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Old 11-07-2011, 03:13 PM   #56536
NordieBoy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mongle View Post
Me personally- If I have it that far apart I would have the bore honed to promote better ring break-in and put a new piston/rings in it.
Hone a nikasil bore?
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Old 11-07-2011, 03:21 PM   #56537
Mongle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NordieBoy View Post
Hone a nikasil bore?
Yes They make special stones just for nikasil. Sunnen is the biggest producer of them. They use commercial diamond in them to cut the nikasil. I would want to just see a new cross hatch in there for the new rings to seat properly. Not take any serious material and make the bore bigger.

Suzuki calls it SCEM-Suzuki chemical-electrical plating material or something like that...just nikasil though.

Mongle screwed with this post 11-07-2011 at 03:32 PM
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Old 11-07-2011, 05:02 PM   #56538
vintagespeed
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FloridaSteve View Post
...do folks always replace the rings AND pistons as a general rule or just the rings as necessary? I spend my time mostly on 2 strokes where you generally always replace the piston and rings together.
just re-ring it and enjoy riding it. i've been known to re-ring a 2T piston from time to time and the world didnt' stop rotating.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sagedrifter View Post
...cleaning the pilot jet is an exercise in futility.......
it's a maintenance procedure that every bike owner should know. what do you do with that nice shiny new pilot jet when you plug one out in the middle of no-where? call AAA?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kobukan View Post
....I often wonder why anybody ever bothers trying to clean them.....
because they're not disposable? wow, you must buy alot of stuff, TVs, cars, etc. the DEFINITION of the consumer.
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Old 11-07-2011, 05:54 PM   #56539
Rob.G
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Where's a good place to pick up other speed sensors then? $30 ea for the ones from Trailtech are a bit much.

BTW, what are the battery options again? I replaced mine with one of those EXT9's last year and the thing is already bad. It's been just over a year too, so out of warranty. I'm not buying another one.

Rob
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Old 11-07-2011, 05:57 PM   #56540
sagedrifter
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Now everybody clean your pilot jets and don't listen to anything I say. I don't know crap. Pilot jets are easy to clean and if you can't do it then your a....

Every time I say replace a pilot jet and save time someone comes along telling some guy to clean it. I wish people had to pay the poor fellow or replace the lost time from the bad advice.

Most of the new posts on the DR650 will be from beginners, advice given to them should help them get back to riding as soon as possible and as easily as possible. Giving advice to "clean" some tiny pilot jet and putting the carb back on to find out your bike still runs like crap will not help a new rider. I've replaced lots of "cleaned" pilot jets.

The best advice in reality is, ride often. If you can't ride often, drain the carb or run the bike dry.

Put a good in-line filter on. If you leave fuel in the carb, the ethanol blends turn bad quicker than in times past. After a month E-10 turns dark amber and breaks down rubber fuel hoses pretty quick. I burn my carb dry between rides, I run manual fuel petcocks so I can drain my fuel hoses too. I also replace my fuel lines yearly along with the filter. I've not replaced a pilot jet in years since I started doing that.

The DR650 is a great bike and should be ridden with a good running carb. If you find yourself getting frustrated, take it to a dealer and get it fixed right. Bikes are for riding, they don't make good paper weights.
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Old 11-07-2011, 06:14 PM   #56541
kobukan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vintagespeed View Post
because they're not disposable? wow, you must buy alot of stuff, TVs, cars, etc. the DEFINITION of the consumer.
Actually, I'm about as frugal as anyone you ever met. I still have the bicycle I got for my 15th birthday back in '73, all original and still in service. We're talking about a pilot jet here . . . not throwing the carb away. And if you really must know . . . I have one tv and don't own a car. Not exactly the "DEFINITION of the consumer."


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Old 11-07-2011, 06:14 PM   #56542
sagedrifter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob.G View Post
Where's a good place to pick up other speed sensors then? $30 ea for the ones from Trailtech are a bit much.

BTW, what are the battery options again? I replaced mine with one of those EXT9's last year and the thing is already bad. It's been just over a year too, so out of warranty. I'm not buying another one.

Rob
Don't say that! Mine has been running fine for a whole three months.

If the Deka tanks on me I'm just going back to Yusa.
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Old 11-07-2011, 06:28 PM   #56543
thumpididump
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When I did my base gasket, the bike was still pretty low mileage (about 10,000 Kms / 6,000 miles, I think). I cleaned everything up nicely, measured the cylinder and piston. Everything was still well within spec, so I just ordered new rings. I had been considering the hi-comp piston kits but it was hard to justify the unnecessary cost (plus, the subquent need for high octane gas). I posted some photos and notes here:

http://www.fy-yff.com/2010/01/winter...e-project.html

http://www.fy-yff.com/2010/02/winter-maintenance-project-and-upgrades.html

http://www.fy-yff.com/2010/02/time-f...-assembly.html






Quote:
Originally Posted by FloridaSteve View Post
Need some quick advice from the collective. Had some compression issues (90 psi) and a paper base gasket leak so off camethe top end yesterday. Checked the end gap and saw this. My question is, is it typical/acceptable to just re-ring and keep the existing piston or do folks generally just go all new? I may go Ho comp piston etc.. but I AM on a tight budget so it may ahve to wait. The original piston measures our fine and the bore is still nicely cross-hatched. Pulled the valves and they're all straight and tight. They'll get a cleanup fresh seals and a re-lap.

Any general adice on all this much appreciated.

It was closer to .024 (,020 is the service limit)




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Old 11-07-2011, 06:39 PM   #56544
procycle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mongle View Post
Yes They make special stones just for nikasil. Sunnen is the biggest producer of them. They use commercial diamond in them to cut the nikasil. I would want to just see a new cross hatch in there for the new rings to seat properly. Not take any serious material and make the bore bigger.

Suzuki calls it SCEM-Suzuki chemical-electrical plating material or something like that...just nikasil though.
And you can get by with a standard hone. It just takes more time and effort because a regular hone made for iron bores will just barely take any material off of a nikasil bore - which is OK. You don't want to take material off, just deglaze the surface so the rings will seat better.
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Old 11-07-2011, 08:28 PM   #56545
JagLite
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Thumb Muffler repacking

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stringer99 View Post
i have a newer DG silencer that needs packing already (that was fast). would it be acceptable to just remove the silencer end cap, stuff in some packing pretty tightly, and put the cap back on? Or do I have to take out all the guts, wrap it like a burrito, and try to fit it all back together? this is my first time doing this. thanks!
No worries, you can stuff it in if you want to, but I always found it very easy to pull the core out and wrap new packing around it.
I never tried "stuffing" and think it will likely be more difficult to do it that way.

I always removed what was left of the old packing anyway.

As I have posted before, I use and recommend house fiberglass insulation.
Unless you don't mind paying the price for the "official" repacking material.
It is easy to get enough scrap for free at any home construction site just for asking.
One batt will last for a long time since you cut it into pieces that fit your can.
Cut them to length (I make mine a half inch longer) and then wrap around the core to find the appropriate width.
You can experiment with the sound by how many wraps around the core you make.
I make mine thick enough that I need to squeeze it to get it in.

Use "unbacked" insulation or peel the paper or foil backing off before using it.
I don't know if the paper or foil backing will catch fire but unless you want to find out....
I wear nitrile or laytex gloves because I hate fiberglass.
You can also use steel wool but it is not as quiet and does sound different.
Stainless steel wool will last a long time.

BTW insulation comes in various colors and thicknesses (R Value).
All work but pink is the fastest

If you find the noise level too loud, you can have fun and experiment with making a two chamber insert for the can similar to the excellent GSXR mufflers.
It isn't rocket science and it is part of the fun of messing around with our bikes.
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Old 11-07-2011, 08:55 PM   #56546
Aerocycle
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Pilot Jet?

Sagedrifter, i couldn't agree more with you. Those jets are cheap, and cleaning them usually results in more damage to the orifice.

So here's just recently what I've experienced running my bike. I did a jet kit/airbox mod ect earlier this summer got it dialed in best i could and she ran pretty good. But with my lack of time to ride it lately with rain, 140 mile round trip commutes, or freezing temps I haven't been riding her much... but the last two times I did, weird things were happening. I started to get something like a pulse in power while cruising at a constant throttle setting, or when accelerating smoothly (especially through 2nd and 3rd). Its really annoying. (It wasn't windy either, so I wouldn't expect intake pulses)

I feared the mixture is lean, so I did the check procycle recommended with the jet kit and it's possible it might be running slightly lean, but now that I've read about clogged pilot jet issues here, is that a possibility? The bike has sat for weeks between short runs (20miles) and not much gas has been cycled through.

Next time I run it I want to run it dry but I've got the stock petcock... We'll see. I wish suzuki would just inject this puppy so a lot of the fuel metering issues could be done with. what a great bike though eh?
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Old 11-07-2011, 09:16 PM   #56547
motolab
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cemory View Post
Interesting information. As I remember back to when I dropped the needle 1 clip position I believe I also closed the screw on the bottom of the carb back to the recommended 1 and a half turns out ( per Jesses instructions) I had been screwing it out more trying to get rid of the off idle bog. I am not sure what the fix was after reading your informative message, but I do know that dropping the needle and adjusting my carb screw back to 1 and a half turns out seems to have cured my issue. Before I dropped the needle you could blip the throttle at idle and sometimes it would kill the motor. It would definatly hesitate momemtarilly before the motor revved in responce to the sudden throttle opening. Just over 4000 miles on the carb.

Chris
Unless the slide lift hole area was increased by a substantial amount over stock, I don't really think the slide guide and emulsion tube could be worn out in 4K miles (still doesn't hurt to check though).

It might be interesting to try a little experiment. Measure and note the float height. Then, using a float height gauge, set it to 14.7mm. Start and let the engine warm up. Lower the idle speed below the factory spec. Starting from a setting that is known to be lean, adjust the mixture screw to obtain the highest idle speed. Adjust no more than 1/8 turn richer than that. Then, adjust the idle speed back to 1500 rpm. Note the final mixture screw setting. Ride the bike and see if the problem has returned. Report back with results.

Regards,

Derek
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Old 11-07-2011, 09:24 PM   #56548
motolab
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aerocycle View Post
I started to get something like a pulse in power while cruising at a constant throttle setting, or when accelerating smoothly (especially through 2nd and 3rd). Its really annoying. (It wasn't windy either, so I wouldn't expect intake pulses)

I feared the mixture is lean, so I did the check procycle recommended with the jet kit and it's possible it might be running slightly lean, but now that I've read about clogged pilot jet issues here, is that a possibility?
The pilot jet sure sounds like a likely candidate, but if you want to be sure, put some tape on the throttle housing and around the edge of the grip. Mark closed throttle with a sharpie. This is best done with the engine idling, so you can tell when the slack in the cable has just been taken up. Turn off the engine and mark wide open. Now take a tape measure (metric works best in my opinion) and measure the length of the arc. Put a mark at the mid point. Duplicate this procedure to mark the mid-point between here and closed throttle to get 1/4 open. Repeat for 1/8 and 1/16 openings.

With the help of the marks, determine precisely during what throttle opening(s) it misbehaves. Don't have an accident trying to look at the marks while riding. If you do, I'm not responsible! Report back with results. This will help us determine what circuit(s) are responsible.

Regards,

Derek
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Old 11-07-2011, 09:51 PM   #56549
TRAVELGUY
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Please don't "wish" for FI. The Internet is already to full of people trying to find different mapping for their FI bikes to make them run right. We sure don't need that here. If you want FI just wait a little and there will be a kit out there.

You can drain the carb with the drain screw on the float bowl faster than running it dry.

Next time I run it I want to run it dry but I've got the stock petcock... We'll see. I wish suzuki would just inject this puppy so a lot of the fuel metering issues could be done with. what a great bike though eh?[/QUOTE]
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Old 11-07-2011, 11:26 PM   #56550
LexTalionis
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eakins View Post
2nd guy to blanketly say that?

what ever happened to maintain/clean what you have in front of you? what about needing those skills for field repairs/on tour? also for most all, their local dealer will not have that part in stock so they wait another week vrs removing the pilot jet (you still remove it if you replace it) and clean it with carb cleaner and a small wire/needle if need be. he can get his bike running today.
I've owned a bunch of bikes, keeping them usually until at least 50k miles on the odo, including a KLR I recently sold that had 48K on the odo, and I've never had a carburetor problem with any of them (including my Valkyrie with SIX carbs and 50+k on the odometer) other than needing to fatten up the fuel/air mixture to overcome EPA-mandated leanness - my DR was the worst in that regard. Some of my bikes sit for a couple months without being ridden.

Maybe some of my good luck with carbs is attributed to a semi-annual dose of Techron in the fuel.

Anyway, so now I'm tuned in to this oft-quoted pilot jet problem, and I'm waiting for MY DR carb to start evidencing this problem.

But I'm with eakins, I'd try to fix it first (yeah, I know brass jets are easily hogged out by shoving wire through the aperture).

However, I'm unsure just where this pilot jet resides, and how to get it out. ronayers.com shows a pilot jet in the fiche, but not where it fits into the carb. I looked at "The BST-40 Bible" and there's no mention of a pilot jet; there is mention of an idle jet. To get out in front of an answer, I'm guessing the idle jet in the Bible is what we call the pilot jet, and the float needs to be removed to access it from the interior underside of the carb body. Correct?

And so, what does the F/A screw, screw into if not a jet? Just a conical area in the carb body? A conical brass fitting in the carb body?

I would appreciate an education from you or anyone else, my thanks in advance to all who respond.

Lex

Edit: Hmmm... Having read further in this thread (now at my post, here), I believe I'll just buy a pilot jet to have in the parts box, should a need arise, when next I place an order somewhere.
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LexTalionis screwed with this post 11-07-2011 at 11:44 PM Reason: Update
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