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Old 04-01-2012, 08:35 PM   #62281
Krogdor
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sagebrushocean View Post
I've been riding every day in Seattle, so the weather isn't what's causing your problem (directly). It does sound like a fueling issue. What color were your plugs when you changed them?

Things to check:

1. Operation of the starter enrichment cicruit ("choke"). When the bike is warm, pulling the choke lever towards you should stall the bike, or at least make it run a lot worse. If not, it could be stuck open. This happens when the cable rusts at the 90 degree bend by the carb.

2. If your bike is older, the o-ring in the needle valve seat may be shot.

3. If the float level is too high, it could cause the symptoms you're having.

4. Is the idle speed set correctly (high enough)?

5. Stock (vacuum-operated) petcock? Check the diaphragm for integrity.
Thanks for the response! My plugs were pretty blackened. I've also wondered about the choke and how well it functions because I don't notice much of a change at all from "on" to "off". If anything it almost runs a little better w/ the choke on.
The bike is a '04. Fyi. I'll check the petcock. Would that just not let enough fuel get through?

And at the risk of sounding stupid... the idle is adjusted on the vertically placed screw on the carb. The one you can adjust by hand right?

THANKS AGAIN!
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Old 04-01-2012, 08:43 PM   #62282
gjcarving
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nibis View Post
Got together with a group of six others that are going on the Missouri Swinging Bridges Ride, had a good time.


Hello. Just wanted to ask you what size Pelican case that is on your bike and how you mounted it. It looks great! And looks to be the size I would like on my bike. Thanks,
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Old 04-01-2012, 09:01 PM   #62283
doug s.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sagebrushocean View Post
I'm a big fan of the DR for its simplicity, reliability, and huge installed user base. But let's do some arithmetic:

Big bore 790cc kit with cylinder exchange: $860
Big valve head (exchange): $1200
Cam: $430
TM40 pumper carb: $450, maybe $350 if you sell your OEM carb

Front/rear suspension upgrade: maybe $500-$600 net if you sell off the OEM stuff, but still probably not as good as the OEM Euro bikes.

So now you've spent around $3500 above the cost of the DR (or ~$9500 total from a new DR @ MSRP), and you've spent quite a bit of your own free time in the garage, but you are still 5-10hp short, and around 40-50 pounds heavier, than the stock KTM 690 (MSRP maybe $10,500 or so?).

Would a 790cc 50+hp DR650 be more reliable than a KTM 690? Maybe. But to take advantage of the cam and big valves in the mega-DR you are going to have to run higher rpms, and that isn't going to do anything good for engine longevity. The center of that big piston is going to get mighty hot at high power output, and it's running on an iron liner instead of Nikasil.

If I wanted a 60+hp thumper with well-sorted suspension I would just buy a KTM or Husky and put up with the extra complication of liquid cooling, fuel injection (at least on the later models), ride-by-wire, etc. I suspect that I would take less of depreciation hit on the Euro bikes than on the over-the-top DR, if that matters.
agreed the motor is a spendy mod. but, i dunno where you get your pricing for the other stuff. shop used and save. my fcr39 carb, already set up for a dr650 w/aftermarket exhaust and open airbox cost me $130 shipped. my usd suzuki rm front end cost $250, but that included new race tech spring installed. my used rear shock w/racetech walving and eibach spring cost me $125 plus a stock shock set-up. my exhaust was expensive - $100 shipped for tsukigi titanium gsxr 1000 muffler, $140 shipped for fmf hi-flow powerbomb hedder, and $193 shipped for the kientech hi-flow midpipe.

so, i have just under $1k into it (w/o selling any old parts) and it runs fantastic, and now i am not even sure i need any other engine mods. for the street, going any faster than this one goes in the twisty bits means you're not gonna be long for this world anyway.

if i wanted, it would cost ~$2500 for the full monte engine mods for the dr650. (compare to what i yust read in motorcycle usa, where they did a full acropovic exhaust set up for the ktm duke - retail $2400, plus $450 dyno set up for custom ecu tune - a whopping 2 hp gain.) and, while i don't have first hand experience, from what i have read, the beauty of the dr engine mods is that you do not have to run higher revs; that the bike set up like that is a torque monster; you could prolly get away w/16 or even 17t sproket in the front and stock, and 41 or even 40 in the back.

don't get me wrong - i love the european bikes (especially the aprilia r/sxv's), but i am not feeling i am missing much w/the way my dr650 is set up. if i were racing, then i'd riding an sxv550... (and if i had the cash, that rxv550 wouldn't still be f/s in the fleamarket; but i'd still be keeping my dr650.)

ymmv,

doug s.
ps - do folks really drop 6 large on new dr's? i got mine, 2000 model w/8k miles; w/motard wheels/tires, acerbis tank, vapor tach/speedo, sst brake line for $1300... it needed the steering head bearings rebuilt and the rear wheel re-laced...
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Old 04-01-2012, 09:06 PM   #62284
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Sent PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by gjcarving View Post
Hello. Just wanted to ask you what size Pelican case that is on your bike and how you mounted it. It looks great! And looks to be the size I would like on my bike. Thanks,
PM you!
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Old 04-01-2012, 09:30 PM   #62285
sagebrushocean
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Krogdor View Post
Thanks for the response! My plugs were pretty blackened. I've also wondered about the choke and how well it functions because I don't notice much of a change at all from "on" to "off". If anything it almost runs a little better w/ the choke on.
Do you have to use the choke to get it started when cold? If not, it could be stuck open (or the fuel screw is out too far, or the pilot jet is too big). But if it USED to run fine, the problem is more likely the choke than jets or fuel screw.

Quote:
The bike is a '04. Fyi.
After 8 years it wouldn't be surprising if the needle o-ring is shot.

Quote:
the idle is adjusted on the vertically placed screw on the carb. The one you can adjust by hand right?
That's the one. If the choke is stuck open you can survive for awhile by turning the idle speed up. It's a poor fix, obviously.

Since this problem has just appeared recently, my guess is: 1) bad needle o-ring in the carb; or, 2) stuck choke. Both are easy and cheap to try, so not much lost if that's not the problem. Lube (or replace, if it's really rusty) the choke cable, and replace the o-ring. Check the float height when you have the carb apart.
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Old 04-01-2012, 09:31 PM   #62286
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I finally found some passenger pegs so I can take the grandson for rides on the DR. A member on TT is parting out a '98 in the DR650 swap meet. http://www.thumpertalk.com/topic/820.../page__st__280 Might be a source for some of those who are still looking for hard to find items?
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Old 04-01-2012, 09:48 PM   #62287
sagebrushocean
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doug s. View Post
agreed the motor is a spendy mod. but, i dunno where you get your pricing for the other stuff.
procycle.us

Quote:
shop used and save.
I do. But it's hard to compare prices except for new -- there are deals on KTMs and parts just like there are deals on DRs and parts.

Quote:
...it runs fantastic, and now i am not even sure i need any other engine mods. for the street, going any faster than this one goes in the twisty bits means you're not gonna be long for this world anyway.
I like my DR, too, but it will get left in the dust on any route by the KTM 690, TE630, etc. Sir Isaac won't be denied on this. However, my DR is all that I need.

Quote:
if i wanted, it would cost ~$2500 for the full monte engine mods for the dr650. (compare to what i yust read in motorcycle usa, where they did a full acropovic exhaust set up for the ktm duke - retail $2400, plus $450 dyno set up for custom ecu tune - a whopping 2 hp gain.)
The last few hp always cost the most. But the bone stock KTM (or Husky) have considerably more giddyup than the 790cc DR, and weigh less to boot.

Quote:
and, while i don't have first hand experience, from what i have read, the beauty of the dr engine mods is that you do not have to run higher revs;
Believe what you want, but the point of the big cam is to move the torque peak to higher rpm for more hp.

Quote:
that the bike set up like that is a torque monster; you could prolly get away w/16 or even 17t sproket in the front and stock, and 41 or even 40 in the back.
If higher top speed (rather than faster acceleration) is the goal, sure.

Quote:
ps - do folks really drop 6 large on new dr's? i got mine, 2000 model w/8k miles; w/motard wheels/tires, acerbis tank, vapor tach/speedo, sst brake line for $1300... it needed the steering head bearings rebuilt and the rear wheel re-laced...
I don't know who pays MSRP for either the DR or the KTM -- not you or me, apparently . But that's about the only price comparison that can be made objectively.
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Old 04-01-2012, 09:53 PM   #62288
Krogdor
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sagebrushocean View Post
Do you have to use the choke to get it started when cold? If not, it could be stuck open (or the fuel screw is out too far, or the pilot jet is too big). But if it USED to run fine, the problem is more likely the choke than jets or fuel screw.



After 8 years it wouldn't be surprising if the needle o-ring is shot.



That's the one. If the choke is stuck open you can survive for awhile by turning the idle speed up. It's a poor fix, obviously.

Since this problem has just appeared recently, my guess is: 1) bad needle o-ring in the carb; or, 2) stuck choke. Both are easy and cheap to try, so not much lost if that's not the problem. Lube (or replace, if it's really rusty) the choke cable, and replace the o-ring. Check the float height when you have the carb apart.
Thanks Sagebrushocean! I'll start there.
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Old 04-01-2012, 09:54 PM   #62289
Adv Grifter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toxic Mark View Post
We ended up 4 wheelin' instead.
I guess you guys really didn't want to ride anyway! BTW, if you pull the fuse on the grips ... or disconnect grip wires at the battery. End of problem, ride away.

What no fuse? Oh, well, that may relate to the problem in the first place!
But thanks for the tip ... Next time my clutch cable starts smoking ... I'll check for a short!
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Old 04-01-2012, 09:59 PM   #62290
Adv Grifter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Krogdor View Post
So my DR is my first bike w/ out fuel injection. I have had this bike for about a year and I love it. It ran great up until the last couple months or so. It seems to stutter a little and on stops running sometimes at lights. I've had it die a couple times after a hard deceleration. I don't know if the bike doesn't like Portland's cold and wet or if I need to adjust my carb. New oil, plugs, and air filter in the last week. I rode 60-70 miles today and it died on me twice. Any thoughts...?
What year is your bike? And how many miles? Has anyone been into the Carb before?
Is your bike ever parked outside? I would start simple and go forward from there. Drain Carb bowl. No help? Drain fuel tank or try fuel conditioner.
Check little fuel inlet filter where metal fuel line goes into Carb.

No help? Rotate Carb around, pull bowl, pull Main and Pilot jet, clean or replace both jets. Probably Pilot jet.

Adjust Pilot fuel/air screw once jets cleaned or renewed, then re-set idle. Other mentioned O ring on float bowl needle valve ... or worn needle jet. Both could be
the case on HIGH MILEAGE bike.

Adv Grifter screwed with this post 04-01-2012 at 10:14 PM
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Old 04-01-2012, 10:53 PM   #62291
Adv Grifter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sagebrushocean View Post
I like my DR, too, but it will get left in the dust on any route by the KTM 690, TE630, etc. Sir Isaac won't be denied on this. However, my DR is all that I need.

The last few hp always cost the most. But the bone stock KTM (or Husky) have considerably more giddyup than the 790cc DR, and weigh less to boot.
Generally true, but of course depends who's riding! No doubt both the KTM 690 and Husky 630 have some poop. I ride with several nearly every weekend ... and have ridden both, so am aware what they are capable of.

Also ridden a DR with a 705 kit and TM40 Carb. Not really much faster than a well set up stocker IMHO. Not impressed. I would not spend my money there.

For guys who want to dice in the twisties with the 690's and 630's there is a simple and cheap solution to help out the DR650: 14T countershaft sprocket/ 46T rear sprocket. (520 conversion required), over sized rotor and Brembo rotor and caliper. Leave the 21" on. Most times on the street it's more an advantage than disadvantage. (race track, different story)

This gearing should help the DR use all it's mighty 40 HP on tighter roads where speeds are limited to 70 or 80 mph tops, with corner speeds from 25 to 60 mph. Still tough to match a well ridden KTM 690, but if the DR well tuned with decent suspension ... you won't be far off the pace ... if your riding is up for it.

The Euro bikes win on power and braking. Handling is not perfect. If riding with Super Moto bikes ... just lead them down a nice wet and sandy road.
Now lets see how fast they are! Suddenly a 21' dual sport tire pays off.

Most DR riders could care less about street racing or keeping up with faster bikes ... but if that's of interest, the above suggestion will give instant gratification. Obviously, freeway cruising will be "compromised"

My DR is Multi Purpose so does a bit of everything. That's the beauty.
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Old 04-01-2012, 11:03 PM   #62292
Aerocycle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Krogdor View Post
So my DR is my first bike w/ out fuel injection. I have had this bike for about a year and I love it. It ran great up until the last couple months or so. It seems to stutter a little and on stops running sometimes at lights. I've had it die a couple times after a hard deceleration. I don't know if the bike doesn't like Portland's cold and wet or if I need to adjust my carb. New oil, plugs, and air filter in the last week. I rode 60-70 miles today and it died on me twice. Any thoughts...?
I had similar problems with mine when I bought it. (bought in Salem, Or) and it's not the weather.

It can be numerous things as many on this thread have pointed out. My bike used to die if I just pulled the clutch in and coasted. After fiddling around with the Idle rpm setting it stopped that. If you plan on keeping the stock carb now could be a good time to buy a jet kit. Then you can pull the carb, clean it, install the jet kit, and reinstall. However this isn't necessary.

One thing you definitely should do is pull the carb and clean it, but remove the plug and stock Idle mixture screw and install a extended screw so you can actually adjust it. The stock DR650 is usually pretty lean. Also pull out and discard the tiny pre-filter inside the carb fuel inlet tube. It's common for it to plug up, so install an in line filter and your worry free.

Hope this helps, they guys on this thread have been more then helpful ever since I picked up my Dr650 and joined the brotherhood a year ago.
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Old 04-01-2012, 11:05 PM   #62293
NordieBoy
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Originally Posted by Slideways#96 View Post
Anyone have a suggestion for a two piece chain guide, one that doesn't require chain removal?

Any suggestions greatly appreciated..

Thanks!
Jesse's one is adjustable for $79
http://www.kientech.com/DR650AdjustableChainGuide.htm
Procycles isn't adjustable for $46
http://www.procycle.us/bikepages/dr650.html#drivetrain

And the stock one is 2 piece as well.
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Old 04-02-2012, 02:54 AM   #62294
nii
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as I was cleaning my chain the other day, i realized that my countershaft sprocket has some axial slack (1milimeter maybe)

is this normal?
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Old 04-02-2012, 02:58 AM   #62295
Thanas
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What a few photo's and mention of other brand bikes can do..

I really love the DR, it is my first Dual Sport and couldn't be happier with it. My buddie with the KTM 690 SM isn't the fastest rider, so i had no problem with outrunning him on the road. only on the straight is there a difference in power noticable. Espacially with his 2nd gear power wheelies.... Off-road he doesn't dare venture, so no problem. Eventhough i had the TKC80 tires and he had Bridgestone BT090/016 tires, i could still leave him in the dust.

I really don't like modding my bike that much, well i actually love to do it, but with work, wife, kids, parents, family, house, etc. who has the time, i would rather spend that time riding than wrenching, i ride it every day and the past month i haven't been able to ride it because the rear wheel was beeing made, which took a lot of time. I hated it.

The nice thing with the KTM/ Husqvarna/ BMW is that apart from some wheels, i wouldn't need to do anything on them to be happy with them "ad infinitum". Perhaps get some airbox tweek and a remap for super smooth throttle control and be done.

The DR is great, but even totally modded, won't become a KTM/ Husqvarna/ BMW. And actually, why bother trying to get it there. It's great as is. I too love the simplicity. Besides, dropping the DR is ok, (always hurts) dust it off and keep going. With the KTM/ Husqvarna/ BMW.... not so nice?

Have to say, again, i really like the 110/80-19 & 150/70-17 tires on the DR, think it is just perfect. With the standard wheels and Heidenau K60 Scouts i was fairly confident off-road, but really knew it was limited. With these TKC80's, it feels real capable. Iff only the rider would twist the grip some more off-road...... I need to grow some...

I would actually include the follwing bikes in my future bike list:
BMW G 650 X Challenge (with 110/80-19 & 150/70-17 tires)
BMW G 650 X Country (with 110/80-19 & 150/70-17 tires)
KTM 690 Enduro R (with 110/80-19 & 150/70-17 tires)
Husqvarna TE630 (with 110/80-19 & 150/70-17 tires)

KTM 690 SMC
Suzuki DR-Z 400 SM

Greets,
Thanas
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