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Old 10-09-2012, 10:43 AM   #69946
Rusty Rocket
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Originally Posted by TrophyHunter View Post
http://www.atomic-moto.com/boots.html

I usually give Brian at Atomic Moto a look for boots. Some stuff you don't see everywhere. I went with the Gaerne SG-10's for my more adventurous rides and the Gaerne G-Adventure for most of my stuff. I also picked up a brand new pair of A-star "no stop" trials boots from CL at a "I don't really need 'em but I can't pass 'em up" price.

Brian is a vendor on ADV and has outstanding customer service.
I have the AXO Boxer boots that Atomic sells and I couldn't believe what a nice boot it was for the money.
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Old 10-09-2012, 10:45 AM   #69947
Feelers
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Wicked Intiminator Clunk Cause

Quote:
Originally Posted by isaac004 View Post
OK, another update here.

I was trying to avoid just straight up removing them, but I figured it was worth a shot. So today I had a free hour and decided to pull out the Intiminators to see how the fork action is. I did not bother to add more oil (as the oil height dropped), add preload (to keep the same preload I should add around 3/4" extra in PVC pipe, or bump the oil viscosity up (with the Intiminators removed I should go back up to around 10 wt, as Ricor recommended a lower 5 wt). I will do these things later.

The fork action has pretty much returned to normal, in regards to no more excessive binding, easier to compress, and it rebounds back to normal ride height without me having to "pull" it up. There is still a slight amount of stiction, more then my F800GS or WR250R, but hey, it's a low tech DS bike without nice USD forks, so it feels pretty damn good now for what it is.

For now I will just return to a higher viscosity oil and leave the Intiminators out, more or less a stock fork setup.
Hey Isaac!

I love how my intiminators work, so I'm hoping to help you fix yours and experience the goodness!

Because I am a nerd, I did a bunch of research on your intiminator fork clunking. I am pretty positive I know what's causing that clunk, and probably the lack of rebound. Essentially, the intiminator is floating off its seat on top of the damper rod due to pressure overwhelming the spring during the compression stroke and when the downward movement of the fork tube stops, the intiminator gets pushed down by the spring against the damping force until it contacts its seat. Hopefully, that makes sense.

So, how can you correct it?

There are 3 possibilities:

First, and most lame is defective valving inside the intiminator. We'll skip that for now because a replacement is the only solution. I think this is also unlikely.

Second is spring rate. I'm not sure which springs you are using - whether stock or aftermarket, but since the spring rate is sort of being overpowered by the damping rate, it's possible that using stiffer springs might help. Adding more preload to your springs also might help. However, the intiminators are designed to be used with the stock springs I'm pretty sure, so the spring rate should not be the issue. I wouldn't swap springs just as an experiment...

Now for the most likely culprit. I've heard that these intiminators are pretty sensitive to oil viscosity, and they are designed and tuned at the factory using Amsoil 5WT fork fluid. When I installed my intiminators, I was very careful to find the best alternative to the amsoil. WT has almost nothing to do with viscosity.

Oil........................Viscosity @ 40degC................Viscosity @ 100degC............Viscosity Index
Amsoil #5..................5.7........................... ................4.4............................... ..............210
Maxima 5wt..............15.9............................. ............3.5................................... ..........150

Your fork oil will typically be nearer to the 40degC mark, so that is the main number to look at. Your viscosity (resistance to flow) is triple the design viscosity and likely the reason the intiminators are having problems flowing the oil fast enough. Amsoil has an unusually low viscosity somehow.

You can select a better oil from the chart at the bottom of this page:
http://www.peterverdone.com/archive/lowspeed.htm

FWIW, I used Torco RFF 5 with a 40degC viscosity of 10.75 which works well. I bought it because of price/availability, but the damping at high speed is a bit harsh. It's still much better than stock, but the Amsoil #5 would almost certainly be the best.

Feelers screwed with this post 10-09-2012 at 10:47 AM Reason: formatting
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Old 10-09-2012, 10:50 AM   #69948
Ren20
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thanks for the tip. I already bought it. My uncle picked it up. uncle said the bike looks excellent. The seller was very nice as well. I won't be able to see it until the weekend.

Here's the picture.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Adv Grifter View Post
Could be a good deal if that mileage is true. So easy to disconnect ODO.
Sadly, many fudge ODO readings.

Try to find a good mechanic to come with you to check bike out. Have a close listen and nice test ride. Sound can tell you a lot on a DR650. Listen for changes from Cold to Hot. Look at oil, shift through gear box.
Check underside for off road damage (linkage, case, bash plate, underside of swing arm, fork ends ... all can show damage from off road use/abuse)

chances are good its a great deal. Best!
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Old 10-09-2012, 10:58 AM   #69949
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Wanting to get everyone's thoughts on a DR650 I'm looking at buying. The bike is a 2006, single owner, with just over 8000 miles. Has a full FMF setup, TM40 carb, brand new set of 17 supermoto wheels with brand new tires, new Trail Tech vapor, new 520 chain and sprockets (stock gearing), extra fork, dirt wheels (rear hub is trashed), 320mm front rotor, stainless brake lines, and all the stock parts. Bike is real clean and well taken care of. The guys is asking $3000 for it. Thoughts?
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Old 10-09-2012, 11:01 AM   #69950
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mud390 View Post
Wanting to get everyone's thoughts on a DR650 I'm looking at buying. The bike is a 2006, single owner, with just over 8000 miles. Has a full FMF setup, TM40 carb, brand new set of 17 supermoto wheels with brand new tires, new Trail Tech vapor, new 520 chain and sprockets (stock gearing), extra fork, dirt wheels (rear hub is trashed), 320mm front rotor, stainless brake lines, and all the stock parts. Bike is real clean and well taken care of. The guys is asking $3000 for it. Thoughts?
Jump all over it. Assuming you want the supermoto setup (which is awesome), that's every awesome mod you'd want to do besides the big bore kit.
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Old 10-09-2012, 11:18 AM   #69951
isaac004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Feelers View Post
Hey Isaac!

I love how my intiminators work, so I'm hoping to help you fix yours and experience the goodness!

Because I am a nerd, I did a bunch of research on your intiminator fork clunking. I am pretty positive I know what's causing that clunk, and probably the lack of rebound. Essentially, the intiminator is floating off its seat on top of the damper rod due to pressure overwhelming the spring during the compression stroke and when the downward movement of the fork tube stops, the intiminator gets pushed down by the spring against the damping force until it contacts its seat. Hopefully, that makes sense.

So, how can you correct it?

There are 3 possibilities:

First, and most lame is defective valving inside the intiminator. We'll skip that for now because a replacement is the only solution. I think this is also unlikely.

Second is spring rate. I'm not sure which springs you are using - whether stock or aftermarket, but since the spring rate is sort of being overpowered by the damping rate, it's possible that using stiffer springs might help. Adding more preload to your springs also might help. However, the intiminators are designed to be used with the stock springs I'm pretty sure, so the spring rate should not be the issue. I wouldn't swap springs just as an experiment...

Now for the most likely culprit. I've heard that these intiminators are pretty sensitive to oil viscosity, and they are designed and tuned at the factory using Amsoil 5WT fork fluid. When I installed my intiminators, I was very careful to find the best alternative to the amsoil. WT has almost nothing to do with viscosity.

Oil........................Viscosity @ 40degC................Viscosity @ 100degC............Viscosity Index
Amsoil #5..................5.7........................... ................4.4............................... ..............210
Maxima 5wt..............15.9............................. ............3.5................................... ..........150

Your fork oil will typically be nearer to the 40degC mark, so that is the main number to look at. Your viscosity (resistance to flow) is triple the design viscosity and likely the reason the intiminators are having problems flowing the oil fast enough. Amsoil has an unusually low viscosity somehow.

You can select a better oil from the chart at the bottom of this page:
http://www.peterverdone.com/archive/lowspeed.htm

FWIW, I used Torco RFF 5 with a 40degC viscosity of 10.75 which works well. I bought it because of price/availability, but the damping at high speed is a bit harsh. It's still much better than stock, but the Amsoil #5 would almost certainly be the best.
Thanks for all of the tips!

I am using stock springs with some preload...I have not measured it, but I do have to compress the spring about 1 inch to get the fork caps to start engaging the threads.

You make a very good point about the oil, although Amsoil's webpage says the following (http://www.amsoil.com/storefront/stl.aspx):
Kinematic Viscosity @ 100C, cSt (ASTM D-445)
4.4

Kinematic Viscosity @ 40C, cSt (ASTM D-445)
15.7

So to correct your chart, it would read as follows:
Oil........................Viscosity @ 40degC................Viscosity @ 100degC............Viscosity Index
Amsoil #5..................15.7.......................... .................4.4.............................. ...............210
Maxima 5wt..............15.9............................. ............3.5................................... ..........150

When I called the Ricor guys up in Nevada, they said that if Amsoil is not available, Maxima would be a very good alternative. The kinematic viscosities are very similar. Your #3 theory does make sense, although I still think there is some physical binding since the fork does not want to return to normal ride height at all. If the oil was too thick, it should rebound back to normal ride height, just very slowly.

I think the Ricor unit still might be defective. Though I still may also buy some Amsoil #5 fork oil if I can track some down.

Thank you for the insight though, I enjoy the discussion going on here.
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Old 10-09-2012, 12:01 PM   #69952
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He already bought the bike and it looks great in the photos.

Hey for a story I read somewhere -

This guy bought a used motorcycle with very low miles and after buying he said to himself "I really took advantage of that seller, what an astute buyer I am!"

Well he had the bike a few years and really racked up the miles. It was time to sell the bike and he told himself "There are too many miles on this bike to get a good price, I will just turn back the OD so I can get a better deal, what an astute seller I am going to be!"

Well he took apart the speedometer to get at the OD and found a note. The note said "Oh No Not Again".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adv Grifter View Post
Could be a good deal if that mileage is true. So easy to disconnect ODO.
Sadly, many fudge ODO readings.

Try to find a good mechanic to come with you to check bike out. Have a close listen and nice test ride. Sound can tell you a lot on a DR650. Listen for changes from Cold to Hot. Look at oil, shift through gear box.
Check underside for off road damage (linkage, case, bash plate, underside of swing arm, fork ends ... all can show damage from off road use/abuse)

chances are good its a great deal. Best!
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Old 10-09-2012, 12:25 PM   #69953
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Acerbis tank and available fuel to the engine

Wow, I have the Acerbis 5.3 gal tank. Well I just had it trucked home from California using Allied after my 2,600 mile offroad trip out there. Last Friday the truck arrive with all the bikes. I start mine using the ON position of the petcock. She stumbles on idle, I swithc to reserve, she lights up.
I think to myself, I know I had a few gallons in there when I dropped the bike off in Reno wtf ?
I baby it to the Shell 4 miles from my house. She drinks 5.2..something gals !

So Im making 2 points.

1. For the 1st time Allied has drained the gas tanks or the driver was simply stealing it, as they have never done that before and I have used them many times.
2. You can get just about all the usable fuel out of that tank before you'll push.
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Old 10-09-2012, 12:37 PM   #69954
Feelers
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Quote:
Originally Posted by isaac004 View Post
Thanks for all of the tips!


So to correct your chart, it would read as follows:
Oil........................Viscosity @ 40degC................Viscosity @ 100degC............Viscosity Index
Amsoil #5..................15.7.......................... .................4.4.............................. ...............210
Maxima 5wt..............15.9............................. ............3.5................................... ..........150

When I called the Ricor guys up in Nevada, they said that if Amsoil is not available, Maxima would be a very good alternative. The kinematic viscosities are very similar. Your #3 theory does make sense, although I still think there is some physical binding since the fork does not want to return to normal ride height at all. If the oil was too thick, it should rebound back to normal ride height, just very slowly.

I think the Ricor unit still might be defective. Though I still may also buy some Amsoil #5 fork oil if I can track some down.

Thank you for the insight though, I enjoy the discussion going on here.
Hahahaha.....The amsoil publication that I got 5.7 from must have erroneously left off a 1. Nuts! So much for that theory! 15.7 does make a heck of a lot more sense.... Your video does sound exactly like the intiminator is floating above it's seat though.... I guess you should try to poke around at the intiminator and see if any of the passages are blocked or the valves are sticky. Maybe clean it up? Maybe take it apart? Maybe the rebound circuit is blocked or something....
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Old 10-09-2012, 12:38 PM   #69955
procycle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DockingPilot View Post
I know I had a few gallons in there when I dropped the bike off in Reno wtf ?
Check to see that all that gas isn't in the crankcase with the oil.
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Old 10-09-2012, 12:46 PM   #69956
NordieBoy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by isaac004 View Post
OK, another update here.

I was trying to avoid just straight up removing them, but I figured it was worth a shot. So today I had a free hour and decided to pull out the Intiminators to see how the fork action is. I did not bother to add more oil (as the oil height dropped), add preload (to keep the same preload I should add around 3/4" extra in PVC pipe, or bump the oil viscosity up (with the Intiminators removed I should go back up to around 10 wt, as Ricor recommended a lower 5 wt). I will do these things later.

The fork action has pretty much returned to normal, in regards to no more excessive binding, easier to compress, and it rebounds back to normal ride height without me having to "pull" it up.
I'm using 5mm of preload and no problems with stiction or returning to full height.
What spacers were you running?
Ricor recommend running the stock spacers, uncut.

Easier to compress without the Intiminators? It should be, the anti-dive is one of the selling points.
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Old 10-09-2012, 12:54 PM   #69957
DockingPilot
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Quote:
Originally Posted by procycle View Post
Check to see that all that gas isn't in the crankcase with the oil.
No, I had the petcock off of course. I also am certifiable when it come to oil. I check the level constantly and changed it immediately after getting back from the Shell station and warming it up. It was right on the money level wise before I pulled the drain plug.
Magnetic of course.......
My buddies Super Enduro was also drained dry.
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Old 10-09-2012, 12:59 PM   #69958
isaac004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Feelers View Post
Hahahaha.....The amsoil publication that I got 5.7 from must have erroneously left off a 1. Nuts! So much for that theory! 15.7 does make a heck of a lot more sense.... Your video does sound exactly like the intiminator is floating above it's seat though.... I guess you should try to poke around at the intiminator and see if any of the passages are blocked or the valves are sticky. Maybe clean it up? Maybe take it apart? Maybe the rebound circuit is blocked or something....
Yes, I will probably take it apart and try and clean it/inspect it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by NordieBoy View Post
I'm using 5mm of preload and no problems with stiction or returning to full height.
What spacers were you running?
Ricor recommend running the stock spacers, uncut.

Easier to compress without the Intiminators? It should be, the anti-dive is one of the selling points.
I'm running some home made PVC pipe spacers, about 1" tall (or roughly the same height as the fork caps) if I recall correctly from memory.

Easier to compress and rebound now. When I compressed with Intiminators, it clunked and felt stuck at the bottom, requiring some assistance to pull the fork up through its rebound stroke.

I'm thinking it's also possible the finish on the inside of my fork legs is not as precise or the exact diameter as most of the forks out there, which is causing some binding. I read one story about someone purchasing Intiminators for a bike that was not too common, and due to too much variation in the fork tube ID, Ricor said they could not make any off the shelf as they could not get a lock on the dimensions. They would instead require an actual ID measurement to make them.
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Old 10-09-2012, 01:01 PM   #69959
isaac004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DockingPilot View Post
No, I had the petcock off of course. I also am certifiable when it come to oil. I check the level constantly and changed it immediately after getting back from the Shell station and warming it up. It was right on the money level wise before I pulled the drain plug.
Magnetic of course.......
My buddies Super Enduro was also drained dry.
There is a rule that the tank must be less then half full, so maybe they did drain it some...but then just decided to go all the way.
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Old 10-09-2012, 01:10 PM   #69960
Adv Grifter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DockingPilot View Post
2. You can get just about all the usable fuel out of that tank before you'll push.
That is really good to know. My next tank will be the Acerbis!

I wonder if the Acerbis will expand like the IMS does? My so called 4.9 IMS now takes 5.4 gallons once emptied of every drop of fuel ... BUT it can only really use about 4.5 gallons before running out when on reserve. You can tip her over and get a bit more, but that's a last ditch effort, maybe worth 10 to 15 miles further.
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