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Old 11-07-2011, 12:28 PM   #56491
sagebrushocean
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^^^^
This.
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Old 11-07-2011, 01:08 PM   #56492
eakins
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Quote:
Originally Posted by motolab View Post
It's not that easy to make sure that a pilot jet is completely clean, as, due to the small orifice size, small amounts of deposits make a big difference in cross-sectional area. I would also recommend against poking something through the jet that is made of a harder material than brass, as whatever is poked through could scratch or abrade the bore. Again, with a bore with a cross-sectional area as small as a pilot jet has, a small change can make a big difference in terms of percentage. I don’t know about you, but my time is valuable to me, and jets are cheap, so I am of the mind that it is better to replace them than to spend a bunch of time cleaning, only to possibly find out that the engine still doesn’t run right and then having to wonder if the carb I just disassembled, cleaned, reassembled, and attempted to adjust the idle mixture & speed on now still has a clogged or perhaps damaged pilot jet installed. Seems like a false economy to me.


Of course, if the bike absolutely has to be ridden today, clean away!

Regards,

Derek
truth in that as it's sub $10 for a pilot, but the bigger problem is finding/waiting on parts these days. if i knew the dealer would have the pilot jet in stock, then sure i'd go get a new one and be done with it, but we all know that is not the case. i guess i like to have my carb apart and know how it works and what i can do on the road if it does not. i bring a very thin needle with me in my tool kit just in case. i find a thin needle is smooth and safe to clean jets if need be.
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Old 11-07-2011, 02:38 PM   #56493
BergDonk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob.G View Post
Hey, what are some of the other speedo/instrument cluster options out there besides the TrailTech Vapor? I've gone through three speed sensors on my Vapor in a year, and the sensorts themselves only have a 90-day warranty (gee I wonder why). I'm about ready to ditch the thing and go with another solution. I know others have been posted here, but who knows where in 56,000 posts.

Thanks. :)

Rob

PS: Shameless plug: I have a Superbrace fork brace for the DR650 in the Flea Market right now.

I assume by 'speed sensor' that you mean the pick up at the wheel? A magnet on the wheel and a reed switch on the fork leg somewhere. If so, in my experience, they all work the same. I have bicycle ones on some of my fleet and still going strong after many years. Get the cheapest one you can, should be able to get a whole speedo and pickup for <> $15. You can then keep the Vapor head and just adapt the new pickup, or swap the lot.

FWIW, the Vapor and pickup on my wife's KLX has been fine for the last 3 years, although admittedly not too many kms.

Steve
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Old 11-07-2011, 02:43 PM   #56494
kobukan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by motolab View Post
It's not that easy to make sure that a pilot jet is completely clean, as, due to the small orifice size, small amounts of deposits make a big difference in cross-sectional area. I would also recommend against poking something through the jet that is made of a harder material than brass, as whatever is poked through could scratch or abrade the bore. Again, with a bore with a cross-sectional area as small as a pilot jet has, a small change can make a big difference in terms of percentage. I don’t know about you, but my time is valuable to me, and jets are cheap, so I am of the mind that it is better to replace them than to spend a bunch of time cleaning, only to possibly find out that the engine still doesn’t run right and then having to wonder if the carb I just disassembled, cleaned, reassembled, and attempted to adjust the idle mixture & speed on now still has a clogged or perhaps damaged pilot jet installed. Seems like a false economy to me.


Of course, if the bike absolutely has to be ridden today, clean away!

Regards,

Derek

+1
Jets are so cheap and easy to get I often wonder why anybody ever bothers trying to clean them. Just put a new one in.
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Old 11-07-2011, 02:52 PM   #56495
sagedrifter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eakins View Post
2nd guy to blanketly say that?

what ever happened to maintain/clean what you have in front of you? what about needing those skills for field repairs/on tour? also for most all, their local dealer will not have that part in stock so they wait another week vrs removing the pilot jet (you still remove it if you replace it) and clean it with carb cleaner and a small wire/needle if need be. he can get his bike running today.
Like everybody else has learned probably the hard way, cleaning the pilot jet is an exercise in futility. You never get them 100% clean or you damage them by putting wires in there and enlarge the suckers.

Buy a 10 pack and have them on hand. Most bikes that run like crap have dirty pilot jets that the owner "cleaned". It takes much less time to replace a pilot jet with a new one since 99% of the time you put the carb back on and find out your "cleaned" pilot jet is not clean enough. Regardless of the cleaning, you can't stick the average needle in there, its a very small hole and its easy to scratch or nick the brass.

It takes about a week to get a 10 pack of pilot jets from most places. I bet motolab would send you one out quickly via USPS if you asked. Maybe 2 or three days shipping time in the US. The last one he sent me took two days and I'm clear out on the other side of the USA... Motolab stocks the o-rings, the bowl gasket and other good items for the BST carb.

sagedrifter screwed with this post 11-07-2011 at 03:05 PM Reason: I can't spell
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Old 11-07-2011, 03:13 PM   #56496
Rusty Rocket
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sagedrifter View Post

It takes about a week to get a 10 pack of pilot jets from most places.
I must be lucky, my dealer has the jets in stock. They have a
small parts bin.


with almost any size mikuni and kehin jet. Any dealer that sells Japanese motorcycles that use Mikuni carbs,may have the same. Call around and be sure to take your old jet with you.
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Old 11-07-2011, 03:27 PM   #56497
Mongle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FloridaSteve View Post
Need some quick advice from the collective. Had some compression issues (90 psi) and a paper base gasket leak so off camethe top end yesterday. Checked the end gap and saw this. My question is, is it typical/acceptable to just re-ring and keep the existing piston or do folks generally just go all new? I may go Ho comp piston etc.. but I AM on a tight budget so it may ahve to wait. The original piston measures our fine and the bore is still nicely cross-hatched. Pulled the valves and they're all straight and tight. They'll get a cleanup fresh seals and a re-lap.

Any general adice on all this much appreciated.

It was closer to .024 (,020 is the service limit)





I wouldn't be opposed to running the same piston- IF the piston to bore clearance is within specs and the piston doesn't have any major scratches in it from debris.

Also, piston ring end gap on a DR is measured at the bottom of the bore to get it out of the wear area. Make sure the ring is square in the bore or you will get a larger reading. .024 isn't terrible and that isn't causing your low compression.

I would re-check your valves for sealing (tight isn't a word engine builders use). Assemble the head and put brake cleaner in the ports and look for any coming past the valves. If you see any- the valve is leaking. A valve lap might do the trick, but most often it will need a valve job if leaking.

Me personally- If I have it that far apart I would have the bore honed to promote better ring break-in and put a new piston/rings in it.

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Old 11-07-2011, 03:45 PM   #56498
Stringer99
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Question

I have a slow leak in my cylinder head gasket . Since I have a 2003 model, how can I tell if I have a paper base gasket (which i assume is the cylinder base)? I wasnt sure if i should replace both? or does combining the cylinder base gasket make the job alot harder? and if i order gaskets from say bikebandit, how do i know if im getting a paper gasket or the corrected (metal?) one? do i need anything else besides gaskets for install? thanks.
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Old 11-07-2011, 03:49 PM   #56499
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Question

i have a newer DG silencer that needs packing already (that was fast). would it be acceptable to just remove the silencer end cap, stuff in some packing pretty tightly, and put the cap back on? Or do I have to take out all the guts, wrap it like a burrito, and try to fit it all back together? this is my first time doing this. thanks!
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Old 11-07-2011, 04:02 PM   #56500
cemory
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Quote:
Originally Posted by motolab View Post
Hello Chris,

As I'm sure you are aware, needle clip position is responsible for operation at 1/4 throttle opening. Pilot jet size is responsible for 1/16 to 1/8 throttle openings.

I would consider 1/16 to 1/8 throttle opening to be off idle, whereas I would consider 1/4 throttle opening to be too far away from idle to be considered off idle.

I guess there are a few possibilities:

Perhaps you consider 1/4 throttle opening to be off idle.

Perhaps the problem spanned all the way from 1/16 to 1/4 opening, and the overlap between circuits was enough to cure 1/16 to 1/8 while having the greatest effect on 1/4 opening.

Perhaps the problem was in the 1/16 to 1/8 area and lowering the needle helped because the overlap between circuits had enough of an effect.

If the last possibility fits most accurately, then perhaps it might be better to consider a smaller pilot jet instead of lowering the needle.

All of that said, it's quite rare for a late model bike to come with a pilot jet that is too rich. I would therefore check the float height as well as inspect the slide guide and emulsion tube for wear.

How many miles are on the carb?

Regards,

Derek
Interesting information. As I remember back to when I dropped the needle 1 clip position I believe I also closed the screw on the bottom of the carb back to the recommended 1 and a half turns out ( per Jesses instructions) I had been screwing it out more trying to get rid of the off idle bog. I am not sure what the fix was after reading your informative message, but I do know that dropping the needle and adjusting my carb screw back to 1 and a half turns out seems to have cured my issue. Before I dropped the needle you could blip the throttle at idle and sometimes it would kill the motor. It would definatly hesitate momemtarilly before the motor revved in responce to the sudden throttle opening. Just over 4000 miles on the carb.

Chris
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Old 11-07-2011, 04:12 PM   #56501
cemory
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eakins View Post
this has been discussed before.

first it's the nature of a CV carb and it will never been totally responsive like a pumper carb. don't whack it.

second the pilot circuit is often too rich. everyone will say turn out the pilot screw 2 turns but if you turn it out only 1 (which is counter intuitive, and you think then wtf did i buy this pilot screw) the bog goes away.

someone else figured this out and it worked for me.
I agree that the CV carb sometimes has a lag in the response when I whack open the throttle and I was used to that before I modded the exhaust and airbox. I guess I should have mentioned that I could now kill the engine by whacking open the throttle off idle. Never did that before the mods. All I know is that after lowering the needle 1 clip position and putting pilot jet back at 1 and a half turns out, it runs like a "RAPED APE".
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Old 11-07-2011, 04:13 PM   #56502
NordieBoy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mongle View Post
Me personally- If I have it that far apart I would have the bore honed to promote better ring break-in and put a new piston/rings in it.
Hone a nikasil bore?
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Old 11-07-2011, 04:21 PM   #56503
Mongle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NordieBoy View Post
Hone a nikasil bore?
Yes They make special stones just for nikasil. Sunnen is the biggest producer of them. They use commercial diamond in them to cut the nikasil. I would want to just see a new cross hatch in there for the new rings to seat properly. Not take any serious material and make the bore bigger.

Suzuki calls it SCEM-Suzuki chemical-electrical plating material or something like that...just nikasil though.

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Old 11-07-2011, 06:02 PM   #56504
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FloridaSteve View Post
...do folks always replace the rings AND pistons as a general rule or just the rings as necessary? I spend my time mostly on 2 strokes where you generally always replace the piston and rings together.
just re-ring it and enjoy riding it. i've been known to re-ring a 2T piston from time to time and the world didnt' stop rotating.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sagedrifter View Post
...cleaning the pilot jet is an exercise in futility.......
it's a maintenance procedure that every bike owner should know. what do you do with that nice shiny new pilot jet when you plug one out in the middle of no-where? call AAA?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kobukan View Post
....I often wonder why anybody ever bothers trying to clean them.....
because they're not disposable? wow, you must buy alot of stuff, TVs, cars, etc. the DEFINITION of the consumer.
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Old 11-07-2011, 06:54 PM   #56505
Rob.G
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Where's a good place to pick up other speed sensors then? $30 ea for the ones from Trailtech are a bit much.

BTW, what are the battery options again? I replaced mine with one of those EXT9's last year and the thing is already bad. It's been just over a year too, so out of warranty. I'm not buying another one.

Rob
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