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Old 10-03-2012, 12:57 AM   #69811
Thumper Dan
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Location: Australia, Northern NSW
Oddometer: 285
Quote:
Originally Posted by deathu View Post
This deffinitely is one of the possibilities I am thinking about. Until now I understand that the possible causes may be:
- enine mounts not torqued correctly
- counterbalancer off by a few teeth (I don't know the history of the engine, I don't know if it was opened or not)
- valve timing may be incorrect (camshaft may be off by one tooth? would the engine even work in this situation?)

Any other possible causes?

LE. Just rode from work to home, and I did a new test. Got to a speed where the vibrations were problematic, grabbed the clutch, let the engine idle for a second then revved it to about the same RPM it was running before, while still holding the clutch. The bad vibes came back, the same as under load. I think this eliminates the drive train as a possible cause...it must be the engine
I remember on this very forum (the only one I really read ) and someone was having similar issues with vibration and thought it was the chain etc etc. It turned out to be dodgy cush drive rubbers. He replaced them and everything was fine again.

Its going to be a process of elimination unfortunately. Do the simple things like the chain sprocket replacement.......check. Engine mounts are torqued to correct spec.........check. Cush drive rubber replacement........check (you get the idea). If it isn't the parts that I just mentioned, at least you'll have spares and peace of mind that you've eliminated them. Not sure about the counter balance and how to remedy but maybe Jeff from procycle can chime in :)..

But please make sure you let us all know what happens so this library of info keeps building.

good luck
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Thumper Dan screwed with this post 10-03-2012 at 01:02 AM
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Old 10-03-2012, 02:28 AM   #69812
BergDonk
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Joined: Nov 2010
Location: Snowy Mountains Oz
Oddometer: 2,595
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adv Grifter View Post
My DR clunks pretty good going into 1st also. The 1st to 2nd shift I do kinda slow, and that seems to help. Not much I know to make that clunk go away.

I know sometimes different oil seems to help. But (for me) as oil wears down seems the clunk becomes more severe.
I use Mobil One synthetic Car oil (for High Mileage cars) It has no friction modifiers. Been using it for 35,000 miles now.
I usually mix in about a half quart of Chevron Delo 400 (Dino oil) with the Mobil One. Seems to work well and shifting is better for about 1000 miles ... then clunk returns.
But I believe the Delo may help some .... Strictly seat of the pants call here. Good luck.
IMHO if you notice an improvement in shifting and/or clutch operation after an oil change then you are not changing your oil often enough as its breaking down and your engine is suffering as a result. Forget the Mobil 1 and just use the Delo 400. Not 400 LE, just 400. I also add a splash of Lucas stabilizer, about 5%, and change at up to 4,000 km intervals with no noticable change in behaviour.
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Old 10-03-2012, 03:49 AM   #69813
deathu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thumper Dan View Post
I remember on this very forum (the only one I really read ) and someone was having similar issues with vibration and thought it was the chain etc etc. It turned out to be dodgy cush drive rubbers. He replaced them and everything was fine again.

Its going to be a process of elimination unfortunately. Do the simple things like the chain sprocket replacement.......check. Engine mounts are torqued to correct spec.........check. Cush drive rubber replacement........check (you get the idea). If it isn't the parts that I just mentioned, at least you'll have spares and peace of mind that you've eliminated them. Not sure about the counter balance and how to remedy but maybe Jeff from procycle can chime in :)..

But please make sure you let us all know what happens so this library of info keeps building.

good luck
Thanks, but I did replace the cush drive rubbers, along with the chain and sprockets... now I have under 1000miles on the new components. I wish it was that, because it would have been one of the most simple things to fix.

I really hope it's not the counterbalancer being a few teeth off, fixing that would require splitting the crankcase. I don't know if I could even verify this without splitting the case... hope the punch marks are visible when the side covers and top end are off the engine... maybe somebody can confirm this. This will definitely be the last thing to check, if all else fails.
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Old 10-03-2012, 04:16 AM   #69814
dryder
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Are those plastics still available?

Are the side plastics in good shape? Black right?
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Old 10-03-2012, 05:18 AM   #69815
wee-twin
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Joined: Sep 2009
Location: Westchester County, N.Y.
Oddometer: 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by ram1000 View Post
Does it have a high compression piston? Mine does and it is smooth until I use the power. Cruising its just fine.
No, stock piston. But I do not think a high compression piston is the cause of your vibration. I am far from an expert on this, but you might have the same problem as me.

wee-twin screwed with this post 10-03-2012 at 05:48 AM Reason: More info
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Old 10-03-2012, 05:30 AM   #69816
wee-twin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NordieBoy View Post
Look down and see if the front of the chain is jumping around.

If the vibes smooth out under heavy acceleration, then it's probably the chain.
I am running smooth untill I go up a hill or accelerate,then i get the vibes. It is easier to notice going up a hill as i do not have to downshift, but as soon as more load is put on the drivetrain i get the vibes.I am running without the countershaft sprocket cover so I could see if anything does not look right. CC sprocket is a bit worn but rear socket looks fine and with 14t front my chain adjuster is at 4. Chain was filthy and a bit stiff when I got bike, but I have been taking care of it now.

wee-twin screwed with this post 10-03-2012 at 05:49 AM
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Old 10-03-2012, 05:44 AM   #69817
wee-twin
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Location: Westchester County, N.Y.
Oddometer: 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thumper Dan View Post
I remember on this very forum (the only one I really read ) and someone was having similar issues with vibration and thought it was the chain etc etc. It turned out to be dodgy cush drive rubbers. He replaced them and everything was fine again.

Its going to be a process of elimination unfortunately. Do the simple things like the chain sprocket replacement.......check. Engine mounts are torqued to correct spec.........check. Cush drive rubber replacement........check (you get the idea). If it isn't the parts that I just mentioned, at least you'll have spares and peace of mind that you've eliminated them. Not sure about the counter balance and how to remedy but maybe Jeff from procycle can chime in :)..

But please make sure you let us all know what happens so this library of info keeps building.

good luck
For checking my cushdrive, I did a visual of them and they were not beat up or a sloppy fit. Then with the wheel off the ground and the bike in gear I grabbed the wheel forward and backward to check for slop. Is that an accurate check? I guess as you pointed out, buy a chain set and install each piece till problem solved same with cushdrive. I will have to make order and I will report back. Now I have to decide on which chain and sprocket ration.......
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Old 10-03-2012, 06:08 AM   #69818
Rusty Rocket
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Joined: Dec 2005
Location: Northcentral CT
Oddometer: 7,804
Quote:
Originally Posted by deathu View Post
Indeed knobby tires do add some vibration, but the vibration I have is much worse than that caused by knobby tires alone. I currently have Pirelli MT21s on the bike. If I grab the clutch lever at speed and let the engine idle, the vibration level drops significantly, even though the bike is still rolling at 110km/h on those MT21s. This makes me think that the actual source of the worst vibrations is the engine itself, unless I am overlooking something...
Did you compare the feel of things while in neutral and sitting still. By revving the engines on both bikes? What about pulling in the clutch while at speed to see if it is a chassis/driveline or engine thing?
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Old 10-03-2012, 08:59 AM   #69819
Adv Grifter
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Joined: Jan 2010
Location: Passing ADV Stalkers in California
Oddometer: 6,128
Quote:
Originally Posted by deathu View Post
Thanks, but I did replace the cush drive rubbers, along with the chain and sprockets... now I have under 1000miles on the new components. I wish it was that, because it would have been one of the most simple things to fix.

I really hope it's not the counterbalancer being a few teeth off, fixing that would require splitting the crankcase. I don't know if I could even verify this without splitting the case... hope the punch marks are visible when the side covers and top end are off the engine... maybe somebody can confirm this. This will definitely be the last thing to check, if all else fails.
This looks like a difficult problem. As mentioned before, sometimes loosening up all the engine mount bolts ... then re-tightening them in the correct order and in steps ... this may help some.

But unfortunately ... it sort of sounds like something in the engine.

Most DR650's, if the drive line is in good shape, run pretty smooth (for a Thumper) at 70 mph to 80 mph. i've had three ... and all were quite smooth at speed.

Can we assume your bike still has standard Suzuki handlebar rubber mounts in place? And, are the rubber mounted foot pegs still in place?
If not ... (and your buddies bike DOES have those things) then that could be the reason for the difference in the two bikes.
I still hold out hope for a cheap and simple solution for you!
All the best!
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Old 10-03-2012, 11:21 AM   #69820
Jammin
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Question CDI from new model in old model?

Hey guys,
I need the help of two DRs for swapping CDIs to confirm something for me. I'm looking for riders in the same location with a 2006 DR and a 1996-1999 one. I'd like to see if plugging in the CDI from the 2006 will work in the 1996-1999 models.

I've had some mechanics in Nairobi take a look at my CDI and just by looking at it they say the CDI is faulty because the blue capacitor has melted part way thru the silicone cover on the bottom of the CDI and there's these small rocks that are stuck to the silicone cover that they say are melted parts of the circuit board. My 98 CDI and the 2001 CDI that I got from South Africa both look like this.

Could someone with a functioning bike please unbolt their CDI and take a look at the bottom and confirm that you can't see a blue capacitor or white stones coming thru?

I have a spare CDI from a 2006 DR sitting in India and it's going to take a few weeks to get to me. I'd like to know if I can rely on that CDI to work in my DR or whether I have to look for another unit.

Thanks!
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Old 10-03-2012, 11:59 AM   #69821
deathu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rusty Rocket View Post
What about pulling in the clutch while at speed to see if it is a chassis/driveline or engine thing?
Thanks, I tried that, and the result of all tests seems to indicate the engine itself as the source of the worst vibrations. I mentioned these tests a few posts ago...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adv Grifter View Post
This looks like a difficult problem. As mentioned before, sometimes loosening up all the engine mount bolts ... then re-tightening them in the correct order and in steps ... this may help some.

But unfortunately ... it sort of sounds like something in the engine.

Most DR650's, if the drive line is in good shape, run pretty smooth (for a Thumper) at 70 mph to 80 mph. i've had three ... and all were quite smooth at speed.

Can we assume your bike still has standard Suzuki handlebar rubber mounts in place? And, are the rubber mounted foot pegs still in place?
If not ... (and your buddies bike DOES have those things) then that could be the reason for the difference in the two bikes.
I still hold out hope for a cheap and simple solution for you!
All the best!
Can you please tell me the correct order in which the engine mounts are to be tightened? I can't locate this information in the service manual, only the correct torque values are mentioned.

Yes, the bike still has the rubber parts for the handlebar support and footpegs. Actually at sppeeds over 120km/h the vibrations are so bad that you feel them very harsh even through the seat, not only handlebars and footpegs.

On the buddy's bike I felt I could easily cruise all day long at 130 to 140km/h (from a vibration point of view), the only issue would be the lack of wind protection at these speeds.

deathu screwed with this post 10-03-2012 at 12:06 PM
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Old 10-03-2012, 12:26 PM   #69822
Escaped
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It is the same process as tightening any multi fastener item. Loosen all bolts, tighten one slightly then tighten the one across from the first one, then slightly tighten the next loose one slightly and the one across from that. Then start over the process by tightening with greater force untill all are tighten up to specification.

PS: Don't break off the bolts! :)

Quote:
Originally Posted by deathu View Post
Can you please tell me the correct order in which the engine mounts are to be tightened? I can't locate this information in the service manual, only the correct torque values are mentioned.
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Old 10-03-2012, 01:34 PM   #69823
procycle
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Location: Center of the DR650 universe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jammin View Post
Could someone with a functioning bike please unbolt their CDI and take a look at the bottom and confirm that you can't see a blue capacitor or white stones coming thru?

I have a spare CDI from a 2006 DR sitting in India and it's going to take a few weeks to get to me. I'd like to know if I can rely on that CDI to work in my DR or whether I have to look for another unit.
Weird! But apparently normal.
This is the CDI on my 1999:
.
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Old 10-03-2012, 02:11 PM   #69824
thetable
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Location: Western Loudoun Co, VA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by procycle View Post
Weird! But apparently normal.
This is the CDI on my 1999:
.
Is that a silicone cover or potting compound? Definitely looks like the latter, which would just be poured in and allowed to cure. It is odd that they wouldn't use enough to cover everything though.
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Old 10-03-2012, 02:36 PM   #69825
Mongle
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I don't know if I would call that normal... I refuse to pull mine off and look at it now...I do not want to know if mine looks like that...because if it did it would bother me....
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