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Old 11-15-2009, 12:28 PM   #29131
NordieBoy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyclepath
you are right at 3,500 rpm. total torgue improvement at 5000 rpm is only 3.79. not to impressive. what is your fuel mileage at for such a small improvement.
Quote:
Originally Posted by procycle
An 8% improvement from simple modifications isn't impressive??
It's quite comparable to switching from a 15T sprocket to a 14T sprocket which comes in at about a 7% increase in torque at the rear wheel.

Thinking of it another way, with the 3.79 ft/lb increase in torque your bike would accelerate faster with a 16T front sprocket than without the mods and stock gearing.

But the 8% increase is only part of the story. If you look at the graph the modified bike makes more torque from about 3500 rpm to almost 6000 rpm than it did at it's peak when all was stock. That's significantly more power over pretty much the whole usable power spread. If you could ride these back to back you would be shocked at the difference.
What he said

That graph was when I only had the DynoJet kit, airbox top and SuperTrapp done.

Effectively pulls from 3,500 like a stock bike does at peak.

I'm getting just over 20km/L in normal stop/start usage around town. Up to 22km/L in the hills/adventuring.

We did a 500km gravel adventure ride on Sat and the Avon Gripster rear was not very nice on gravel but I doubled someone out through some quite rough terrain and was amazed how it handled it engine wise and tyre wise. The extra weight pushed the tyre into the ground and it gripped the best it'd done all day.
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Old 11-15-2009, 12:33 PM   #29132
NordieBoy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buckaroo Banzai
The dynojet kit doesn't come with much. It believe it's about 4 main jets and the needle with the eclip.

If I were going to do it again, I would probably just get the needle from KTM, that allows you to move it up and down with the eclip.

And find out what the dynojet convert to in the mikuni jets.

That is an option that is much cheaper.
MX rob did a needle comparison a while back. So you could could check there for some more information.

I believe you could just use the mikuni main jet with the KTM needle and end up with the same results and a whole lot cheaper.

Correct me if I'm wrong .. But I think the KTM needle and mikuni jets will work.
The KTM needle is the best for the unmodified stock airbox.

The DJ kit came with 150, 155, 160 jets down here. I think the yanks get 165, 170 added.

The DJ 150 is the same as the stock Mikuni.

150 is too lean for any sort of modding and 170 is too rich for any sort of modding.
What more do you need?
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Old 11-15-2009, 12:54 PM   #29133
Inprogress
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jenx
Howzit Inprogress

Glad you're enjoying the bike.

67K and still going strong. That's amazing!! I'm planning to do Baviaans next year. So I'll be in your part of the world. Probably middle/end of the year.

Hey where were those pics taken? Looks like the langkloof area ... Nice!
As far as I know its the Langkloof area, not so sure actually, I just know its the Elandsrevier road. Went up to the radio tower. Well spotted though. I saw some of the pics on the WD forum with that picture threat about spotting the location, and it made me realize I haven't traveled enough. SO.....now I want to do as little wrenching as possible and as much riding as permitted. No more big rebuilds and restorations, unless I have everything I need already purchased and waiting and have two solid weeks of just concentrating on the tear down and assembly.

When you come down I might join you, haven't done the Baviaans actually . Yes I know. My last ride was about a year ago. The PE Mystery ride. Eversince then I got into an R80 and then a restoration and now I'm gatvol and just want to get on a bike, press that happy button and go.

Happy trails.
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Old 11-15-2009, 02:51 PM   #29134
tjoseph
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It's cream

Yea, it's useful. In about 2% of my riding. But I find that I'm rarely in need of peak torque. For my particular style of riding, my bike rarely gets to wide open throttle. I'd spend money on handling mods, better tires, and lots of other items before I'd go looking for more power from the bike, particularly if that bit of power comes with a hacked up airbox that is going to increase noise levels and suck in water during stream crossings. Now if it's addressing real rideability problems - such as lean surge - I can see tinkering. But in my experience, things like dynojet kits rarely make more power that you actually use, they just burn more fuel. Lean surge can usually be cured by the pilot screw adjustment or a washer under the jet needle, and nothing more. Same reason I don't recommend aftermarket exhausts. The minor power increase comes at a major increase in noise. All the energy spent chasing a couple of foot lbs. or HP would be better spent for most riders by actually practicing their skills a bit.

The factory engineers aren't morons, you know. They know how to make more power too. But they reach compromises of power production, in order to do other things - including having the intake system quieter, keeping junk out of the intake tract, meeting emission controls, and providing better fuel economy. For some, that isn't a compromise worth taking. I'm different in that regard. I've never found the stock power production that limiting. I pretty regularly ride my DR at 80+ mph, and I've never found a hillclimb the bike couldn't do because of its power production. If I want to ride considerably faster than that, or terrain more rough than that, I just take another bike. I'm not suggesting nobody should modify the bike for more power, but personally those are the mods I would either not do at all, or only do if lots of other stuff had already been done to the bike. It's just in my view, more power isn't even close to the top of the list of improvements to be made to the bike.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NordieBoy
So you don't think that having the torque at 3000rpm that the stock bike does at peak (5000rpm) is useful?

Dynojet kit + open pipe.
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Old 11-15-2009, 03:38 PM   #29135
Elvis70
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secondary filter cleaning and oiling question

I bought one of the uni secondary filters from pro cycle. I've got some K&N filter cleaner and oil left over from a previous vehicle with a K&N. Is that allright to use on that little secondary filter?
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Old 11-15-2009, 04:05 PM   #29136
Ralph64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tjoseph
Yea, it's useful. In about 2% of my riding. But I find that I'm rarely in need of peak torque. For my particular style of riding, my bike rarely gets to wide open throttle. I'd spend money on handling mods, better tires, and lots of other items before I'd go looking for more power from the bike, particularly if that bit of power comes with a hacked up airbox that is going to increase noise levels and suck in water during stream crossings. Now if it's addressing real rideability problems - such as lean surge - I can see tinkering. But in my experience, things like dynojet kits rarely make more power that you actually use, they just burn more fuel. Lean surge can usually be cured by the pilot screw adjustment or a washer under the jet needle, and nothing more. Same reason I don't recommend aftermarket exhausts. The minor power increase comes at a major increase in noise. All the energy spent chasing a couple of foot lbs. or HP would be better spent for most riders by actually practicing their skills a bit.

The factory engineers aren't morons, you know. They know how to make more power too. But they reach compromises of power production, in order to do other things - including having the intake system quieter, keeping junk out of the intake tract, meeting emission controls, and providing better fuel economy. For some, that isn't a compromise worth taking. I'm different in that regard. I've never found the stock power production that limiting. I pretty regularly ride my DR at 80+ mph, and I've never found a hillclimb the bike couldn't do because of its power production. If I want to ride considerably faster than that, or terrain more rough than that, I just take another bike. I'm not suggesting nobody should modify the bike for more power, but personally those are the mods I would either not do at all, or only do if lots of other stuff had already been done to the bike. It's just in my view, more power isn't even close to the top of the list of improvements to be made to the bike.
I can understand what you are saying to a point, but that almost reads like a soap box rant . I rode my bike with the engine almost completely stock for nearly 80,000km of touring in Eastern & Western Europe, Middle East, Central Asia, SE Asia, Australia and many trips to NW Africa. It has served me well as an inexpensive, quiet and reasonably economical touring bike. Other than the occasional trip to NW Africa this bikes extended touring days are over. The engine is showing its age. I hope to be able to pull the motor out for a rebuild at the end of winter and it will receive a forged piston, TM40, etc, while still trying to maintain a degree of decency in the area of noise.
Why? For the same reason many other people do... because I can and I want to. That is the only reason that matters worth a damn. If you are happy with your bike as it is then more power to you.

Cheers

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Old 11-15-2009, 04:07 PM   #29137
Ralph64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elvis70
I bought one of the uni secondary filters from pro cycle. I've got some K&N filter cleaner and oil left over from a previous vehicle with a K&N. Is that allright to use on that little secondary filter?
It'll be fine. Better if you remember to clean both filters together every time and not neglect the secondary.

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Old 11-15-2009, 05:22 PM   #29138
drsmiley
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Handguards and Bars

I'm planning on putting Cycra Probend Handguards on my 08 DR650, was thinking about getting new bars also, should i get 1 1/8" or 7/8"? If i get the Pro Taper EVO bars what bend is equal to the stock bars, and I know I'll gain 3/4" with the clamps. Also what is a good comfortable grip to go with? Any info appreciated!
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Old 11-15-2009, 05:40 PM   #29139
Elvis70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drsmiley
I'm planning on putting Cycra Probend Handguards on my 08 DR650, was thinking about getting new bars also, should i get 1 1/8" or 7/8"? If i get the Pro Taper EVO bars what bend is equal to the stock bars, and I know I'll gain 3/4" with the clamps. Also what is a good comfortable grip to go with? Any info appreciated!
Bar size is your call. I have the 7/8ths. I like the look of the padded crossbar. But now I am thinking the the fat bars might be better for less clutter. I have Pro Taper 7/8ths CR mid bend and just about the same as stock. The pro-taper pillow top grips are nice too(what I got).
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Old 11-15-2009, 06:04 PM   #29140
Zapp22
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Bluhduh CONFESSIONAL: I goofed a wheel... lesson learned

They say confession good for the soul.

Put 2 new tires on my trusty 'ole '97 - IRC GP1's... had previously fallen in love with them on the '02.
pulled the wheels, don't have tire tools properly, so took wheels and tires and tubes to the local shop. they put 'em on and spin balanced. I took 'em home and put the wheels back on just like I had removed them... so I thought. Everything LOOKED right and I double checked the work vs. the '02 and vs. the Shop Manual. But in my gut I kept feeling like something was amiss. went for very short drive. didn't hear or feel anything strange but I was still struggling with that nagging something. Next day the dealer called and left message; "found a spacer laying around the shop... is it yours?". So with the shop manual on my screen I called them back and the guy there pulled up the same. we both snooped the diagram and both of us missed the spacer. He concluded it belonged to another job.

So I went for a 10 mile jaunt and had that nagging something.... ran ok, I thought, and rolled ok, until I applied the back brake going into a turn and when I pivoted right to look for traffic etc I hear a faint "eekk.. eeekkk.. eeekk" through my helmet. stopped, looked everything over. didn't see anything odd. But by the time I rolled into the driveway I was getting a 'lumpy' back brake feel. The missing spacer is/was the one that keeps the caliper at the proper attitude vis the hub!!!! the Caliper bolt was extended through its hole/seat just barely... just barely enough that the end of it shaved off against the rotor. fortunately, the caliper endured most of the damage, and its in a strong spot so I think all is serviceable. I had to chip off some bolt residue from the rotor using hand pressure and a wedge!!! yikes. Got the spacer back and re-installed everything.

sheesh.. you would think that having done this before I would remember everything, but I didn't. too long between tire changes.
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Old 11-15-2009, 08:01 PM   #29141
Cyclepath
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Quote:
Originally Posted by procycle
An 8% improvement from simple modifications isn't impressive??
It's quite comparable to switching from a 15T sprocket to a 14T sprocket which comes in at about a 7% increase in torque at the rear wheel.

Thinking of it another way, with the 3.79 ft/lb increase in torque your bike would accelerate faster with a 16T front sprocket than without the mods and stock gearing.

But the 8% increase is only part of the story. If you look at the graph the modified bike makes more torque from about 3500 rpm to almost 6000 rpm than it did at it's peak when all was stock. That's significantly more power over pretty much the whole usable power spread. If you could ride these back to back you would be shocked at the difference.
hello procycle, i worked in the experimental research and development lab for kiekhaefer aeromarine for quite a few years. so yes i understand the charts. the dyno room was one of my favorite places. so as far as i'm concerned what you are calling an 8% increase is not worth the time and expence involved. especially if i have to put up with a 13 mpg decrease in fuel milage. for some reason my bike has always got between 63 and 58 mpg. stock 08 with only the idle mixture screw adjustment. i also tried the remove snorkel, shim under needle, hole in slide, backfire screen removed and it also dropped my mileage way to far to justify the pathetic increase in performance if you could even call it that.

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Old 11-15-2009, 08:23 PM   #29142
NordieBoy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zapp22
sheesh.. you would think that having done this before I would remember everything, but I didn't. too long between tire changes.
Yep. The good old cush drive spacer...

Been there - done that.
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Old 11-15-2009, 08:36 PM   #29143
procycle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tjoseph
But in my experience, things like dynojet kits rarely make more power that you actually use, they just burn more fuel.
Only if the person doing the tuning sets it up too rich - which is an easy mistake to make. When properly jetted the DR will easily get 50+ mpg along with a big improvement in driveability and better power delivery.
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Old 11-15-2009, 08:48 PM   #29144
NordieBoy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by procycle
Only if the person doing the tuning sets it up too rich - which is an easy mistake to make.
Especially if you follow DynoJet's instructions.
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Old 11-16-2009, 01:17 AM   #29145
Blake Kennedy
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The reason I am chasing power gains is part of the whole reason I bought this bike. I ride with a mate on gravel roads that has a TE570 (heaps more power than a DR650) and I also want to do some adventure style riding.
I made a compromise when buying the bike so I am just trying to get it closer to being competative with the Husky. I could have bought another husky but the adventure side would be too expensive on a husky for me.
If I can get a healthy 50hp out of the DR just by making it breathe a bit better and a bit more fuel it will make the bike better for what I want to use it for. So for me the compromise of power vs economy, Power wins.

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