Highland Motors

[nsx]

My 950 Motard has a power delivery problem everywhere, not just the bottom end. Does yours have the stock airbox and filter?

Originally Posted by John in Leeds

Just take a peep at this new Highland DirtTrack

http://www.highland.se/pages.asp?pageID=25&childPage=11

Check out the weight at 129kgs and looks like they have solved the bottom end power delivery problem. They are using the twin inlet system. Could be easy to map for loads more power too.

[RedRocket]

Originally Posted by marcjs

I have added my Motard to my 'Flea Market' listing. I am selling either-or. If interested follow the link in my previous listing.

Are your bikes sold ?

[nsx]

Originally Posted by RedRocket

Are your bikes sold ?

Marcjs sold me his Motard, and he was only selling one. I rode it back to Oak Ridge from Chicago, not exceeding 4k because it had less than 100 miles when I left. It had the "bottom end power delivery problem" that John in Leeds has commented on his having. It seems, at least on mine, the problem extends into the midrange.

Marcjs has been talking to people at Highland and also the British importer, and is getting new programs for the computers. He was also advised to get rid of the airbox and the cats (not by Highland.) I completely removed the air filter, a K&N, by the way, and the bike ran much better. It's now sitting waiting for the new map. Despite the problems, I love riding the bike but am starting to wonder if I'll be able to get it to run right.

From your question I guess you are interested in buying one. Mine isn't exactly for sale, but I would talk. You can pm me.

[John in Leeds]

Originally Posted by nsx

Marcjs sold me his Motard, and he was only selling one. I rode it back to Oak Ridge from Chicago, not exceeding 4k because it had less than 100 miles when I left. It had the "bottom end power delivery problem" that John in Leeds has commented on his having. It seems, at least on mine, the problem extends into the midrange.

Marcjs has been talking to people at Highland and also the British importer, and is getting new programs for the computers. He was also advised to get rid of the airbox and the cats (not by Highland.) I completely removed the air filter, a K&N, by the way, and the bike ran much better. It's now sitting waiting for the new map. Despite the problems, I love riding the bike but am starting to wonder if I'll be able to get it to run right.

Hi NSX, I thought this thread had died so I have just been riding and enjoying my Outback and not keeping up to date.

I can't believe that you have to remove air filter and cats for decent performance with the standard map. Unfortunately we don't have access to cheap analysis systems although Marcel may have something. FWIW I don't think I will ever get rid of the roughness under 3000 rpm until the twin inlet or the modified inlet development is complete. I await that eagerly but don't expect any real progress till next year. I do know someone however who has ridden the development twin inlet model and was told it runs from idle like a sewing machine even with a development map (great for cruising).

As my bike pulls like a train from 3000 and under load smooths out less than that I find it is only a problem with posing round town and viewing the scenery. As soon as I can get going all is great with stonking power through to 8000. I have to sit on the tank to prevent wheelies when on a mission and find the top speed is much, much faster than I have the balls for on a high off roader. Right round the clock and still pulling hard, until I get seriously humiliated by a similar bike this will do fine.

Further the performance on bumpy back roads is a revalation with astonishing levels of stability and as set up gives a comfy 'old mans' ride with the wheels keeping far better contact with the ground than other bikes that ride with me.

As you have bought the motard, you are likely to have the shorter stiffer suspension and need power at the top end together with sharper braking. Top speed should be easier to handle with greater stability on smooth tarmac particularly under extreme braking and acceleration. I think on road the motor will feel a little breathless against sports bikes at the top of the rev range but just remember the Highland was designed as a very fast off road capability bike, it's quality being amazing torque and light weight. I haven't seen anything else like it.

Best of luck with the motard and I hope you have just half the fun that I am having. If you need more info feel free to pm me

John

[John in Leeds]

I thought I might share some of the off road stuff from a few Fridays ago on the Highland.



Arranged to go out in the Yorkshire Dales with 2 friends Dave (right) long time trail rider and dales trails encyclopaedia, and Stuart from Lincolnshire great rider and father of a junior national trials champion.



Both equipped with proper trail bikes weighing round 125kilos.




We took off up Nidderdale and immediately got onto the moors
Rough tracks no problem but this was a little challenging lower down.



Taking these trails so overgrown that I could not see where the wheels were tracking with many surprise of deep rut, hole, large stone or tree root. I suppose that is a good way to learn a skill.



Many river and stream crossings as we made our way up Wensleydale




On the moor top Stuart got well out of hand coming out of a bog but recovered well.



I had one or two 'tactical dismounts', fortunately gentle over on the side stuff though a back injury sustained some three months ago made picking the Highland up harder than usual. Electric foot starts straight away from a lay down.



Rounding a corner on a rough track I found Dave apparently sleeping in the middle of the road alongside his bike. He was obviously checking out his bones after a fall and we managed to right him and his bike. A painful and strangely shaped thumb was rapidly straightened -
"that's better", and the footrest and gear leaver similarly attended. Tough Hombre is Dave. And we carried on, Stuart having swapped his Suzuki for the Highland to vanish off into the distance. When we caught him up Dave complained of sore ribs but it didn?t stop him.



Riding Stewart's DR 350 (now 400) light and easy to ride on these trails. No look of fear on my face now.



Met up with some lads on Kiddstones who had just met John McGuiness (130mph lap record holder IOM TT) riding on the trails, by I?m moving in exalted company.



Stopped at West Burton for a bit of 'scran' and a breather.



Dave in recovery mode - he didn't go home early but I did.



Great day out.

[Transalp Jas]

That's some beautiful countryside you've got at your disposal.

[Oof]

Thanks again for the posts and the pic's John they are very much appreciated, and what an adventurous and beautifull landscape to ride in. What did the other guys that drove the Highland think of it? It looks to me that you had no trouble following the lightweights.

Martijn

[marcjs]

John,

That looked like one fun ride!

...And you held your own with some pretty experienced trials riders .

Great stuff - keep it coming. We've got plenty of white stuff on the ground in Chicago, and I'm still working with Highland to improve the fueling for mine and NSX's bike.

Enjoy the (hopefully) mild Bristish winter!

[John in Leeds]

Originally Posted by Oof

What did the other guys that drove the Highland think of it? It looks to me that you had no trouble following the lightweights.

Martijn

Big, fast, comfy and too heavy.



Keeping up was another issue, I still am steady on the rounded tennis ball sized stuff. They just walked away. Can't afford to do myself more damage at the moment. Obviously where there was more stability and on the road a very different issue.

[John in Leeds]

Originally Posted by marcjs

John,

That looked like one fun ride!

...And you held your own with some pretty experienced trials riders .

Great stuff - keep it coming. We've got plenty of white stuff on the ground in Chicago, and I'm still working with Highland to improve the fueling for mine and NSX's bike.

Enjoy the (hopefully) mild Bristish winter!

Don't read too much into it Marcel. Dave and Stuart were fairly kind and the lighter bikes are easier to ride on the technical stuff. It is good to know that the Highland can do a good job but there is always a trade off. Some 3 inches in saddle height, 40kgs extra weight plus an extra 10litres of fuel and a larger turning circle (not enough steering lock) put you back a bit. Still seems easier than the other big bruisers though.

With regard to the fueling, Tim has ridden the new set up and says it totally cures the problem. Whether Highland will make this available next year we will have to see. If they do I will be an early customer.

No snow here (wish there was) far better than this crap point of freezing rain and drizzle.

[Zecatfish]

ATK was at the Indy bike show, and guess what they had on display.
Highlands with ATK decals. Spose to be prototypes for a 2009 model ATK. Includes the 450MX and 950. If its not vaporware.
Posted on http://atkmotorsports.com/atkbb/viewtopic.php?t=690

By Jeff@tireballs.

[John in Leeds]

Originally Posted by Zecatfish

ATK was at the Indy bike show, and guess what they had on display.
Highlands with ATK decals. Spose to be prototypes for a 2009 model ATK. Includes the 450MX and 950. If its not vaporware.
Posted on http://atkmotorsports.com/atkbb/viewtopic.php?t=690

By Jeff@tireballs.

A new frame will allow the latest induction system to be used that works properly and gives more power. Even access to plugs and valve clearance service. About time that this engine got used properly. I won't hold my breath though.

[John in Leeds]

KTM 990 Adventure

Not everyone gets the chance to try one of these back to back with a Highland, so how did it go? Remember the Outback is a couple of years out of date (manufactured ’05) but it’s an interesting comparison anyway.

First impressions of the 990 – how sophisticated, reasonable seat height for 18r and 21f tyres, same Pirelli Scorpions as the Highland. Twin tanks, why? Lots of plastic, wouldn’t want to drop it. Starts first touch from cold and idles cleanly.

All controls where you expect them, easy clutch, quiet gear change. No vibes, beautiful, first impression as you take off, feels like a Honda Africa.

Suspension works well, no clattering over bumps and pot holes, steers evenly.

Opening up no immediate power until 4000 and an annoying hunting at steady speed and low throttle, hmm.

Open up, power in plenty really gets up and goes as the revs rise, not manic but a nice well sorted linear progression to 9000 – didn’t go over that as only just over 1000 miles on odometer. Red line to just over 9500.

Really good aerodynamics – despite a windy, blustering day went up to 100 nice and stable. Then up to 120 in top but seemed to run out of puff in the wind but very creditable for such a high bike. For comparison the Highland struggled to 110 on the same piece of road 30 minutes later (new engine running in but I don’t expect much more).

Fuel light came on and put in £5 to get back in left hand tank. Shit fuel light stayed on. Went off some 5 minutes later when (I think) fuel flowed into the right hand tank with the sender unit. A posh bike like this should have a fuel gauge.

So handling was smooth and predictable, no surprises, but no real chucking about (it’s not my bike).

Brakes twin discs on front enough power but would like more feel. Rear did some funny stuff as though some thing was catching particularly when layed over in low speed turn control situation, strange, it looked ok and had nothing loose. (later: wonder if it was the abs as it felt like it was pushing back)

Good looking bike, instruments clear and easy to read. But I look round and I wonder how long all the panels and strange placed ancillaries would survive in a rugged adventure environment.

Servicing every 4000 miles with cam check every 12000, lots of bodywork to remove and I understand quite expensive.


Comparison

	Highland Outback	KTM 990 Adventure
Engine	Rough as a bears ass	Smooth linear
Torque	Instant pull from low revs	A little soft at the bottom
Power	Does not continue up	Superb when revved
Handling	Lighter weight. Can really throw it around	Stable but more ponderous
Suspension comfort	Top on rough	Top on road
Seat	I know it’s there	What seat?
Aerodynamics	Barn door	Dolphin
Brakes	Spot on	No complaints Includes ABS
Starting	10 stabs then wait to warm up	Push and go
Instruments	Old fashioned, basic	Much better
Of the bike	Easy to push round and pick up. Does not damage easily	Has centre stand. Heavy to pick up, expensive to drop
Maintenance	Easy until main 10000 service. 20 minute oil and filter. Clearances don’t move	Has centre stand but apart from wheels, tyres brakes are easy. I don’t like the look of all that plastic
Price	Pick one up for 4grand	Twice that

If anyone is going to make the most of Highland it has start with the engine. Twin inlet to release the top end power a little more weight in the flywheel to improve the smoothness. Frame to improve access (although KTM don’t seem to bother). Some improvements to the aerodynamics and looks. That would do me – light, fast and nimble. Needs major work to make the most of that super light and torquey motor. Folan have a 1200 version but I don’t think it’s needed.

Do I want a KTM Adventure? Nice modern long distance iron, but I would want the new one next year and then the next etc etc. Not enough character for me to keep and a real money pump.


Please remember this is just a couple of hours ago and not the product of a thoughtful measured assessment.

[Tim]

A very interesting comparison John, thanks for taking the time to do it for us

[Zecatfish]

Seems like from that little comparison, The KTM is the Gold Wing of the D/S world, and the Highland is the KLX650R of the 950cc D/S world.
Well it seems that ATK is serious about this venture, I hope they pull it off, would be awesome to have truely affordable dirt capabe v-twin. But I doubt it will be affordable with the whole dollar to euro thing.