was 98, and it won't run that way.

He feels that once the engine issues are addressed it will be a good running scooter. I hope that is the case. He told me that they had one in a few months ago that was in far worse shape than this one. That one was apparently missing parts, both the lower and upper engine ends were in serious distress, neither brake worked, and the plastics were a mess. Apparently, they were able to fix everything on it and get it back on the road.

I took the seat to a local shop for a new cover. Should be ready early next week.

Happy scooting!
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Old 10-03-2014, 09:09 PM   #9
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Yep no reason you should not be able to fix any ch80 since it was in production from 1985 to 2007 . There was no real changes all those years .
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Old 10-04-2014, 07:55 AM   #10
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Thank you all for your comments. There's a story behind this and I'll try not to bore you too much.

I'm 63, retired, and have some health issues. We moved to Florida a little over two years ago from Minnesota. Our house is on a main street with lots of traffic. On nice days I sometimes sit on our front porch and watch the world go by. I kept seeing more and more scooters going by and thought it might be fun.

I talked to my wife about it and ended up getting a Chinese 50cc. I found that I liked riding around on the scooter, but the little bugger was just to slow for some of the hills and roads around here. So I sold it after less than a year.

I replaced it with a 2014 Genuine Hooligan 170i (great scoot by the way). This required I get a motorcycle license. I took the MSF coarse at a school that had scooters. The scooter I used was an Elite 80. This scoot had been studentized. None of the lights or gauges worked, both mirrors were broken off, and there was at least a roll of duct tape holding the plastics together. In spite of this, it ran great. After riding it for two days, I took a real liking to it. To me it was much better than the Chinese 50cc I had.

When I ran across the Elite in this thread, I decided to buy it as a fixer upper because the price was right. I figured I would have it as a nostalgic 80's change of pace to the Hooligan. Besides, it looked lonely and forgotten. It wanted some love (LOL). So that is how this thread came about.

Happy scooting!
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Old 10-18-2014, 02:50 PM   #11
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An update on my Elite 80 project. The top end was just worn out. Needed valves, oversize piston (.050"), and a few miscellaneous parts. The carb was disassembled and ultrasonically cleaned. There is no rust in the fuel tank, it looks like brand new. The local Honda dealer is doing the work. The engine was reassembled and low and behold, it runs. It's alive!

The bad news is that there is a loud rattle coming from the engine. The mechanic has determined that the cam chain and tensioner need replacing. Waiting on those parts.

Maybe there's hope for this project yet.
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Old 10-20-2014, 09:43 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greyscoot View Post
An update on my Elite 80 project. The top end was just worn out. Needed valves, oversize piston (.050"), and a few miscellaneous parts. The carb was disassembled and ultrasonically cleaned. There is no rust in the fuel tank, it looks like brand new. The local Honda dealer is doing the work. The engine was reassembled and low and behold, it runs. It's alive!

The bad news is that there is a loud rattle coming from the engine. The mechanic has determined that the cam chain and tensioner need replacing. Waiting on those parts.

Maybe there's hope for this project yet.

Thats sucks but again the parts are cheap I think. I wonder why they didn't check that when it was apart ?
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Old 10-21-2014, 08:00 PM   #13
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Not sure why they didn't catch it when it was apart. They seem to want to keep the repair cost as reasonable as possible and not have me spending money on things that don't need fixing.
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Old 10-24-2014, 11:08 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Greyscoot View Post
Not sure why they didn't catch it when it was apart. They seem to want to keep the repair cost as reasonable as possible and not have me spending money on things that don't need fixing.
any idea how may hours it took to do the head the first time ?
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Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body,but rather to skid in sideways totally worn out shouting WHAT A RUSH, WHAT A RIDE.
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Old 10-26-2014, 07:28 PM   #15
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Not sure. We agreed on a maximum of 5 hours labor to fix everything that needs fixing, plus parts. They are not charging me any additional labor for going back in and changing the cam chain and tensioner.
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