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Old 05-09-2012, 06:16 AM   #64036
jon_l
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikey Boy View Post
Ok so a major electrical crisis happened today. 2011 DR. The license plate light ground and power wires came loose and touched while the bike was running and burned up a bunch wiring. The bike died before i could shut it off. No battery power now. The 30a fuse blew so I replaced that but still no power. The battery terminals are fine and the wiring coating is all burned up but the wires still look ok. I hope the fuses protected the battery from the short but I don't know. I didn't have time to really dig around as I was late and had to jump in my car but tomorrow night I will get some pictures up and hopefully have a clearer idea of what's wrong. Since every problem with a DR had been fixed on this thread I thought I'd post up and see if you fellow inmates can give me some target areas to focus on. I would love to get this fixed myself with some handiwork and electrical tape. I have disconnected the license plate light wiring from the harness but the short went up past that. Ayudame!
Unless the wiring was molested and that caused the problem, why not let Suzuki deal with it, if your 2011 bike is still under warranty.
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Old 05-09-2012, 06:40 AM   #64037
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sagedrifter View Post
I don't shift to 5th till 60 mph indicated to avoid lugging the engine when riding normal. I'll hold it longer in 4th when getting on the interstate etc. RPM is your friend when accelerating. It's a 650 single....
I agree.

Even with the 14T front, I don't shift out of 4th until I hit 60 mph (indicated). 50 mph in 5th gear- trying to accelerate- does not feel good on my DR. It's hard to say what the RPM's are without a tach, but it feels like it's lugging to me.

.............shu
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Old 05-09-2012, 07:00 AM   #64038
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ER70S-2 View Post
BadDogMax's post explained my issues exactly, so I joined in with my trouble shooting. You may have been talking to him, since he posted the video.

I'm not trying to cut in, but I'll add this: I'm an admitted short shifter. But this problem never occurred in the first 22,000 miles. There was no hint of this vibration. It started slowly after replacing the chain with a new EK. After a few thousand miles of that, I put on a new DID. The problem, although lighter at first, has continued. Both chains had/have a riveted master link, done slowly with many digital caliper checks while pressing on the side plate.

Analogy: when someone attacks your swingarm pivot with a jack hammer while riding, you'll know right away 'that ain't right'.

Both rear wheel bearings and the cush hub bearing are new (twice during this) and the hub cushions are also new. Both had zero impact on the problem.
Back to our regular programming.

I was starting to get worried that something was seriously wrong as I have the vibes also.I have a 2009 3k miles and had the vibes since day 1 at 800 miles. I first thought it was the engine at a certain RPM issue. Doesn't really feel like a jackhammer but rather deep rattle at speeds talked about already, mine around 40-45 and only last during that 5 MPR zone then once under or above 40-45 it is gone . Can feel it on my pegs. I have the 14t front and stock rear. Took out the top roller when purchased. I was thinking it could be the top roller also. But the video helps to show it is the chain which makes me happy that it isn't in the engine.
Very interested in eliminating this issue or if it is totally normal and will be fine.

Thanks for visiting this area of concern.
boulder
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Old 05-09-2012, 07:34 AM   #64039
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shu View Post
i agree.

Even with the 14t front, i don't shift out of 4th until i hit 60 mph (indicated). 50 mph in 5th gear- trying to accelerate- does not feel good on my dr. It's hard to say what the rpm's are without a tach, but it feels like it's lugging to me.

.............shu
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Old 05-09-2012, 07:53 AM   #64040
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jon_l View Post
Unless the wiring was molested and that caused the problem, why not let Suzuki deal with it, if your 2011 bike is still under warranty.
Good advice. My wire fire wasted the entire wiring harness. I never found the source, but everything was melted together in the main harness. $250 Suzuki part. Fortunately I had a good friend give me one off a parts bike.
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Old 05-09-2012, 07:53 AM   #64041
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shu View Post
I agree.

Even with the 14T front, I don't shift out of 4th until I hit 60 mph (indicated). 50 mph in 5th gear- trying to accelerate- does not feel good on my DR. It's hard to say what the RPM's are without a tach, but it feels like it's lugging to me.

.............shu
... Or, maybe everyone is suffering with the oscillation problem, and some solve it by revving the engine to 8000RPM before shifting?

Just kidding, this vibration is not like the bucking bronco you get when lugging the engine. I think the "jackhammering on the swingarm" description is close.

In fact, if I intentionally lug the engine while accelerating, the bucking bronco will go away as the RPM increases, then suddenly the jackhammering will start at maybe 50-55MPH, then suddenly stop again at 60MPH.

There is no jackhammer at steady state or at medium to full acceleration. Only with gentle acceleration or slight uphill. Not the kind of acceleration you'd normally downshift for, like passing a car, or racing that dude on the DRZ400 who lives in the next housing tract.

Here's my latest theory: the BST carb has a vacuum operated slide that has some resonant frequency where it's most likely to oscillate up/down. The chain on this bike has a very long span, and when stretched with the right tension by acceleration, also has a resonant frequency like a guitar string. When those two resonant frequencies are the same (or perhaps a harmonic of one another) the following sequence happens: the engine fires a pulse, whipping the chain, which causes a jerk back to the engine, which creates vacuum, which causes the carb slide to undershoot, which causes the engine to stumble, which whips the chain, and then the process repeats.

Low RPM lugging would be be basically the same mechanism, except without the added resonance of the chain. So the jackhammering is like a second onset of lugging, once you're past the "normal" lugging you'd get on a BST-equipped DR.

So if my theory holds any water, the million dollar questions is this: Have any of us experiencing the jackhammering drilled the carb slide? This would change the resonant frequency of the slide and perhaps break up the resonance problem.

I have not drilled mine, my carb is stock except for a washer under the needle and a ProCycle mixture screw.

I have the same vibes with the 15t sprocket btw.
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Old 05-09-2012, 07:57 AM   #64042
Mikey Boy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jon_l View Post
Unless the wiring was molested and that caused the problem, why not let Suzuki deal with it, if your 2011 bike is still under warranty.
Unfortunately it was molested by me while removing the fender and changing the taillight. I dont know how they crossed as I thought I capped them off securely(I should of just unplugged the freakin connector but I was working fast and being stupid). I doubt Suzuki will cover anything on it. I will get a picture up tonight of what i'm dealing with.
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Old 05-09-2012, 07:59 AM   #64043
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A large displacement single cylinder motor is all about pulses.

The video shows why a cush hub is necessary on this bike.

I have a drilled slide and don't think I have the chain shake like the video shows, but I don't really know. It's been so long since I drilled it that I have no recall about the bike before drilling.
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Old 05-09-2012, 08:01 AM   #64044
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meter Man View Post
I've fallen back in love with the DR. Maybe I will pull it off the market....

Seems odd that I can't sell it for 15% below book value in Montana, land of the fireroad......

You're probably being protected by a nonspecifichighersource until you came to your senses.

I don't ride as much I would like and sometimes think - "maybe I should sell it" (usually refering to the Strom) but then I ride it. One good day of riding your bike around (maybe that's what happened) and bingo....back in lust.
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Old 05-09-2012, 08:29 AM   #64045
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BadDogMax View Post
... Or, maybe everyone is suffering with the oscillation problem, and some solve it by revving the engine to 8000RPM before shifting?

Just kidding, this vibration is not like the bucking bronco you get when lugging the engine. I think the "jackhammering on the swingarm" description is close.

In fact, if I intentionally lug the engine while accelerating, the bucking bronco will go away as the RPM increases, then suddenly the jackhammering will start at maybe 50-55MPH, then suddenly stop again at 60MPH.
I have not drilled mine, my carb is stock except for a washer under the needle and a ProCycle mixture screw.

I have the same vibes with the 15t sprocket btw.
I have never experienced vibes as you describe, from stock through sprocket changes and carb mods (including drilling the slide). It sounds like something has "always" been wrong the way you describe it. I would focus on sprocket runout (as mongle suggested) and chain alignment. You have possibly had a rear sprocket that was not machined properly from the start, as in the bolt hole center is slightly off (causing rotation to move ever so slightly in and out of a perfect circle). Also check overall alignment by running a straight edge alongside of the rear sprocket and parallel with the chain

I have experienced the common lugging vibrations and was able to improve that quite a bit (but not eliminate) with carb tuning. It will never go away with the CV carb.
Good luck!


Edit: there could also be an issue with the hub itself and the alignment of bolt holes and axle centers, but I would focus on the sprocket first.

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Old 05-09-2012, 08:48 AM   #64046
ram1000
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bouldertag View Post
I was starting to get worried that something was seriously wrong as I have the vibes also.I have a 2009 3k miles and had the vibes since day 1 at 800 miles. I first thought it was the engine at a certain RPM issue. Doesn't really feel like a jackhammer but rather deep rattle at speeds talked about already, mine around 40-45 and only last during that 5 MPR zone then once under or above 40-45 it is gone . Can feel it on my pegs. I have the 14t front and stock rear. Took out the top roller when purchased. I was thinking it could be the top roller also. But the video helps to show it is the chain which makes me happy that it isn't in the engine.
Very interested in eliminating this issue or if it is totally normal and will be fine.

Thanks for visiting this area of concern.
boulder
My first guess for vibes is always motor mount bolts, especially in the head...
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Old 05-09-2012, 09:29 AM   #64047
Olas
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I know about the vibes, and I would have to agree that lugging the motor is what brings them out. I also have a 14t and stock rear sprocket and 50MPH is way to low to be shifting into 5th...I would definitely consider that lugging. My DR definitely lets me know when I'm lugging her by way of increased vibes. Keeping the RPMs high makes it run much smoother, IMO.
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Old 05-09-2012, 09:40 AM   #64048
Tech23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BadDogMax View Post
I'll add that the video was taken while accelerating from 50-60MPH in 5th gear, with a 14t front sprocket. Not lugging it IMO.

I appreciate all the help and theories... maybe we can solve this thing!

Do you still have the stock BST 40 CV carb on your bike? If so is the top of the air box cut/modified?

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Old 05-09-2012, 10:20 AM   #64049
Rumlover
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Vibrations

I hadn't rode my bike for a few days, so I just went out for a little test run. I have a 14/43 gearing and a pretty well dialed in BST. I did a couple of roll-ons at 50mph (stock speedo) in 5th gear (used 50 instead of 55 because of 43t rear). It was turning around 3500rpm at the time, which is about as low as I want to turn in 5th gear with a normal load (my fat ass).

50mph roll on was plenty fast to avoid the common lugging\lurching issue but I did pick up an "ever so slight" vibration in the footpegs untill about 55mph. But I had to be really concentrating to feel it and had never noticed it before. I consider this completly normal for a big single, with CV carb, on it's way up through the power band (once over 4000rpm it really comes to life).
But seriously if this is what some of you are noticing you are far more picky then me. I would have never noticed it if I wasn't really REALLY trying to pick something up.
If I was doing anything other then cruising --- had a passenger, going uphill, or just accelerating hard in general, I sure as heck would be downshifting.

I am not discounting other issues magnifying the vibration, but overall It is not a happy place for the motor, in 5th gear with a load.

I suggest picking up the RPMs (downshifting) if you are loading the motor between 50\55mph in 5th, or switch carbs.

Just my opinion

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Old 05-09-2012, 10:44 AM   #64050
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BadDogMax View Post
... Or, maybe everyone is suffering with the oscillation problem, and some solve it by revving the engine to 8000RPM before shifting?

Just kidding, this vibration is not like the bucking bronco you get when lugging the engine. I think the "jackhammering on the swingarm" description is close.

In fact, if I intentionally lug the engine while accelerating, the bucking bronco will go away as the RPM increases, then suddenly the jackhammering will start at maybe 50-55MPH, then suddenly stop again at 60MPH.

There is no jackhammer at steady state or at medium to full acceleration. Only with gentle acceleration or slight uphill. Not the kind of acceleration you'd normally downshift for, like passing a car, or racing that dude on the DRZ400 who lives in the next housing tract.

Here's my latest theory: the BST carb has a vacuum operated slide that has some resonant frequency where it's most likely to oscillate up/down. The chain on this bike has a very long span, and when stretched with the right tension by acceleration, also has a resonant frequency like a guitar string. When those two resonant frequencies are the same (or perhaps a harmonic of one another) the following sequence happens: the engine fires a pulse, whipping the chain, which causes a jerk back to the engine, which creates vacuum, which causes the carb slide to undershoot, which causes the engine to stumble, which whips the chain, and then the process repeats.

Low RPM lugging would be be basically the same mechanism, except without the added resonance of the chain. So the jackhammering is like a second onset of lugging, once you're past the "normal" lugging you'd get on a BST-equipped DR.

So if my theory holds any water, the million dollar questions is this: Have any of us experiencing the jackhammering drilled the carb slide? This would change the resonant frequency of the slide and perhaps break up the resonance problem.

I have not drilled mine, my carb is stock except for a washer under the needle and a ProCycle mixture screw.

I have the same vibes with the 15t sprocket btw.
I quoted this whole message because it's so accurate to what's also going on with mine. I have not drilled the slide. I think your latest theory is quite possible, but I'm not enthusiastic about buying a $470 TM-40 to try out. I think you should do it.

Next time you have the rear wheel off, look for wear a mark about 3" in from the left (welded on) snail adjuster. I posted pics a few pages back.

My jackhammering is not a harsh, metal on metal, clanking (hammer and chisel). The impact and resonance is there, but there seems to be some sort of damping, perhaps the hub cushions.

I'm going to put my 16t on before I ride today. Although too tall for my altitude, it was smoother on my Kali trip in February and needs a second ride, paying closer attention. The hammering was almost nonexistant with the 16t at sea level. This contradicts the 'rpm too low' theory somewhat, the 16t would lower my rpm, not spin it up.
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