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Old 09-28-2012, 09:39 AM   #69586
motolab
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Quote:
Originally Posted by philp38 View Post
The DJ Kit and drilled slide also worked great on my 2009.
Do you have any dyno charts with CO traces to share?

Regards,

Derek
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Old 09-28-2012, 09:39 AM   #69587
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Originally Posted by Rusty Rocket View Post
Still working fine on my '96 too.
Do you have any dyno charts with CO traces to share?

Regards,

Derek
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Old 09-28-2012, 09:58 AM   #69588
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Quote:
Originally Posted by motolab View Post
Do you have any dyno charts with CO traces to share?

Regards,

Derek


as long as I'm happy, no need for paperwork.
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Old 09-28-2012, 10:10 AM   #69589
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Old 09-28-2012, 10:20 AM   #69590
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Originally Posted by Mobiker View Post
I did something similar in the past. One suggestion: turn the bolts over. That way they aren't protruding into the case.
One more thought: when I did it I bought some pieces of flat steel at the local hardware store and bolted through them. Kind of like a long washer to spread out the stress on the plastic box.
I've been meaning to get some shorter bolts and do some work to the bottom of the case. It rattles and moves around back there when I'm moving around off road, but for just commuting to work and back, it isn't a problem. One idea I'd heard was putting a U-bolt around the rack right at the front so it's attached front and back. I was also planning on putting wing nuts or something that's removable by hand so I don't have to break out the tools each time I want to take it off.
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Old 09-28-2012, 10:49 AM   #69591
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as long as I'm happy, no need for paperwork.
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Old 09-28-2012, 10:52 AM   #69592
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I am constantly reminded " The more I learn it becomes apparent how little I know." I gain knowledge which only leads to more questions. I have been using an Innovate unit to help with fuel trims and it has become obvious that there is alot more to the process. An exhaust gas analyzer is in my future. I am an auto tech with more years of experience than I'll admit and can use it professionally when I get to tune carbs on the street rods when they come in. They are typically set up with an out of the box carb recommended by some salesperson on the phone. The owner may think it runs good but a properly setup carb can wake up the sleepy beast.
Motolab.......Thank you for your input and help.
And you who are content with your ride, ride on and keep the rubber side down.
Quote:
Originally Posted by motolab View Post
Do you have any dyno charts with CO traces to share?

Regards,

Derek
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Old 09-28-2012, 11:16 AM   #69593
motolab
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Originally Posted by Chill View Post
I see a lot of posts on here about people having carb and jetting problems and understand that tuning a carb on a DR is a bit of an enigma and no two are the same it seems.
Tuning a carb on a DR is no more of an enigma than on any other bike. It is true that there will be variations based on the exact modifications that were performed, but there are trends, and those will always hold. For example, in relationship to a needle shape such as OEM/non-USA OEM/KTM/FP, a needle with a shape like the DJ needle will always tend to create a CO trace shaped more like the one in the chart I posted. In relationship to stock, the large main jet required by an opened airbox will also tend to create a CO trace shape more like the one in the chart, which of course means countermeasures should be taken instead of installing a needle such as the DJ that exaggerates a then already existing negative trend.
Quote:
Currently my bike is stock and runs as expected, I get a bit of "hammering" at low revs and there is a definite lack of throttle response low down. All perfectly as expected for the DR.
During what combination(s) of throttle position and rpm does this lack of response manifest?
Quote:
If I put this in the STD airbox will I need to adjust the carb?
Verifying that the jetting is correct is always beneficial.
Quote:
If I do the airbox mod will there be any benefit and again will I have to adjust the carb?
There should be more power available from the opened airbox and it absolutely requires jetting changes.
Quote:
How do you tell if it's running lean or rich?
A rich condition will behave worse when hot. A lean condition will behave worse when cold. The ignition timing and compression should be conservative enough as standard (temporarily use supreme to be sure) so that you can safely lean out each circuit until you just get a lean misbehavior. A good rule of thumb is to then richen from that cusp by 2-3 jet sizes/1-2 clip positions.
Quote:
And without a full exhaust upgrade is there any benefit to a TM40 and how hard is it to get these to run well?
The compression and ignition timing on a DR are probably such that the improved cylinder filling afforded by a flat slide carb will nothing but beneficial, but I'd still want to have a look at NOX or a cylinder pressure trace to be sure. Perhaps a move to premium would be in order. Some are annoyed by the heavier throttle pull of the TM. To get a sense of the tuning challenges, see http://www.advrider.com/forums/showpost.php?p=18991504&postcount=66600 (everything mentioned there about the FCR applies to the TM as well).

Regards,

Derek
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Old 09-28-2012, 11:17 AM   #69594
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rusty Rocket View Post


as long as I'm happy, no need for paperwork.
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Old 09-28-2012, 11:32 AM   #69595
motolab
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Originally Posted by acesandeights View Post
I agree in principle; however, in some places non-ethanol fuel is only available in premium unleaded and my bike always runs better with non-ethanol. I thought I had a fouled carb and ran a couple tanks of non-ethanol and it started running right. Anytime I start with a fresh tank of non-ethanol, it's a night and day difference.

It's a Catch 22 I guess because I think it's supposed to run on 87-octane, non-ethanol, but it's just unavailable anywhere near me. So, premium is a waste, but then again, it isn't.
Be aware that the extra octane that premium has often comes from the addition of ethanol. Ethanol fuels are also inherently oxygenated, which is beneficial unless the mixture is already too lean without it. With the proper jetting, ethanol can make great power, and I prefer ethanol to the light aromatics often otherwise used to improve octane, because they are incredibly toxic and don't add any oxygen. I think the main drawbacks to ethanol are that it sucks up moisture if not stored in a sealed container (which then leads to poor running and corrosion of components), that it's bad for most rubber except Viton, and that it gums up the works pretty bad if allowed to sit in a carb and evaporate (I don't know if this last item is a factor of ethanol in general or only of ethanol/gasoline blends).

Regards,

Derek
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Old 09-28-2012, 11:46 AM   #69596
motolab
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Originally Posted by Rusty Rocket View Post


as long as I'm happy, no need for paperwork.
I'm glad you are happy with the way your bike runs! However, without data, what you are talking about is in reality purely subjective, unquantified, unproven, and therefore of little use to others.

Regards,

Derek
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Old 09-28-2012, 11:50 AM   #69597
motolab
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Originally Posted by Paddle007 View Post
An exhaust gas analyzer is in my future.
Bravo!

Regards,

Derek
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Old 09-28-2012, 12:05 PM   #69598
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Quote:
Originally Posted by motolab View Post
I'm glad you are happy with the way your bike runs! However, without data, what you are talking about is in reality purely subjective, unquantified, unproven, and therefore of little use to others.

Regards,

Derek

If a number of individuals on this forum with the Dynojet kit are happy with the performance of their bikes that is of use to me. Subjective and anecdotal data has a place as do dyno charts but not everyone has a dyno operation near by.
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Old 09-28-2012, 12:54 PM   #69599
motolab
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Originally Posted by barko1 View Post
If a number of individuals on this forum with the Dynojet kit are happy with the performance of their bikes that is of use to me. Subjective and anecdotal data has a place as do dyno charts but not everyone has a dyno operation near by.
I would agree with you if even just one person could provide a dyno chart for a DR650 using a DJ needle with a reasonably flat CO trace. Neither asking here, nor searching on the internet has produced any result. On the other hand I know from first hand tuning experience with countless CV carbureted engines what to expect from a shape such as that of the DJ needle and we have a dyno chart to back that up.

Regards,

Derek
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Old 09-28-2012, 01:07 PM   #69600
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I like the Pro Cycle needle because it can be adjusted. The stock needle I was shimming with washers. The Pro Cycle kit worked very well for me (150 main jet) and stopped the surging. I also opened the air box, drilled the slide and installed an adjustable air fuel mixture screw. My 2009 idles and runs much smoother since the mods. I wish I had a dyno chart of before and after the mods.
P.S The mods cost me a couple miles per gallon but I think it was worth it.


QUOTE=motolab;19701580]I would agree with you if even just one person could provide a dyno chart for a DR650 using a DJ needle with a reasonably flat CO trace. Neither asking here, nor searching on the internet has produced any result. On the other hand I know from first hand tuning experience with countless CV carbureted engines what to expect from a shape such as that of the DJ needle and we have a dyno chart to back that up.

Regards,

Derek[/QUOTE]
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