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Old 10-08-2011, 11:25 PM   #55336
PHILinFRANCE
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Location: S W France my little bit of paradise
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Yeh , tricky little swine to get out !!! took mine out and found it half full of shite !!!! Left it out and fitted an in line filter 3 and you can SEE IT.
Phil
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Old 10-08-2011, 11:54 PM   #55337
ADV8
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Originally Posted by motolab View Post
Correct!
Incorrect! As already explained, it is not the same thing.

Regards,

Derek
I read it.
I would not be concerned with 0.5 mm (0.020 inch) of preload on the spring which is the standard for the stock bike and carburetor shimming wise.
Cutting the spring shorter and the drilling of the slide as some do would have more effect than that. (imo)

I might even go as far as even if the BST40 slide height was altered a fraction in the venturi, the DR engine being of such a low output would not notice it.
Given shortening the spring has shown improvement then yes excessive shimming of the needle might be detrimental to things.
Only actual road tests would determine things.

The BST 40 is OK but CV is not for me so is long gone.

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Old 10-09-2011, 12:32 AM   #55338
tobbik
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Originally Posted by Rumlover View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by tobbik View Post
Just to say thanks, TravelGuy was spot on it was the kill switch. Now I just don't know what pisses me of more, that someone pushed i my killswitch while being parked down town, or that they actually got me with that stupid prank. Oh well, I guess I learnt my lesson ...

-t
Just be happy
Oh, I am. But I gotta admit, my ego is a little bruised...
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Old 10-09-2011, 12:40 AM   #55339
motolab
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Originally Posted by ADV8 View Post
I would not be concerned with 0.5 mm (0.020 inch) of preload on the spring which is the standard for the stock bike and carburetor shimming wise.
You could be right that it makes little difference whether the mixture is richened via the lowering of the slide vs. via the raising of the needle. The only exception I could see is if the slide was already too low at that particular intersection of throttle position and rpm.
Quote:
Cutting the spring shorter and the drilling of the slide as some do would have more effect than that. (imo)
Agreed.
Quote:
I might even go as far as even if the BST40 slide height was altered a fraction in the venturi, the DR engine being of such a low output would not notice it.
Again, it might be noticeable if the slide was either at a perfect height or already too low at a particular intersection of throttle position and rpm. I think especially so at small openings, as here a small change in slide height makes a big difference in terms of percentage of area.
Quote:
Given shortening the spring has shown improvement then yes excessive shimming of the needle might be detrimental to things.
Agreed, except that it's currently unknown to me whether the improvement comes from the change in slide height, the attendant change in needle height or the combination thereof. It's also unknown to me whether this improvement exists at all intersections of throttle opening and rpm.
Quote:
Only actual road tests would determine things.
I think testing on my five-gas EGA equipped eddy current brake dyno should give at least some indication. Hopefully I'll get a chance to investigate...

Regards,

Derek
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Old 10-09-2011, 12:42 AM   #55340
macrae85
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Originally Posted by Aerocycle View Post
Something I've noticed about the DR is it doesn't have the greatest brakes, but that's okay with me, I can accept it. However, have any of you guys experienced the rear brake being really soft/squishy/seems like excess travel to get it to brake like it should? But then later on the ride it's firmer, and doesn't need large amounts of travel to brake well? I don't always notice this, but occasionally i do. I'm not new to working on brakes, and when I first got the bike the fluid was old and dark, so I bled the system really well with fresh fluid. Do you think I need to rebuild my rear master cylinder?


Something of interest not related to the DR650 thread, except it has two wheels and runs on diesel.... Anyone looked into it before, looks like its for sale to the military only for now....

Website: http://www.hayes-dt.com/index.htm

Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CRzP_NMIYrU

Another Video (mail call) : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qtcd1kSdlQY

Pretty cool if you ask me, I would live to test ride one...
I've just flushed out my DR650 #1 & #4 to put DOT5 fluid in.One bike has braided lines the other rubber
the different between the two is night & day-with old and new fluid!
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Old 10-09-2011, 07:23 AM   #55341
Kommando
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trbig67 View Post
Every bike that I've replaced a rubber line with the braided steel, it's such a HUGE difference, that I'd have to re-learn the braking on the front with the bike to keep from skidding or just making the nose dive at every stop. You can order brake lines by the inch.. just measure the old rubber one. The decent plastic coated steel braided lines are @ $1 an inch. Two 10m banjos to screw onto the ends, and you'd have a stoppie machine.

BUT.. personally, I like just a bit of a forgiving brake offroad, so I haven't changed out the DR's line.
After re-learning the brake pressure needed though, braided stainless lines tend to give better feel, so modulating braking right at the limit is easier.
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Old 10-09-2011, 07:43 AM   #55342
Kommando
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Originally Posted by Trbig67 View Post
Some of you may have read the thread I posted on riding the DR up in the Colorado Mountains. Around here in Oklahoma, I'm lucky to get 40mpg. On the ride to OKC to load the bike in the trailer for the trip, I was at highway speeds at 70-80 and got mid 30's on the mpg. Up in the mountains, I get a lot better mileage, when it should have gotten worse?? On a 107 mile stretch where we were in a hurry to get from Silverton to Pagosa Springs, (107 miles) we were going wide open a lot of the time and even got it up between 95-100 on the speedo (I know of the questionable accuracy..) but was usually in the 75 mph range. I got 54 mpg on that ride back! WTF?? Should have been running richer and less mpg at that altitude?
Bone-stock carb, right? What about your intake/filter and exhaust?

I'm no expert on carburetion, but I'm guessing you'd have much better throttle response if you drilled the slide.

I'm also guessing that your jetting is pretty lean for lower altitudess. When you go up in elevation, the number of oxygen molecules, available from a given volume of air for combustion, is much less. This effectively richens up your fuel/air ratio. If you're running lean down low, you might be spot on, or close to it, when you get to higher elevation.

My Jeep YJ's MPI was set very lean from the factory. I removed the airbox restrictors, put on a free-flowing exhaust, and dropped in a K&N airfilter. The MPI can self-adjust a bit to compensate, but it has it's limits (usually the injectors). Around Chicago, it'd get 15-16MPG regularly, even when bone stock. In Summit Cnty., CO, it'd get 20MPG, with 31" tires, and didn't seem to lose any power. The fuel/air ratio was closer to the sweet spots for power and efficiency.

Richer carbs don't necessarily mean less MPG. If you're running way too lean, your efficiency will suffer.

MPG can also be heavily affected by headwinds or tailwinds.
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Old 10-09-2011, 08:01 AM   #55343
Kommando
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Originally Posted by JMR View Post
Thanks for the detailed recommends. I'm in the process of farkling out my new DR too. Personally, I'm not going to mess with the airbox/carb/exhaust - this thing has plenty of power as it is! (The powerband reminds me of my last bike: a '72 Tiger 650). I broke mine in the Motoman way and I'm consistently getting 55+ mpg) Although I did get a jet kit - I run at high altitudes (4-11K ft) and may benefit from a leaner main jet. But for now the engine will remain stock.
I should have included the high-altitude types. If I got any lower in elevation I'd need a snorkel and fins.

Your carbing may be spot on at your higher elevation.

You very well MAY benefit from a leaner main, but it sounds like you could be close to spot on with your current one.

Throttle response though, could probably be improved by drilling the slide (easy to put back to stock condition with just a dab of epoxy), and an extended idle-mix screw makes adjustments much easier as you change altitudes. You also might benefit from removing the snorkel and installing a free-flowing filter like Uni or Twinair.
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Old 10-09-2011, 08:01 AM   #55344
procycle
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Originally Posted by TRAVELGUY View Post
Have any ADV readers done this conversion and how are the results? Also after this conversion is the shock lenght the same as orginal. I wrote and also called Procycle about the lenght and doing the Suzuki factory lowering opertion with limiting the lenght of travel and the person I talked with could not give me a answer.

Thanks;

TravelGuy
Yes, the length is the same.
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www.procycle.us - Everything for your DR650 and lots of other great stuff!
DR900 Big Bore Stroker buildup
TurboDiesel Corvette - go to the end to start at the beginning
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Old 10-09-2011, 08:03 AM   #55345
procycle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TRAVELGUY View Post
Have any ADV readers done this conversion and how are the results? Also after this conversion is the shock lenght the same as orginal. I wrote and also called Procycle about the lenght and doing the Suzuki factory lowering opertion with limiting the lenght of travel and the person I talked with could not give me a answer.

Thanks;

TravelGuy
Yes, Race Tech designed the new internals to give the same length as stock.
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Clarke's second law of Egodynamics: "For every expert, there is an equal and opposite expert." - Jasper Fforde
www.procycle.us - Everything for your DR650 and lots of other great stuff!
DR900 Big Bore Stroker buildup
TurboDiesel Corvette - go to the end to start at the beginning
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Old 10-09-2011, 08:24 AM   #55346
Kommando
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Originally Posted by Zapp22 View Post
some here had followed mxrob's FI project.
here's one of the dyno run posts:
http://www.thumpertalk.com/forum/sho...&postcount=518

i believe his cylinder was bone stock

That dyno chart was for a stock engine with an FCR and an EFI setup? Holycrap! That's about an 11WHP (30% over stock) increase without opening the motor. The throttle response is excellent, and the smoothness at low revs is awesome.

I can't wait to see what EFI numbers/chart people end up with running the 780cc big-bore, the big-valve head, and the Web cam.
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Old 10-09-2011, 08:24 AM   #55347
maynard911
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Originally Posted by SprintST View Post
Installed a ProCycle mixture richness adjuster screw and everything was fine for a week. Today I set off on a 700 mile ride this morning and almost immediately it starts stumbling and gets choppy and surgy feeling at 60 mph and over. Feels almost like a fuel supply issue.

I've got an IMS tank with their petcock and that seems to be working fine. Is there a fuel filter somewhere that I'm not aware of? I couldn't see one. It's a new bike with 2400 miles that's only seen pavement so I'm ruling out the air filter. Everything else motor-wise is stock.

Have two more 12 hour days ahead of me and aside from the shitty fuel consumption it's irritating as hell riding the thing.

What could I have done and what should I be looking for?
Sounds like the choke is stuck on to me.
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Old 10-09-2011, 08:50 AM   #55348
procycle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by motolab View Post
As shimming the needle clip preloads the slide spring beyond standard, it results in lowering the slide rather than raising the needle. I would not shim the needle clip unless the goal is actually to lower the slide for a given intersection of throttle angle and rpm. Derek
I'm still trying to wrap my brain around this. I get what you're saying but there must be more factors at work here. First, I have a hard time imagining that the slide springs are made so accurately that .020" of preload would have all that much effect.

If we shim the top of the spring .020" would we make a noticeable difference?
If we could add 40mm of preload by stretching the spring would the slide never open at all?
Quote:
Originally Posted by motolab View Post
lowering the slide rather than raising the needle
Or, to say this another way
For a given opening of the slide the needle position is higher.

Here's my thought experiment:

Let's say the DR is running down the highway at 60 mph. We twist the throttle butterfly about 1/3 open to maintain that speed. Let's say that speed/rpm/load combination requires the slide to raise .400" to get enough air into the motor to make the required amount of power to maintain a steady 60 mph. With the additional spring preload from shimming the needle we'll have to open the throttle a tiny bit more to raise the slide the same .400" but the needle will be riding .020" higher in the needle jet. Or, if we hold the throttle at the same place as before the slide will only raise 380", the needle will be in the same position relative to the needle jet and the bike would run along at maybe 57 mph.
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Clarke's second law of Egodynamics: "For every expert, there is an equal and opposite expert." - Jasper Fforde
www.procycle.us - Everything for your DR650 and lots of other great stuff!
DR900 Big Bore Stroker buildup
TurboDiesel Corvette - go to the end to start at the beginning
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Old 10-09-2011, 10:37 AM   #55349
motolab
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Originally Posted by Kommando View Post
Throttle response though, could probably be improved by drilling the slide
That may be the case, but drilling the slide also reduces damping, which will lead to increased slide guide, emulsion tube, needle and slide wear.

Regards,

Derek
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Old 10-09-2011, 10:41 AM   #55350
motolab
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Originally Posted by maynard911 View Post
Sounds like the choke is stuck on to me.
Technically, BST40 carbs use a cold start enrichment circuit instead of a choke. A choke is closed when an engine is cold and opened when it is warm, whereas a fuel enrichment circuit is opened when the engine is cold and closed when it is warm. A choke works by restricting the air flow, whereas an enrichment circuit works by adding extra fuel. A choke requires a fast idle cam or something akin to it (or you have to hold the throttle open manually), whereas an enrichment circuit adds a little extra air simultaneously with the extra fuel, so the fast idle is already built in.

Regards,

Derek
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