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Old 10-07-2011, 01:09 PM   #55216
B1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vintagespeed View Post
it does if the shim is above the spring seat and inside the spring thus not affecting spring preload, the stock needle doesn't have a clip.
australian model does have different clip positions, just in case anyone is living the right-side-up hemisphere.
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Old 10-07-2011, 01:22 PM   #55217
motolab
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rumlover View Post
I would think the reduction in lift is pretty small compared to the gain made at the needle and overall performance, especially when talking about shims of .05" or less (which seems to be about average for those that have done it).
How do you figure?
Quote:
I would like to hear what the consequences of cutting the spring would be also? Would lift be the same, just dampened?
Cutting the spring increases the spring rate, but reduces the preload. The general trend will be sightly less force required to get the slide to move off of the stop, but more force required to get it to open all the way. The spring rate and preload do not affect damping in any way. Damping is controlled by slide lift hole number and size.

One thing I forgot to mention before is that the additional preload from shimming the needle will make the slide come off the stop at a later point in terms of rpm and throttle position (i.e. more velocity will be required to get it to come up off of the stop).

Regards,

Derek
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Old 10-07-2011, 01:27 PM   #55218
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Originally Posted by Adv Grifter View Post
...Many aren't doing the ride to "integrate" with local culture, and just yell louder in English to be understood. For them, it's all about them and furthering their Adventure career (film, book, website) ... and collecting stickers on the panniers and stamps in passport are of paramount importance. These are the "achievers"...
That is probably the single most salient point ever made on advider! Thank you!

What's travel if you don't immerse yourself in your surroundings and the local culture!

On a week-long ride through British Columbia last year, my wife said, "I never want to travel by car again! On a bike, you're in the environment, experiencing it. In a car, you're just a tourist."
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Old 10-07-2011, 01:37 PM   #55219
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Quote:
Originally Posted by motolab View Post
How do you figure?
Regards,

Derek
Not very well. Like I said I could be wrong. My thought is/was that even though the slide is rising less for any given air velocity, the needle is still higher in relation to the needle jet for any given slide height (because of the shim -- same as changing a clip position on a needle that has more then one). The end result is a richer mixture in the midrange.

I retain the right to be wrong
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Old 10-07-2011, 01:44 PM   #55220
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vintagespeed View Post
it does if the shim is above the spring seat and inside the spring thus not affecting spring preload, the stock needle doesn't have a clip.



edit:

i'll have to check mine to be sure, but i wouldn't have put the shim UNDER the spring seat as it'd just fall off and that would be silly. lol
If the shim is above the spring seat, it can't raise the needle, unless you say you installed the clip above the spring seat as well (a stock needle does come with and is supposed to have clip installed). If you installed the needle with the clip above the spring seat the needle will be free to bounce, as the seat bearing on the clip is supposed to hold it captive. Once again, the shim must go under the clip (which is under the spring seat). This should help:



Regards,

Derek
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Old 10-07-2011, 01:52 PM   #55221
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rumlover View Post
Not very well. Like I said I could be wrong. My thought is/was that even though the slide is rising less for any given air velocity, the needle is still higher in relation to the needle jet for any given slide height (because of the shim -- same as changing a clip position on a needle that has more then one). The end result is a richer mixture in the midrange.

I retain the right to be wrong
Think of it this way: Lowering the clip position raises the needle relative to the emulsion tube (without lowering the slide), whereas shimming the needle clip lowers the slide relative to the emulsion tube (without raising the needle). Now, there is an exception to this, and that is when the slide is against the stop. During that condition, a shim does raise the needle in relationship to the emulsion tube.

Regards,

Derek

motolab screwed with this post 10-07-2011 at 03:22 PM
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Old 10-07-2011, 01:58 PM   #55222
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Originally Posted by newone View Post
Thanks. I think it would be difficult to find. DR is not the most popular motorcycle in Russia. :)
Sorry, Bro. I didn't even look to see where it is you are located. Maybe you can find some on ebay or something. Good luck!
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Old 10-07-2011, 02:09 PM   #55223
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Quote:
Originally Posted by motolab View Post
Think of it this way: Changing the clip position raises the needle relative to the emulsion tube (without lowering the slide), whereas shimming the needle clip lowers the slide relative to the emulsion tube (without raising the needle). Now, there is an exception to this, and that is when the slide is against the stop. During that condition, a shim does raise the needle in relationship to the emulsion tube.

Regards,

Derek
I will try to clarify my point. I understand that increasing preload makes the slide require more air velocity to achieve a given height. I equate that as also more air volume entering the engine. So the question in my mind is shimming the needle going to allow enough more gas into the airstream to not only compensate for the increase volume but also slightly richen it. I think it does, and I don't think the slight amount of preload is enough to really make a hill of beans difference in reality.
Anyways that is my theory and for the sake of the thread (and not to get bogged down) I will defer to your expertise.
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Old 10-07-2011, 02:38 PM   #55224
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Foot dragger View Post
Its automatic,no need to fool with it
DR650 cam chains dont wear out any quicker then any other bike.
So has anyone needed to replace a camchain because of wear? What mileage does this occur?
My buddies TE610 needed a camchain at 10,000 mi. Those were problem chains I know, but the lack of discussion here makes me think, "it'll last longer than bike"
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Old 10-07-2011, 02:40 PM   #55225
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Quote:
Originally Posted by motolab View Post
If the shim is above the spring seat, it can't raise the needle.........Derek
well man, i guess you just dont understand what i'm saying or maybe there's a difference in YOUR model?

the shim above the spring seat on the needle raises the needle in the seat, thus raising the needle in the slide.

as long as the shim fits inside the spring on top of the seat, it wont affect the spring rate in any way. and i'm pretty sure that's how i installed it, i'm not new to carbs.

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Old 10-07-2011, 02:41 PM   #55226
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The only reason people put a shim under the clip is because the needle only has one clip position in some countries.
Lower the clip or shim under the clip is the same thing,the needle taper is raised in the needle jet.
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Old 10-07-2011, 03:18 PM   #55227
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vintagespeed View Post
well man, i guess you just dont understand what i'm saying or maybe there's a difference in YOUR model?

the shim above the spring seat on the needle raises the needle in the seat, thus raising the needle in the slide.

as long as the shim fits inside the spring on top of the seat, it wont affect the spring rate in any way. and i'm pretty sure that's how i installed it, i'm not new to carbs.

Did you have a look at the diagram?

Regards,

Derek
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Old 10-07-2011, 03:20 PM   #55228
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ADV8 View Post
The only reason people put a shim under the clip is because the needle only has one clip position in some countries.
Correct!
Quote:
Lower the clip or shim under the clip is the same thing,the needle taper is raised in the needle jet.
Incorrect! As already explained, it is not the same thing.

Regards,

Derek
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Old 10-07-2011, 03:23 PM   #55229
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adv Grifter View Post
Hey Phil,
Not sure how securely you've mounted the Aux fuel can ... but on rough Morocco wash board I could see the mounting hardware work hardening and snapping off in a couple days of off road hammering.

I would make sure the fuel can is strapped on with bungee cords or Roc straps (STRONG!) to add security off road. 5 liters isn't much but better than nothing. Best to have 19 liters (5 US gallons ... like IMS tank)

Check out Colebatch's latest Morocco ride report. He documents some great places to explore there:

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=727119
Cheers AdvG for the input
I've give it a couple of HARD test runs and seems to be holding up fine , but as you say i will be Roc strapping it aswell. The stock tank hold 13 lts plus 5lts in the can is only slightly less than the IMS !!! Also been taking an account of Kms per Lt and the worst i've got is 22 km / ltr = 286 per tank + 110 Aux !!!! thick end of 400 klicks and if all fails i'll find a camel
Phil
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Old 10-07-2011, 04:09 PM   #55230
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Eek

Quote:
Originally Posted by motolab View Post
Did you have a look at the diagram?

Regards,

Derek
yes i did. i do not have an e-clip on my needle. the spacer fits over the needle from the pointed tip up and sits on a shelf on the needle itself. i installed the shim between this shelf and the spacer, then the spring sits on top of the spacer inside the slide.

edit:

the spacer i refer to being item #22 on the diagram.
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TAT-2013: http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=913898
SoCal_NoDak-2012: http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=829203

vintagespeed screwed with this post 10-07-2011 at 04:12 PM Reason: clarification
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