Highland Motors

[John in Leeds]

Originally Posted by Zecatfish

Seems like from that little comparison, The KTM is the Gold Wing of the D/S world, and the Highland is the KLX650R of the 950cc D/S world.
Well it seems that ATK is serious about this venture, I hope they pull it off, would be awesome to have truely affordable dirt capabe v-twin. But I doubt it will be affordable with the whole dollar to euro thing.

Interesting comparison, all I would say is that the power and torque potential of the Highland is just a tad more than the KLX. The price potential is also very good, especially is the only import into the US is the engine. Made in the US could generate serious money from export back to Europe and the rest of the world. The potential is there but who can realise it?

[Speeddog830]

John, thanks for an outstanding thread!

Any way I could convince you to crate that scooter up and ship it to me?
Trade you my GC for it.

[John in Leeds]

Originally Posted by Speeddog830

John, thanks for an outstanding thread!

Any way I could convince you to crate that scooter up and ship it to me?
Trade you my GC for it.

Nice feedback ta and sadly the GC is too far away for a swop

There is some bad news however, just before Christmas she ran a big end. I have not posted because I was hoping to get some idea of why this should happen. Rock and Road (the dealer) replaced the engine and that is now run in and performing well. It was strange because the bike was not under pressure when it went, just tooling along 85ish and a noise like a luggage strap come loose and flapping, pulled into the side and stopped motor straight away. Thought it was probably a cam chain but strip down showed a destroyed roller bearing. The engine looked well made and strong with predominantly needle and roller bearings throughout, still not got to the bottom of why it failed. I will however post when there is more information.

I fitted a cheap screen from Airblade that works very well making 100mph cruising a reallity (if I'm in a hurry) makes the motorway fast and relaxing. Also gives good protection from the heavy rain and gales we are experiencing at the moment.

As said ATK did look at producing this bike but it may be that the Chinese version gets out first. I would say however that they really do need to do some development, although the motor works really well for me it does need some smoothing out at the bottom and releasing the potential at the top. I'm sure even more weight could be pared off without loosing reliability and this would quite frankly make it unbeatable for dual purpose giving more technical off road capability with it's existing long range speed. In my humble opinion the only way other manufacturers could then compete would be by producing their own light weight high capacity motor.

[John in Leeds]

I should appologise but this is so funny

http://www.brainsweb.co.uk/uploads/the-wrong-bike.wmv

[KHVol]

That's great ....:-)

[nsx]

If anyone is feeling adventurous, I'm putting my Highland Motard up for sale. It's titled in TN, previously in IL. Give me a call if interested. Robert, 865-482-9039, rwmcbrien@yahoo.com.

[John in Leeds]

Just wanted to post some pics from Scandinavian sites




and some dual inlet mods from Fettsnok









looks like a possible diy route to sorting the bottom end problem. Will see when I get the translation.

[BarkSlayer]

ATK had a few of the Highland-built V-twins at the dealer show in Indianapolis back in February of this year. I thought they looked rather cobby, like a half finished prototype. Based on what I saw there, I'd say there's some work to be done yet.

[GreaseSnake]

Hi all you Highland fans!

Just sayin' "Hi from Sweden", thanks to John in Leeds showing me this forum. Hopefully I can bring som light into the Highland discussion.

My bike o' fun (Frame nr 11 and engine nr 7, an early test bike)
Features: SM-wheels, custom inlet and fuel system (2x40mm Tb:s) Free flowing silencers. Lowered swingarm, shortend rear suspension (To get equal level front to rear as when using offroad 18-21" wheels). Acewell dash.
(click on img to enlarge)


// Johan in Sweden

[John in Leeds]

Originally Posted by GreaseSnake

Hi all you Highland fans!

Just sayin' "Hi from Sweden", thanks to John in Leeds showing me this forum. Hopefully I can bring som light into the Highland discussion.

My bike o' fun (Frame nr 11 and engine nr 7, an early test bike)
Features: SM-wheels, custom inlet and fuel system (2x40mm Tb:s) Free flowing silencers. Lowered swingarm, shortend rear suspension (To get equal level front to rear as when using offroad 18-21" wheels). Acewell dash.

// Johan in Sweden

Hi Johan

So now I know what 'FettSnok' means

Wecome mate, it will be good to have someone here who genuinely has some Highland development experience.

I am really interested to know how you have got on with your versions of the dual independent runner system. You can see from posts here that the main problems experienced are all to do with the poor low speed running, making town work or slow traffic a real pain. We cannot always be on a mission.

[GreaseSnake]

Hi again!

Well, it's as close as it gets. "Snok" is Swedish for "Grass snake" but that would just sound silly. "Fett" is "grease" (or lard, but that's not very glorfying..) It's just another name for your "grease monkey".

Nuff with that, back to the whys and whats on the Highland 950.

As you might have seen, the stock inlet system is a bit tight. First of all, the tubing between "airbox" and throttlebody is too tight. The bend and volume over the frame pipe (wich double serve as evap connection) makes airflow on high end a bit astmatic.

Then for the single tb; it's just too small for high output.

Next thing, the "plenum" is too small for a plenum. This makes the airflow inside the "plenum" irregular. This irregular flow is caused when one cylinder opens and the other closes. The closing of intake valvs gives a "back flow" of air, disturbing flow to the other cylinder. Under some circumstances this actually helps pushing air into the other cylinder but mostly it's just bad. During low to low-mid it makes the engine run rough and gives the bike a nervous behavior because of the low air speed in the runner system. This is why the fuel-maps are separated between the two cylinders.

Older models (carburetted) used the same "plenum" but had a carburator mounted instead of the tb. Because of the single inlet, a/f had to make a 180 U-turn wich made on cylinder run rich and one run rich...
Nuff anecdotes.. Back to EFI!

It started with a test system using two separate 45mm tb:s as shown in picture below

If you look closely on the upper right you'll se the home made plate between the round runner pipe an the two round intake ports. I'ts to separate air flow between the to ports as seen on "normal" 4-port heads.. (Not on Highland though..)
If you look at the picure below this is how stock looks. Just made "the same thing" but with a lower profile to make more room for the runners between tb:s and heads.

On the above picture you can see the injector as well. Not "optimal". That's why I moved on to the next version, but it turned out that moving the injector didn't make that much difference.
I took a tb with separate throttles but with just one axle. This made sychronisation a lot easier, but mounting a bit harder

The TB is a Weber EFI conversion type, twin 40mm.
Home made intake runners between head and TB.

Not for good looks (didn't bother as it was a test originally) but works just fine. (Above) you can see the plate between the runner and the ports as mentioned before.

Then there's the air filter deal. I took two hoses and connected to the TB:s

And then I cut off the tight bends of the stock airbox. "Plastic welded" (using a heat gun and some donor plastic from the parts cut off) two connectors on the airbox. The hoses now run between the airbox and TB:s instead of stock bend between tank and frame pipe.
This is perhaps not optimal for high output, but i's not any worse than stock... On low and mid the engine runs very "neat" compared to stock. It is however not possible to make the engine behave calms as an old Rolls V12 because of the very light rotating assembly. But it's as night and day comparing stock to my version.
I should add that my intake ports are a bit narrower than they on most other bikes. I use the older heads for more low end torque as I'm found of weelieriding.. The two other bikes that runs with separated intake runners are even more "rideable" and the only difference are the larger intake ports. (these are stock and came around 2001). The latest converted bike uses stock intake plate with dito injector mounting. Works very very good!

As for tank modification, it's barely a teacup of tank volume thats removed. It's the little tip behind the TB, if you look at your tank's right side you see that I mean.

For fueling, I simple cloned the maps so both cyls run exactyl the same fuel amount. Looking at the A/F meter this seemes just right and that makes it all a lot easier! It's only half the time mapping then


Hope this gives some answers to your questions!

[nsx]

Originally Posted by GreaseSnake

... The latest converted bike uses stock intake plate with dito injector mounting. Works very very good! ...

I'm not sure what this means. I want to go the easiest route. I buy a Weber throttle body and then fabricate an intake manifold? It's hard to make out details of the manifold in the pictures. Could you please elaborate on how the manifold is constructed?

I really appreciate your giving us this info. Thanks so much.

Robert in Oak Ridge

[GreaseSnake]

Originally Posted by nsx

I'm not sure what this means. I want to go the easiest route. I buy a Weber throttle body and then fabricate an intake manifold? It's hard to make out details of the manifold in the pictures. Could you please elaborate on how the manifold is constructed?

I really appreciate your giving us this info. Thanks so much.

Robert in Oak Ridge

I'll try to get my 'ol camera out and get you some pictures before my vacation (and time for fun with the Highland, Mille and Gixxr) runs out

If the pics aren't up before weekend, ask John here to kick me where it hurts! (He's got my mail)

Your freind in the greasy business,

Johan

Edit: A little look back at my trip to North Cape last month -->

[John in Leeds]

Originally Posted by nsx

I'm not sure what this means. I want to go the easiest route. I buy a Weber throttle body and then fabricate an intake manifold? It's hard to make out details of the manifold in the pictures. Could you please elaborate on how the manifold is constructed?

I really appreciate your giving us this info. Thanks so much.

Robert in Oak Ridge

If there were enough takers it might be a good idea to see about getting a pair of manifolds fabricated for casting. It seems to me that this is what is needed to make the bikes realise their potential.

I also think I need to listen to Johan's experiences for a while just to get a flavour of what is possible and what he intends to do with his new system.

Also as engine production is likely to start in China very soon (I cannot believe they will use the original system) they may have an upgraded manifold and inlet system ready to bolt straight on. Just some ideas

Could be an exciting end to the year

[GreaseSnake]

Well, I might as well give you a litte taste of my oldschool (yep, it's plain old) bike http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hbC09k-bNsI
There's nothing wrong, it sounds like that," thin walls around the timing chain is one reason. Of many, so don't let " rattlin' scare you off. Well, mine is a bit noisier than many others thanks to my timing chain drive modification..
(Nothing to take notice to if you dont have one of the older engines.)

Tried filming with my actioncam as well, mounted on the helmet, wasn't any fun to watch.. I'll try again tomorrow