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Old 11-07-2011, 03:27 PM   #56491
Mongle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FloridaSteve View Post
Need some quick advice from the collective. Had some compression issues (90 psi) and a paper base gasket leak so off camethe top end yesterday. Checked the end gap and saw this. My question is, is it typical/acceptable to just re-ring and keep the existing piston or do folks generally just go all new? I may go Ho comp piston etc.. but I AM on a tight budget so it may ahve to wait. The original piston measures our fine and the bore is still nicely cross-hatched. Pulled the valves and they're all straight and tight. They'll get a cleanup fresh seals and a re-lap.

Any general adice on all this much appreciated.

It was closer to .024 (,020 is the service limit)





I wouldn't be opposed to running the same piston- IF the piston to bore clearance is within specs and the piston doesn't have any major scratches in it from debris.

Also, piston ring end gap on a DR is measured at the bottom of the bore to get it out of the wear area. Make sure the ring is square in the bore or you will get a larger reading. .024 isn't terrible and that isn't causing your low compression.

I would re-check your valves for sealing (tight isn't a word engine builders use). Assemble the head and put brake cleaner in the ports and look for any coming past the valves. If you see any- the valve is leaking. A valve lap might do the trick, but most often it will need a valve job if leaking.

Me personally- If I have it that far apart I would have the bore honed to promote better ring break-in and put a new piston/rings in it.

Mongle screwed with this post 11-07-2011 at 03:58 PM
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Old 11-07-2011, 03:45 PM   #56492
Stringer99
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Question

I have a slow leak in my cylinder head gasket . Since I have a 2003 model, how can I tell if I have a paper base gasket (which i assume is the cylinder base)? I wasnt sure if i should replace both? or does combining the cylinder base gasket make the job alot harder? and if i order gaskets from say bikebandit, how do i know if im getting a paper gasket or the corrected (metal?) one? do i need anything else besides gaskets for install? thanks.
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Old 11-07-2011, 03:49 PM   #56493
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Question

i have a newer DG silencer that needs packing already (that was fast). would it be acceptable to just remove the silencer end cap, stuff in some packing pretty tightly, and put the cap back on? Or do I have to take out all the guts, wrap it like a burrito, and try to fit it all back together? this is my first time doing this. thanks!
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Old 11-07-2011, 04:02 PM   #56494
cemory
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Quote:
Originally Posted by motolab View Post
Hello Chris,

As I'm sure you are aware, needle clip position is responsible for operation at 1/4 throttle opening. Pilot jet size is responsible for 1/16 to 1/8 throttle openings.

I would consider 1/16 to 1/8 throttle opening to be off idle, whereas I would consider 1/4 throttle opening to be too far away from idle to be considered off idle.

I guess there are a few possibilities:

Perhaps you consider 1/4 throttle opening to be off idle.

Perhaps the problem spanned all the way from 1/16 to 1/4 opening, and the overlap between circuits was enough to cure 1/16 to 1/8 while having the greatest effect on 1/4 opening.

Perhaps the problem was in the 1/16 to 1/8 area and lowering the needle helped because the overlap between circuits had enough of an effect.

If the last possibility fits most accurately, then perhaps it might be better to consider a smaller pilot jet instead of lowering the needle.

All of that said, it's quite rare for a late model bike to come with a pilot jet that is too rich. I would therefore check the float height as well as inspect the slide guide and emulsion tube for wear.

How many miles are on the carb?

Regards,

Derek
Interesting information. As I remember back to when I dropped the needle 1 clip position I believe I also closed the screw on the bottom of the carb back to the recommended 1 and a half turns out ( per Jesses instructions) I had been screwing it out more trying to get rid of the off idle bog. I am not sure what the fix was after reading your informative message, but I do know that dropping the needle and adjusting my carb screw back to 1 and a half turns out seems to have cured my issue. Before I dropped the needle you could blip the throttle at idle and sometimes it would kill the motor. It would definatly hesitate momemtarilly before the motor revved in responce to the sudden throttle opening. Just over 4000 miles on the carb.

Chris
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Old 11-07-2011, 04:12 PM   #56495
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eakins View Post
this has been discussed before.

first it's the nature of a CV carb and it will never been totally responsive like a pumper carb. don't whack it.

second the pilot circuit is often too rich. everyone will say turn out the pilot screw 2 turns but if you turn it out only 1 (which is counter intuitive, and you think then wtf did i buy this pilot screw) the bog goes away.

someone else figured this out and it worked for me.
I agree that the CV carb sometimes has a lag in the response when I whack open the throttle and I was used to that before I modded the exhaust and airbox. I guess I should have mentioned that I could now kill the engine by whacking open the throttle off idle. Never did that before the mods. All I know is that after lowering the needle 1 clip position and putting pilot jet back at 1 and a half turns out, it runs like a "RAPED APE".
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Old 11-07-2011, 04:13 PM   #56496
NordieBoy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mongle View Post
Me personally- If I have it that far apart I would have the bore honed to promote better ring break-in and put a new piston/rings in it.
Hone a nikasil bore?
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Old 11-07-2011, 04:21 PM   #56497
Mongle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NordieBoy View Post
Hone a nikasil bore?
Yes They make special stones just for nikasil. Sunnen is the biggest producer of them. They use commercial diamond in them to cut the nikasil. I would want to just see a new cross hatch in there for the new rings to seat properly. Not take any serious material and make the bore bigger.

Suzuki calls it SCEM-Suzuki chemical-electrical plating material or something like that...just nikasil though.

Mongle screwed with this post 11-07-2011 at 04:32 PM
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Old 11-07-2011, 06:02 PM   #56498
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FloridaSteve View Post
...do folks always replace the rings AND pistons as a general rule or just the rings as necessary? I spend my time mostly on 2 strokes where you generally always replace the piston and rings together.
just re-ring it and enjoy riding it. i've been known to re-ring a 2T piston from time to time and the world didnt' stop rotating.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sagedrifter View Post
...cleaning the pilot jet is an exercise in futility.......
it's a maintenance procedure that every bike owner should know. what do you do with that nice shiny new pilot jet when you plug one out in the middle of no-where? call AAA?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kobukan View Post
....I often wonder why anybody ever bothers trying to clean them.....
because they're not disposable? wow, you must buy alot of stuff, TVs, cars, etc. the DEFINITION of the consumer.
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Old 11-07-2011, 06:54 PM   #56499
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Where's a good place to pick up other speed sensors then? $30 ea for the ones from Trailtech are a bit much.

BTW, what are the battery options again? I replaced mine with one of those EXT9's last year and the thing is already bad. It's been just over a year too, so out of warranty. I'm not buying another one.

Rob
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Old 11-07-2011, 06:57 PM   #56500
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Now everybody clean your pilot jets and don't listen to anything I say. I don't know crap. Pilot jets are easy to clean and if you can't do it then your a....

Every time I say replace a pilot jet and save time someone comes along telling some guy to clean it. I wish people had to pay the poor fellow or replace the lost time from the bad advice.

Most of the new posts on the DR650 will be from beginners, advice given to them should help them get back to riding as soon as possible and as easily as possible. Giving advice to "clean" some tiny pilot jet and putting the carb back on to find out your bike still runs like crap will not help a new rider. I've replaced lots of "cleaned" pilot jets.

The best advice in reality is, ride often. If you can't ride often, drain the carb or run the bike dry.

Put a good in-line filter on. If you leave fuel in the carb, the ethanol blends turn bad quicker than in times past. After a month E-10 turns dark amber and breaks down rubber fuel hoses pretty quick. I burn my carb dry between rides, I run manual fuel petcocks so I can drain my fuel hoses too. I also replace my fuel lines yearly along with the filter. I've not replaced a pilot jet in years since I started doing that.

The DR650 is a great bike and should be ridden with a good running carb. If you find yourself getting frustrated, take it to a dealer and get it fixed right. Bikes are for riding, they don't make good paper weights.
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Old 11-07-2011, 07:14 PM   #56501
kobukan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vintagespeed View Post
because they're not disposable? wow, you must buy alot of stuff, TVs, cars, etc. the DEFINITION of the consumer.
Actually, I'm about as frugal as anyone you ever met. I still have the bicycle I got for my 15th birthday back in '73, all original and still in service. We're talking about a pilot jet here . . . not throwing the carb away. And if you really must know . . . I have one tv and don't own a car. Not exactly the "DEFINITION of the consumer."


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Old 11-07-2011, 07:14 PM   #56502
sagedrifter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob.G View Post
Where's a good place to pick up other speed sensors then? $30 ea for the ones from Trailtech are a bit much.

BTW, what are the battery options again? I replaced mine with one of those EXT9's last year and the thing is already bad. It's been just over a year too, so out of warranty. I'm not buying another one.

Rob
Don't say that! Mine has been running fine for a whole three months.

If the Deka tanks on me I'm just going back to Yusa.
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Old 11-07-2011, 07:28 PM   #56503
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When I did my base gasket, the bike was still pretty low mileage (about 10,000 Kms / 6,000 miles, I think). I cleaned everything up nicely, measured the cylinder and piston. Everything was still well within spec, so I just ordered new rings. I had been considering the hi-comp piston kits but it was hard to justify the unnecessary cost (plus, the subquent need for high octane gas). I posted some photos and notes here:

http://www.fy-yff.com/2010/01/winter...e-project.html

http://www.fy-yff.com/2010/02/winter-maintenance-project-and-upgrades.html

http://www.fy-yff.com/2010/02/time-f...-assembly.html






Quote:
Originally Posted by FloridaSteve View Post
Need some quick advice from the collective. Had some compression issues (90 psi) and a paper base gasket leak so off camethe top end yesterday. Checked the end gap and saw this. My question is, is it typical/acceptable to just re-ring and keep the existing piston or do folks generally just go all new? I may go Ho comp piston etc.. but I AM on a tight budget so it may ahve to wait. The original piston measures our fine and the bore is still nicely cross-hatched. Pulled the valves and they're all straight and tight. They'll get a cleanup fresh seals and a re-lap.

Any general adice on all this much appreciated.

It was closer to .024 (,020 is the service limit)




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Old 11-07-2011, 07:39 PM   #56504
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mongle View Post
Yes They make special stones just for nikasil. Sunnen is the biggest producer of them. They use commercial diamond in them to cut the nikasil. I would want to just see a new cross hatch in there for the new rings to seat properly. Not take any serious material and make the bore bigger.

Suzuki calls it SCEM-Suzuki chemical-electrical plating material or something like that...just nikasil though.
And you can get by with a standard hone. It just takes more time and effort because a regular hone made for iron bores will just barely take any material off of a nikasil bore - which is OK. You don't want to take material off, just deglaze the surface so the rings will seat better.
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Old 11-07-2011, 09:28 PM   #56505
JagLite
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Thumb Muffler repacking

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stringer99 View Post
i have a newer DG silencer that needs packing already (that was fast). would it be acceptable to just remove the silencer end cap, stuff in some packing pretty tightly, and put the cap back on? Or do I have to take out all the guts, wrap it like a burrito, and try to fit it all back together? this is my first time doing this. thanks!
No worries, you can stuff it in if you want to, but I always found it very easy to pull the core out and wrap new packing around it.
I never tried "stuffing" and think it will likely be more difficult to do it that way.

I always removed what was left of the old packing anyway.

As I have posted before, I use and recommend house fiberglass insulation.
Unless you don't mind paying the price for the "official" repacking material.
It is easy to get enough scrap for free at any home construction site just for asking.
One batt will last for a long time since you cut it into pieces that fit your can.
Cut them to length (I make mine a half inch longer) and then wrap around the core to find the appropriate width.
You can experiment with the sound by how many wraps around the core you make.
I make mine thick enough that I need to squeeze it to get it in.

Use "unbacked" insulation or peel the paper or foil backing off before using it.
I don't know if the paper or foil backing will catch fire but unless you want to find out....
I wear nitrile or laytex gloves because I hate fiberglass.
You can also use steel wool but it is not as quiet and does sound different.
Stainless steel wool will last a long time.

BTW insulation comes in various colors and thicknesses (R Value).
All work but pink is the fastest

If you find the noise level too loud, you can have fun and experiment with making a two chamber insert for the can similar to the excellent GSXR mufflers.
It isn't rocket science and it is part of the fun of messing around with our bikes.
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