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Old 10-09-2011, 12:14 PM   #55336
procycle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by motolab View Post
cannot assume that the slide height is correct for the given combination of throttle position and rpm to begin with.
We already know that pretty much nothing about the stock DR650 jetting setup is correct. The point is to be able to improve it with seat of the pants testing. Removing the snorkel and shimming the needle makes a very noticeable improvement. Does it make any throttle position/RPM combination correct? Probably not but it does make the bike run lots better.
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Old 10-09-2011, 12:17 PM   #55337
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Originally Posted by macrae85 View Post
I've just flushed out my DR650 #1 & #4 to put DOT5 fluid in.One bike has braided lines the other rubber
the different between the two is night & day-with old and new fluid!
DOT 5.1 is OK. If you really used DOT 5 that could be an expensive mistake. DOT 5 fluid will attack rubber parts in most DOT 4 systems.
DOT 5.1 on the other hand is compatible with DOT 4 systems.
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Old 10-09-2011, 12:23 PM   #55338
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Quote:
Originally Posted by macrae85 View Post
I've just flushed out my DR650 #1 & #4 to put DOT5 fluid in.One bike has braided lines the other rubber
the different between the two is night & day-with old and new fluid!
Yea, I don't think there is any air in there, I may try a braided line, but I know I did a good job bleeding the brakes. Pads are fine everything is fine on it, I suppose replace the line or rebuild the master and see what happens.

As for DOT 5 my friend, that's a great way to ruin your brakes. Fluids are not designed to be combined, and DOT 5 is silicone I believe. It will attack all of the rubber components in your system, you may consider flushing it out with the recommended DOT 4. Just my recommendations.....

Edit: My bad for posting the same thing two guys before me did..... whoops
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Old 10-09-2011, 12:38 PM   #55339
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Quote:
Originally Posted by procycle View Post
We already know that pretty much nothing about the stock DR650 jetting setup is correct. The point is to be able to improve it with seat of the pants testing. Removing the snorkel and shimming the needle makes a very noticeable improvement. Does it make any throttle position/RPM combination correct? Probably not but it does make the bike run lots better.
I think it would be interesting to shim the needle by .020" and machine the spring seat to accommodate (i.e. so that the preload is not increased) to see if there is more or less improvement. It should be pretty clear via step testing on an eddy current brake, especially in conjunction with 5-gas analysis.

Regards,

Derek
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Old 10-09-2011, 01:30 PM   #55340
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Quote:
Originally Posted by procycle View Post
We already know that pretty much nothing about the stock DR650 jetting setup is correct. The point is to be able to improve it with seat of the pants testing. Removing the snorkel and shimming the needle makes a very noticeable improvement. Does it make any throttle position/RPM combination correct? Probably not but it does make the bike run lots better.
This is the essence of all this "theorizing". Results are what count ... and screwing around for $100 an hour on an Eddy Current dyno does not always bring perfect or instant results. Been there, done that. (Factory Pro)

"run lots better" to me is what counts here. Simple, free mods are best!

I love all the technical analysis ... and all the knowledge, very educational. ... but time and miles and riding in varied conditions are always best long term determiners of what is really best. Read more Kevin Cameron about this.

That's why it took me a YEAR and 10,000 miles of screwing around with DR650 jetting before I got it to somewhere close to where I wanted!
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Old 10-09-2011, 02:01 PM   #55341
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adv Grifter View Post
This is the essence of all this "theorizing". Results are what count ... and screwing around for $100 an hour on an Eddy Current dyno does not always bring perfect or instant results. Been there, done that. (Factory Pro)

"run lots better" to me is what counts here. Simple, free mods are best!
You touch on the very reason why a 5-gas equipped eddy current brake dyno is useful, that is to separate theory and perception from fact.
Quote:
I love all the technical analysis ... and all the knowledge, very educational. ... but time and miles and riding in varied conditions are always best long term determiners of what is really best. Read more Kevin Cameron about this.
Kevin Cameron also mentions people's perceptions being off at times. Given how poorly some motorcycles run whose owners think they are "just fine" or even "awesome", I tend to agree.
Quote:
That's why it took me a YEAR and 10,000 miles of screwing around with DR650 jetting before I got it to somewhere close to where I wanted!
Given a skilled tuner, a 5-gas eddy current equipped brake dyno can get you there faster and with more precision.

If you are saying that you don't need the speed and precision, especially at the cost of the labor that is involved, I can understand that. The cost/benefit analysis works out differently for different people.

Regards,

Derek

motolab screwed with this post 10-09-2011 at 02:16 PM
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Old 10-09-2011, 02:04 PM   #55342
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Finally decided on a seat. Went with a Sargent Low.. Hopefully it works out well. My "Custom" dr650 seat is 9" wide, which is only 1" bigger then stock from what I understand. The part that annoys me the most is that I spent $200 to make this seat.. Oo well, hopefully the Sargent makes me fell better
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Old 10-09-2011, 02:27 PM   #55343
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Quote:
Originally Posted by motolab View Post
Technically, BST40 carbs use a cold start enrichment circuit instead of a choke. A choke is closed when an engine is cold and opened when it is warm, whereas a fuel enrichment circuit is opened when the engine is cold and closed when it is warm. A choke works by restricting the air flow, whereas an enrichment circuit works by adding extra fuel. A choke requires a fast idle cam or something akin to it (or you have to hold the throttle open manually), whereas an enrichment circuit adds a little extra air simultaneously with the extra fuel, so the fast idle is already built in.

Regards,

Derek
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Old 10-09-2011, 02:47 PM   #55344
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Still waiting on a rear spacer for the rear supermoto wheel but decided to mount the front anyways
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Old 10-09-2011, 03:11 PM   #55345
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Quote:
Originally Posted by motolab View Post
drilling the slide also reduces damping, which will lead to increased slide guide, emulsion tube, needle and slide wear.
Not to mention increased fun.
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Old 10-09-2011, 03:36 PM   #55346
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Originally Posted by NordieBoy View Post
Not to mention increased fun.
...As long as you don't mind replacing the parts a bit more often.

See:
Slide guide, used
Slide guide, new
Slides, new and used
Emulsion tubes, new and used
Jet needles, new and used

Scroll down for description and links. Click image for high-res view.

Consider that there is an intake pulse every 720 degrees, which is what raises the slide. Between those pulses, the slide spring and gravity try to push the slide back down. In order for the slide to be allowed to be pushed back down, the vacuum above diaphragm has to bleed off through the slide lift holes. The larger the slide lift holes, the faster that vacuum can bleed off, and therefore the greater the distance the slide can be pushed down before the next pulse. At the next pulse, the slide has to be pulled back up by the distance it fell (more if there is acceleration, less if there is deceleration). Conversely, the smaller the lift holes, the slower the vacuum can bleed off, and therefore the smaller the distance the slide can be pushed down before the next pulse, and therefore the smaller the distance the slide has to be pulled back up at the next pulse.

My opinion is that the perceived benefits of slide drilling may be at least somewhat related to resultant changes in fuel metering rather than to the speed at which the slide is allowed to move, in which case one should instead concentrate on achieving the correct float height, pilot jet, needle profile and clip position. Then most if not all of the benefits could be achieved without additional wear on a carburetor that is already chronically wear prone.

Regards,

Derek
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Old 10-09-2011, 04:08 PM   #55347
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Thanks !

Can you still change the amount of travel as with the factory lowering?

Travel Guy

Quote:
Originally Posted by procycle View Post
Yes, the length is the same.
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Old 10-09-2011, 04:12 PM   #55348
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Whenever I read your stuff Derek, I get light headed, feel kinda sleepy, begin to doubt any and all mechanical abilities I thought I might have, but mostly I just appreciate just how well my traditional Jesse / DynaJet modded BST 40 DR650 is performing, once I dropped the DJ needle one step leaner (c-clip 3 down).

Do you ride a DR650 ?

996DL
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Old 10-09-2011, 04:16 PM   #55349
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Bar risers

I just wanted to recommend the Powermadd bar risers that Procycle sells. I got tired of trying to figure out what bend of handlebar I wanted. The shape of the stock bar is ok, I just needed it a little higher and further forward. The Powermadd risers accomplish this perfectly. Easy install in less than 5 minutes. Very well made and quick shipping from Procycle.

I also installed the Polly Heaters hand warmers. It was a major pain in the ass drilling the bars and setting up the wiring. I didn't even have to remove the grips though. It probably would've been much easier without handguards, but if I did it again, I'd just go with the Dualstar heaters.
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Old 10-09-2011, 04:23 PM   #55350
TRAVELGUY
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Very impressive. Thanks for posting!

TravelGuy

Quote:
Originally Posted by motolab View Post
...As long as you don't mind replacing the parts a bit more often.

See:
Slide guide, used
Slide guide, new
Slides, new and used
Emulsion tubes, new and used
Jet needles, new and used

Scroll down for description and links. Click image for high-res view.

Consider that there is an intake pulse every 720 degrees, which is what raises the slide. Between those pulses, the slide spring and gravity try to push the slide back down. In order for the slide to be allowed to be pushed back down, the vacuum above diaphragm has to bleed off through the slide lift holes. The larger the slide lift holes, the faster that vacuum can bleed off, and therefore the greater the distance the slide can be pushed down before the next pulse. At the next pulse, the slide has to be pulled back up by the distance it fell (more if there is acceleration, less if there is deceleration). Conversely, the smaller the lift holes, the slower the vacuum can bleed off, and therefore the smaller the distance the slide can be pushed down before the next pulse, and therefore the smaller the distance the slide has to be pulled back up at the next pulse.

My opinion is that the perceived benefits of slide drilling may be at least somewhat related to resultant changes in fuel metering rather than to the speed at which the slide is allowed to move, in which case one should instead concentrate on achieving the correct float height, pilot jet, needle profile and clip position. Then most if not all of the benefits could be achieved without additional wear on a carburetor that is already chronically wear prone.

Regards,

Derek
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