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Old 11-13-2012, 07:38 AM   #70951
neo1piv014
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Escaped View Post
Just buy a new battery and save yourself a lot of trouble.

Sent from my MB520 using Tapatalk 2
+1. For as cheap as they are to replace, a new battery is a no brainer.
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Old 11-13-2012, 08:59 AM   #70952
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neo1piv014 View Post
+1. For as cheap as they are to replace, a new battery is a no brainer.
I would be normally just replace the battery but........

1. The battery is a Truegel and less than a year old.

2. The battery is holding a charge.

3. The voltage drop when cranking the engine isn't low.

4. It still doesn't explain why there is voltage leakage or why I am not getting over 13 volts when the bike is revving.

Has anyone tried the voltage leak test on their DR650? Is .80 voltes normal??
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Old 11-13-2012, 09:58 AM   #70953
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Eh? DR dieting

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kommando View Post
You can shave some weight if you look around (GSXR muff, HDB mirrors, small LED signals, lighter bars, Trailtech headlight assy, removing un-used brackets, etc.), but you can keep the underseat tank for gimmicky streetbikes and full-on race enduros. I like being able to easily bolt on a simple long-range tank without having to carry extra containers all over the bike or having to sell a kidney. How many other slab-comfortable bikes can carry 400+ miles worth of fuel and still be well under 400lb...for around $500? How strong would a plastic subframe be too, and where could one get it repaired if it busted in BFE?
I agree with you for the most part.
I like the simplicity of air/oil cooling and a carb for traveling outside the US. Or most places off main roads.
Since my traveling is limited to sunny day rides I would be happy to have fuel injection.
It is more complex but the magazine tests lately have been listing a carb as a negative.
On the rare test they might say the bike runs almost as well as one with FI...
I am happy I don't have any bikes that use points and condenser after all.
Even my '71 Triumph will get electronic ignition during the rebuild.

But, if I was designing an updated ADV DR650 I would make many changes.
As JMR posted, a DUAL RANGE tranny would be excellent, instead of a 6 speed, a 5 low and 5 high range!
Steel tube perimeter frame with one shock, no linkage, mounted on the left side of the swingarm/frame for easy access to the shock, lighter weight and with no linkage there is less expense and maintenance. And that opens up a lot of room for the fuel tank. Which is also the:

Removable subframe made of super plastic like the new, uh, Husaberg? Husky? KTM? somebody is doing it.
The fuel tank would be integral with the subframe for max capacity. However, I would also design a steel tube subframe with a separate (but still internal) fuel tank as an option for the hard core adventure travelers. Why not design for many options? Each buyer can set up their bike how they want. And, Suzuki makes the money by designing and building the optional parts. Racks, pannier mounts, GPS, etc.

The advantage of the under seat fuel tank is not a gimmick, it helps tremendously with lowering the cg of the bike and makes the bike feel so much lighter. A well designed underseat fuel tank, with the fuel fill neck going up under the false tank cover to the cap on the top rear of the tank cover could also add another gallon. I "think" it should be easy enough to get at least 5 gallons in an underseat tank that fills the area behind the cylinder, full width of the frame, and from the rear tire clearance up to the seat. With a side mounted shock and no airbox or electrics in that area it is actually quite a lot of space. On my Street Tracker DR I have no airbox or Electrics taking up that area, only the huge shock. That's what got me thinking about a side mounted, no linkage shock opening up room for a low cg fuel tank.

The engine would use a downdraft carb or FI throttle body so the straight shot down from the airbox (above the engine) opens up all the room behind the engine for the fuel tank. I would put all the electrics above the engine under the plastic "gas tank" cover and behind the steering head with a flip open cover for easy access. And install a LiPo battery of course. I would prefer the engine stay as air/oil cooled but with the emissions regs getting harder to meet, it might have to go to liquid cooling eventually. As long as possible I would want to keep it simple and not liquified.

I would use conventional forks, but with modern cartridge damping and dual adjusters.

Spoke wheels designed for tubeless tires too.

Lower seat height! with height adjust-ability.
Adjustable height foot pegs too.

.
.
.
.



Ahhhhhh, how I love to imagineer!

I would bet that if Suzuki asked 500 of us to describe the perfect DR they would come up with many similarities but 500 different bikes.

Simplify and add lightness is the old Colin Chapman motto, it still holds true for me.

Now back to our regularly scheduled discussion of carb tuning and oil preference.
And tire choices....
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Old 11-13-2012, 10:05 AM   #70954
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The new 2013 DR 650 is now on Suzuki's web site. It looks like it has an all new cartridge fork or the same misprint as last year...which ever way you want to look at it.

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Old 11-13-2012, 10:09 AM   #70955
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I'm just dying to see the new color.
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Old 11-13-2012, 10:20 AM   #70956
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It's a new grey grey finish that appears to be darker at night.

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Old 11-13-2012, 10:21 AM   #70957
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"The bike has exceptional handling with technically advanced front forks." Heh...
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Old 11-13-2012, 10:32 AM   #70958
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ntm1973 View Post
Stator test: 80+ volts accross all three wires on a/c scale, doesn't seem to be a problem.
What is the exact resistance through the stator windings and from each stator lead to ground?

Regards,

Derek
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Old 11-13-2012, 11:39 AM   #70959
Adv Grifter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gryphon12 View Post
Weight dry, without oil, gas, or battery = 324 lbs. Older publications and brochures always quoted "dry" weight; some included battery (rarely) and fork oil (50/50).

Weight wet, full tank, ready to ride = 366 lbs. Trend since the early 2000's is to quote "curb" weight, but some mfgs still only use 1/2 tank of fuel, or no fuel but battery and all other fluids.

Consistency is tough. MontessaVR's thread is the most consistent accumulation for DS, Enduro and some Trials bikes that I have found - and I've been accumulating the numbers for over 10 years. Even so, I continue to find errors and update my data.
Good points!
So called "Curb weight" seems to be the latest term used. Don't think it goes back as far as 2000, least I never saw it way back then. Seems I've only seen this new term since around 2007 or so?

Curb weight, in fact, is a just another BS way to confuse and cover. It's inconsistent and inaccurate in many cases. As mentioned, sometimes tank is full, sometimes just a gallon of fuel. Sometimes no fuel.

I trust owner weights more. (if proper scale is used)

But its correct that OEM's listed dry weights typically are without fuel, oil, batt and who knows what else.

A basic DR650, according to MCN (USA), who actually do weigh bikes, claim the aforementioned figure, around 367 lbs. WET.
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Old 11-13-2012, 12:13 PM   #70960
Adv Grifter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JagLite View Post
Actually model years for pre '96 DR's varied among themselves too.
Take a look at Zen Seeker's DR 650 History (scroll about half way down)
http://dr650.zenseeker.net/DR650History.htm
Keep in mind the weights are Suzuki DRY weight

So the New model '96 through present are a good bit lighter than the pre '96 bikes
Still, would be nice to lose a bunch more weight.
Under seat fuel tank, removable plastic subframe, better suspension quality...
The salient point is not so much the weight difference ... but the fact the '96 was essentially A WHOLE NEW BIKE! Funnily enough, the new '96 had a bit LESS HP than the old model. One reason: single carb vs. twin carb.

But the new Air/Oil cooled motor (using SACS system) was way far superior than previous bike. Next you can go to frame, suspension, CDI and more. ALL better ... and the handling is better on the '96.

As far as an "all new" DR650 ... be careful what you wish for.
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Old 11-13-2012, 12:22 PM   #70961
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JagLite View Post
I agree with you for the most part.
I like the simplicity of air/oil cooling and a carb for traveling outside the US. Or most places off main roads.
Since my traveling is limited to sunny day rides I would be happy to have fuel injection.
It is more complex but the magazine tests lately have been listing a carb as a negative.
On the rare test they might say the bike runs almost as well as one with FI...
I am happy I don't have any bikes that use points and condenser after all.
Even my '71 Triumph will get electronic ignition during the rebuild.

But, if I was designing an updated ADV DR650 I would make many changes.
As JMR posted, a DUAL RANGE tranny would be excellent, instead of a 6 speed, a 5 low and 5 high range!
Steel tube perimeter frame with one shock, no linkage, mounted on the left side of the swingarm/frame for easy access to the shock, lighter weight and with no linkage there is less expense and maintenance. And that opens up a lot of room for the fuel tank. Which is also the:

Removable subframe made of super plastic like the new, uh, Husaberg? Husky? KTM? somebody is doing it.
The fuel tank would be integral with the subframe for max capacity. However, I would also design a steel tube subframe with a separate (but still internal) fuel tank as an option for the hard core adventure travelers. Why not design for many options? Each buyer can set up their bike how they want. And, Suzuki makes the money by designing and building the optional parts. Racks, pannier mounts, GPS, etc.

The advantage of the under seat fuel tank is not a gimmick, it helps tremendously with lowering the cg of the bike and makes the bike feel so much lighter. A well designed underseat fuel tank, with the fuel fill neck going up under the false tank cover to the cap on the top rear of the tank cover could also add another gallon. I "think" it should be easy enough to get at least 5 gallons in an underseat tank that fills the area behind the cylinder, full width of the frame, and from the rear tire clearance up to the seat. With a side mounted shock and no airbox or electrics in that area it is actually quite a lot of space. On my Street Tracker DR I have no airbox or Electrics taking up that area, only the huge shock. That's what got me thinking about a side mounted, no linkage shock opening up room for a low cg fuel tank.

The engine would use a downdraft carb or FI throttle body so the straight shot down from the airbox (above the engine) opens up all the room behind the engine for the fuel tank. I would put all the electrics above the engine under the plastic "gas tank" cover and behind the steering head with a flip open cover for easy access. And install a LiPo battery of course. I would prefer the engine stay as air/oil cooled but with the emissions regs getting harder to meet, it might have to go to liquid cooling eventually. As long as possible I would want to keep it simple and not liquified.

I would use conventional forks, but with modern cartridge damping and dual adjusters.

Spoke wheels designed for tubeless tires too.

Lower seat height! with height adjust-ability.
Adjustable height foot pegs too.

.
.
.
.



Ahhhhhh, how I love to imagineer!

I would bet that if Suzuki asked 500 of us to describe the perfect DR they would come up with many similarities but 500 different bikes.

Simplify and add lightness is the old Colin Chapman motto, it still holds true for me.

Now back to our regularly scheduled discussion of carb tuning and oil preference.
And tire choices....

Lot of good ideas there.
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Old 11-13-2012, 12:22 PM   #70962
neo1piv014
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From the 2013 DR650 Features page on Suzuki's website:
"A comfortable seat, die-cast aluminum footpegs, and grab bars allow a passenger rider a satisfying ride."

Maybe that was the big change for this year.

I also saw the forks one somebody mentioned:
"Innovative cartridge front forks combine the best features of conventional and inverted designs, providing smooth and progressive action."

Then again, they still list the color for the Busa Limited Edition as Sonoma Candy Red, while the picture is bright yellow and black, so they're definitely not strangers to typos. Still, if they did give the suspension a work out, it'd be cool to see what difference it makes.

Regarding fuel injection on these bikes, there was a fellow on YouTube that mounted up a FI kit to his DR650. The company he bought it from basically did these pre-made FI kits for bikes based on engine size. The one he got was for 500-800cc engines (if I remember correctly) and was selling for not much more than the pumper carb goes for. He was having to do a bit of work to get everything lined up and fitted properly, but he had it completely tuned via a laptop that plugged right into it, and it was running like a champ. I have no idea how reliable it would be or how durable the unit itself is, but the company he bought it from was using his bike as a test rig to design an actual full kit for the DR650 instead of a generic 500-800cc system. If anyone remembers the name of the company, it'd be neat to see how they're coming along. They also did a similar kit specifically for the Ninja 250 that received a lot of praise.

EDIT: here's the youtube page I was talking about:
http://www.youtube.com/user/RCThirty
Apparently, the company is called Ecotrons and it's a 400-800cc kit.
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neo1piv014 screwed with this post 11-13-2012 at 12:24 PM Reason: Added site
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Old 11-13-2012, 12:24 PM   #70963
Tech23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adv Grifter View Post
The salient point is not so much the weight difference ... but the fact the '96 was essentially A WHOLE NEW BIKE! Funnily enough, the new '96 had a bit LESS HP than the old model. One reason: single carb vs. twin carb.

But the new Air/Oil cooled motor (using SACS system) was way far superior than previous bike. Next you can go to frame, suspension, CDI and more. ALL better ... and the handling is better on the '96.

As far as an "all new" DR650 ... be careful what you wish for.
I can't speak for everyone but I wouldn't care how many ounces a set of fully adjustable cartridge forks and a twin clicker rear shock added.

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Old 11-13-2012, 12:26 PM   #70964
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adv Grifter View Post
One reason: single carb vs. twin carb.
Twin carb?
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Old 11-13-2012, 12:53 PM   #70965
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tech23 View Post
I can't speak for everyone but I wouldn't care how many ounces a set of fully adjustable cartridge forks and a twin clicker rear shock added.

Tech23
I agree ... and those are the type of upgrades Suzuki could achieve without a major redesign and only adding slightly to MSRP.

Give me the latest "big piston" Shock or KYB's PSF (pneumatic spring pressure) forks or Showa's SFF (separate function fork). These are the future ... and Ohlins is even further ahead.

But in my comment, I was thinking more of what a total re-design could mean. Things like underseat fuel tanks and eliminating shock linkage ... if not done carefully ... well, they could end up throwing the Baby out with the Bathwater!

Under seat tanks create as many problems as they solve. I've ridden MANY bikes with underseat tanks (G650, X Chal, KTM 690, F800GS) and only the KTM really felt like it handled well or better than my DR650.

And as mentioned by Kommando, the costs of Aux tanks and placement can be problematic. Unless the DR650 motor can get 55 to 60 mpg ... then carrying lots of fuel is still required for most serious ADV touring duty.

Plastic subframes may be a no go for anyone doing ADV riding and carrying a serious load. We're just not there yet, IMO. BMW rear sub frames are notorious for cracking and breaking ... and yet their bikes are 60 lbs. heavier than the simple DR650. The KTM 690's do not make it easy to carry 100 lbs. of gear either.
Be careful what you wish for!

I would be willing to entertain the possibility of a Linkage-Less system as it does save weight and cost. But even KTM have gone back to Linkage rear suspension on their top Moto Cross bikes.

Now why is that?

Look at the shock linkage on the latest BMW SS1000 HP-4. Look familiar? I'm guessing they paid Suzuki a licensing fee to use this design ... as the Japanese OWN all the design patents for most every linkage ever thought up. BMW have avoided modern linkage ... since forever.

The BMW item looks very much like a Suzuki product. See latest Cycle World write up on the HP-4, written by E Boz (Eric Bostrum). Amazing bike, by the sound of it.

But the Japanese are having some success with new linkage-less designs:
Versys, Ninja 650. Aprilia has dabbled here too. But most of that is about COST SAVINGS.
Linkage just flat works. Moto crossers (and later road racers) figured that out back on the early 70's. Anyone in current Moto GP without Linkage? How about WSB?
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