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Old 10-07-2011, 12:52 PM   #55246
motolab
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rumlover View Post
Not very well. Like I said I could be wrong. My thought is/was that even though the slide is rising less for any given air velocity, the needle is still higher in relation to the needle jet for any given slide height (because of the shim -- same as changing a clip position on a needle that has more then one). The end result is a richer mixture in the midrange.

I retain the right to be wrong
Think of it this way: Lowering the clip position raises the needle relative to the emulsion tube (without lowering the slide), whereas shimming the needle clip lowers the slide relative to the emulsion tube (without raising the needle). Now, there is an exception to this, and that is when the slide is against the stop. During that condition, a shim does raise the needle in relationship to the emulsion tube.

Regards,

Derek

motolab screwed with this post 10-07-2011 at 02:22 PM
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Old 10-07-2011, 12:58 PM   #55247
Grizz Adams
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Originally Posted by newone View Post
Thanks. I think it would be difficult to find. DR is not the most popular motorcycle in Russia. :)
Sorry, Bro. I didn't even look to see where it is you are located. Maybe you can find some on ebay or something. Good luck!
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Old 10-07-2011, 01:09 PM   #55248
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Quote:
Originally Posted by motolab View Post
Think of it this way: Changing the clip position raises the needle relative to the emulsion tube (without lowering the slide), whereas shimming the needle clip lowers the slide relative to the emulsion tube (without raising the needle). Now, there is an exception to this, and that is when the slide is against the stop. During that condition, a shim does raise the needle in relationship to the emulsion tube.

Regards,

Derek
I will try to clarify my point. I understand that increasing preload makes the slide require more air velocity to achieve a given height. I equate that as also more air volume entering the engine. So the question in my mind is shimming the needle going to allow enough more gas into the airstream to not only compensate for the increase volume but also slightly richen it. I think it does, and I don't think the slight amount of preload is enough to really make a hill of beans difference in reality.
Anyways that is my theory and for the sake of the thread (and not to get bogged down) I will defer to your expertise.
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Old 10-07-2011, 01:38 PM   #55249
Rusty Rocket
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Originally Posted by Foot dragger View Post
Its automatic,no need to fool with it
DR650 cam chains dont wear out any quicker then any other bike.
So has anyone needed to replace a camchain because of wear? What mileage does this occur?
My buddies TE610 needed a camchain at 10,000 mi. Those were problem chains I know, but the lack of discussion here makes me think, "it'll last longer than bike"
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Old 10-07-2011, 01:40 PM   #55250
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Quote:
Originally Posted by motolab View Post
If the shim is above the spring seat, it can't raise the needle.........Derek
well man, i guess you just dont understand what i'm saying or maybe there's a difference in YOUR model?

the shim above the spring seat on the needle raises the needle in the seat, thus raising the needle in the slide.

as long as the shim fits inside the spring on top of the seat, it wont affect the spring rate in any way. and i'm pretty sure that's how i installed it, i'm not new to carbs.

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TAT-2013: http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=913898
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Old 10-07-2011, 01:41 PM   #55251
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The only reason people put a shim under the clip is because the needle only has one clip position in some countries.
Lower the clip or shim under the clip is the same thing,the needle taper is raised in the needle jet.
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Old 10-07-2011, 02:18 PM   #55252
motolab
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vintagespeed View Post
well man, i guess you just dont understand what i'm saying or maybe there's a difference in YOUR model?

the shim above the spring seat on the needle raises the needle in the seat, thus raising the needle in the slide.

as long as the shim fits inside the spring on top of the seat, it wont affect the spring rate in any way. and i'm pretty sure that's how i installed it, i'm not new to carbs.

Did you have a look at the diagram?

Regards,

Derek
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Old 10-07-2011, 02:20 PM   #55253
motolab
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ADV8 View Post
The only reason people put a shim under the clip is because the needle only has one clip position in some countries.
Correct!
Quote:
Lower the clip or shim under the clip is the same thing,the needle taper is raised in the needle jet.
Incorrect! As already explained, it is not the same thing.

Regards,

Derek
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Old 10-07-2011, 02:23 PM   #55254
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Originally Posted by Adv Grifter View Post
Hey Phil,
Not sure how securely you've mounted the Aux fuel can ... but on rough Morocco wash board I could see the mounting hardware work hardening and snapping off in a couple days of off road hammering.

I would make sure the fuel can is strapped on with bungee cords or Roc straps (STRONG!) to add security off road. 5 liters isn't much but better than nothing. Best to have 19 liters (5 US gallons ... like IMS tank)

Check out Colebatch's latest Morocco ride report. He documents some great places to explore there:

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=727119
Cheers AdvG for the input
I've give it a couple of HARD test runs and seems to be holding up fine , but as you say i will be Roc strapping it aswell. The stock tank hold 13 lts plus 5lts in the can is only slightly less than the IMS !!! Also been taking an account of Kms per Lt and the worst i've got is 22 km / ltr = 286 per tank + 110 Aux !!!! thick end of 400 klicks and if all fails i'll find a camel
Phil
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Old 10-07-2011, 03:09 PM   #55255
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Eek

Quote:
Originally Posted by motolab View Post
Did you have a look at the diagram?

Regards,

Derek
yes i did. i do not have an e-clip on my needle. the spacer fits over the needle from the pointed tip up and sits on a shelf on the needle itself. i installed the shim between this shelf and the spacer, then the spring sits on top of the spacer inside the slide.

edit:

the spacer i refer to being item #22 on the diagram.
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TAT-2013: http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=913898
SoCal_NoDak-2012: http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=829203

vintagespeed screwed with this post 10-07-2011 at 03:12 PM Reason: clarification
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Old 10-07-2011, 03:19 PM   #55256
jon_l
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Foot dragger View Post
I wont soon put another knobby on my plated DRZe,trials tire hooks up so good its like cheating!
They only come in 18" so a no go on a DR.
And 21" of course. Have you used the front?

I see quite a few serious enduro guys off-road racing on trials tires (rear only, as best I recall) these days, so I expect them to work well off-road. My concern is more how the front works on and off pavement.

I know the D606 is good, but it is noisy on the road, and the trials tire is both cheaper and according to most people, very good off-road.
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jon_l screwed with this post 10-07-2011 at 03:28 PM
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Old 10-07-2011, 03:27 PM   #55257
motolab
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vintagespeed View Post
yes i did. i do not have an e-clip on my needle. the spacer fits over the needle from the pointed tip up and sits on a shelf on the needle itself. i installed the shim between this shelf and the spacer, then the spring sits on top of the spacer inside the slide.

edit:

the spacer i refer to being item #22 on the diagram.
The spring is supposed to sit on the spring seat, which is item #20. You must have some non-oem parts installed in your carb, as a stock needle has a clip groove and no shelf.

Regards,

Derek
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Old 10-07-2011, 03:37 PM   #55258
vintagespeed
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Puke

Quote:
Originally Posted by motolab View Post
...You must have some non-oem parts installed in your carb, as a stock needle has a clip groove and no shelf....
here is where you're confused. my bike was (when i bought it) all stock '06 california-emissions US model. your carb might be different.
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TAT-2013: http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=913898
SoCal_NoDak-2012: http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=829203
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Old 10-07-2011, 04:05 PM   #55259
motolab
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Originally Posted by vintagespeed View Post
here is where you're confused. my bike was (when i bought it) all stock '06 california-emissions US model. your carb might be different.
No sir. The parts diagram I provided is for an '06 model, there is no complete separate parts listing for California vs. other US markets, and Suzuki makes no distinction between California and other US markets on the carb diagram.

Regards,

Derek
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Old 10-07-2011, 04:25 PM   #55260
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Originally Posted by doug s. View Post
can't speak for the drz400, but i do know the rm125 (and i suspect the rm250 as well) is a direct plug-n-play...

oh ya - the hub also came from the rm125; re-laced to the wheel that was on my stock forks...

doug s.

What size rim and tire are you running in the front?? I've got a set of 2001 Rm125 forks on my Dr650 right now.. The tire is rubbing on the forks when I brake, I'm running a 120 with a 3.5" rim.
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