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Old 11-13-2012, 09:19 PM   #70981
Kommando
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TRAVELGUY View Post
I have done the Suzuki option lowering and installed a low seat on mine . Still wish it was a inch or more lower. I'm generally traveling heavy loaded and need stable footing.

TravelGuy
No lowering links and slid forks yet?
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Old 11-13-2012, 11:49 PM   #70982
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Originally Posted by Albie View Post
So long as you don't mind paying $8K for it then.
I never buy new anyway. It's no cheaper to add it later. There are many that say to upgrade the suspension first before doing performance upgrades. I'd rather pay for a factory twin clicker than an aftermarket upgraded single clicker without enough adjustment. I'm pretty sure the DRZ 250's 41mm cartridge forks with compression and rebound damping adjusters would slip right into the DR's triple tree's. All Suzuki would have to do is valve and spring the forks for the DR. The same goes for the fully adjustable DRZ 250's rear shock too. Probably wouldn't require a major redesign of the bike to do it either.

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Old 11-14-2012, 12:10 AM   #70983
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Have thought about doing that but not for a few months.

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Originally Posted by Kommando View Post
No lowering links and slid forks yet?
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Old 11-14-2012, 12:30 AM   #70984
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neo1piv014 View Post
Regarding fuel injection on these bikes, there was a fellow on YouTube that mounted up a FI kit to his DR650.
EDIT: here's the youtube page I was talking about:
http://www.youtube.com/user/RCThirty
Apparently, the company is called Ecotrons and it's a 400-800cc kit.
mxrob's video of his homebrew FI...
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Old 11-14-2012, 12:32 AM   #70985
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How low can you go????????

Quote:
Originally Posted by TRAVELGUY View Post
I have done the Suzuki option lowering and installed a low seat on mine . Still wish it was a inch or more lower. I'm generally traveling heavy loaded and need stable footing.

TravelGuy
Hello,

Well a lot of people have given me advice and comments on me being vertically inept! Thanks, read them all!!
I am 5' 8 and 7/8" tall but my weight is PERFECT if I was 6'11'.
2009 dr with the factory lowering done and forks up 3/4". then lower gel seat. Bought Corbin off inmate but to tall-wide,
may or may not sell. Put 8.3 spring on as I am loaded, bike too. Bought 1" lowering links from ProCycle, no difference until lowered forks more at there request. 1-1/8" up now. Can sit flat footed, same as my tw200. Went on a 100 mile ride this weekend 40 dirt and felt great, except,Yes, it is very low for ROCKS. Other than watching out for pointed big rocks it is much better for me as knees are shot and can't stand up on pegs to long. Much, much better in traffic also. Rode down Ortega Hwy, SoCal, twisties and felt like I was on SM flying. Looks a little different as the IMS looks more like a Safari.
Will leave it like this but if going over rocks for long periods will probably raise forks some as it only takes a couple of minutes. Have a 13 tooth on the front and it did nice 2nd gear wheelies but lowered not so good.

Thanks again,

Heirhead
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Old 11-14-2012, 03:10 AM   #70986
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The whole Econtrons FI thing started here
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=725795
MXrob had his FI microsquirt thing going already but also tried this system.
At this point I had hoped a true plug and play FI system would be available for the DR but alas it is not.

Matt at Ecotrons helped a ton but for some reason he's not heading to the last step and creating true PnP systems from his biz??? He did for the the Ninja 250 but that's it. Not sure 100% why as his kits are only for install/fabricator pros and thus this marginalizes his biz vrs selling a bolt on system and thus much wider acceptance.

The guys at DRriders have done a ton, but the momentum has also stalled their. It's sorta like Matt just said here ya go, this is what I have but figure it all out and then get back to me. Not really the way to bring a product to market...as it's not.

I'm bummed and will eventually buy someone elses FI 650 thumper (i'm convinced of the technology and still have hope for the 660 Tenere or maybe Suzuki will update or possibly Kawi or Honda). For now my BST carb is working well enough.

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnkol View Post
Long thread on DRriders about the Ecotrons EFI module, which was developed with help from members there, and which is now a commercial product.
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Old 11-14-2012, 06:56 AM   #70987
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eakins View Post
I'm bummed and will eventually buy someone elses FI 650 thumper (i'm convinced of the technology and still have hope for the 660 Tenere or maybe Suzuki will update or possibly Kawi or Honda). For now my BST carb is working well enough.
Suzuki could do it pretty easy in my opinion. They already have been running a big fuel injected single in their King Quad for several years. Unfortunately it is water cooled, so I am not sure that is the motor I would want to see on a DR upgrade.
But the injection system seems pretty rock solid and I would think easily modified and programed for an air cooled engine.
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Old 11-14-2012, 07:03 AM   #70988
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eakins View Post
The whole Econtrons FI thing started here
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=725795
MXrob had his FI microsquirt thing going already but also tried this system.
At this point I had hoped a true plug and play FI system would be available for the DR but alas it is not.

Matt at Ecotrons helped a ton but for some reason he's not heading to the last step and creating true PnP systems from his biz??? He did for the the Ninja 250 but that's it. Not sure 100% why as his kits are only for install/fabricator pros and thus this marginalizes his biz vrs selling a bolt on system and thus much wider acceptance.

The guys at DRriders have done a ton, but the momentum has also stalled their. It's sorta like Matt just said here ya go, this is what I have but figure it all out and then get back to me. Not really the way to bring a product to market...as it's not.

I'm bummed and will eventually buy someone elses FI 650 thumper (i'm convinced of the technology and still have hope for the 660 Tenere or maybe Suzuki will update or possibly Kawi or Honda). For now my BST carb is working well enough.

That's what it looked like to me as well. The RCThirty guy that was doing the Ecotrons kit on his bike still seems to be doing tuning work with his, and he's made some pretty rad power/mileage gains, but if it's something that I have to take to a machine shop just to get parts fabricated, then I know it's something I'm not going to be doing. I don't mind tearing the bike apart to install parts, but that's a whole different beast. I honestly just want the FI because I use my DR650 more like a street bike than an off-road bike. With that in mind, I'll probably just save up and buy a dedicated street bike and just let the DR stay offroad.
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Old 11-14-2012, 07:13 AM   #70989
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Originally Posted by Tech23 View Post
I never buy new anyway. It's no cheaper to add it later. There are many that say to upgrade the suspension first before doing performance upgrades. I'd rather pay for a factory twin clicker than an aftermarket upgraded single clicker without enough adjustment. I'm pretty sure the DRZ 250's 41mm cartridge forks with compression and rebound damping adjusters would slip right into the DR's triple tree's. All Suzuki would have to do is valve and spring the forks for the DR. The same goes for the fully adjustable DRZ 250's rear shock too. Probably wouldn't require a major redesign of the bike to do it either.

Tech23
Just looking at the number of people that made huge improvements to their suspension by swapping over DRZ400 parts, it's not like Suzuki would have to do a lot of R&D work to improve the DR650 in a major way. Hell, the community has already done most of the R&D for them. I mean, they could just go and do a bulk buy on 790cc pistons and release the DR650 as a DR790 instead. At factory prices, that wouldn't be much of a price jump, and thanks to the community, they know their base engine can handle it. I'd also be curious to see how much a TM40 costs at factory prices vs. the BST40 they're putting in now. I mean, the pumper is $450, but I bet buying the stock carb from the factory isn't far from it either.
They'd basically just have to take the battle proven mods that everyone's doing already and make that standard on the machine. I bet most people would be willing to pay another $1000 for a new bike to have it setup like that from the factory.
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Old 11-14-2012, 07:15 AM   #70990
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Emmbeedee View Post
The CCM 644 used the DR650 engine, apparently.

I like the dualsport version of the CCM better.

Have a look at this page of exotic D/S bikes from the past. (the CCM in D/S config is there) Be sure to go all the way to the bottom of the page and read the caption on that picture if you go here:

http://ridedualsport.com/forum/index.php?topic=577.0
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Old 11-14-2012, 10:43 AM   #70991
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neo1piv014 View Post
I'd also be curious to see how much a TM40 costs at factory prices vs. the BST40 they're putting in now. I mean, the pumper is $450, but I bet buying the stock carb from the factory isn't far from it either.
Unfortunately, the TM40 would never meet federal emissions standards.
If emissions weren't in the equation the DR never would have had a CV carb in the first place.
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Old 11-14-2012, 10:58 AM   #70992
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eakins View Post
The whole Econtrons FI thing started here
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=725795
MXrob had his FI microsquirt thing going already but also tried this system.
At this point I had hoped a true plug and play FI system would be available for the DR but alas it is not.

Matt at Ecotrons helped a ton but for some reason he's not heading to the last step and creating true PnP systems from his biz??? He did for the the Ninja 250 but that's it. Not sure 100% why as his kits are only for install/fabricator pros and thus this marginalizes his biz vrs selling a bolt on system and thus much wider acceptance.

The guys at DRriders have done a ton, but the momentum has also stalled their. It's sorta like Matt just said here ya go, this is what I have but figure it all out and then get back to me. Not really the way to bring a product to market...as it's not.

I'm bummed and will eventually buy someone elses FI 650 thumper (i'm convinced of the technology and still have hope for the 660 Tenere or maybe Suzuki will update or possibly Kawi or Honda). For now my BST carb is working well enough.
Making a carbureted anything into fuel injected isn’t as easy as it sounds. We build custom fuel injection for some of our high HP blown boats. It is a pain in the ass!

Basically, we buy a blank fuel injection unit that can handle 4-10 cylinders. We buy our processors from a company that builds them for trick airplanes (like Red Bull racing planes). We run an open loop system only because on boats there are water cooled exhaust and A/F meters don’t read correctly when they are being constantly cooled. Also, gas mileage isn’t an issue with a boat!

We build our own wire harnesses, injection rails, plumb all fuel lines, then we have to build a fuel map from scratch on the dyno. Can take up to a week. Obviously, if you build another motor EXACTLY the same you can use the same map. But, most times even if you are rebuilding an engine something is going to change. Then you have to tweak the fuel map to respond.

This is one of our 1200HP boat engines. We try hard to hide wires, but there is a loom about 2 inches in diameter with wires running off the back of the engine then back forward to the processor.

The issues that I see with a DR are: finding places for all the sensors, finding room for a processor with a wire loom, having a fuel pump, regulator and return lines. Making a throttle body with 1 or 2 injectors and a fuel rail.

Like many have found on here: no two DRs seem to require the same carb settings. The same would hold true for the fuel injection. Therefore it would have to be user adjustable. And it would be hard to adjust without an Eddy Brake dyno or something similar. Unlike a car you can’t ride down the road looking at a laptop.

Could it be done. Yes, but someone making an aftermarket version would require a lot of time spent which would drive the price up. Then you can only hope they are using quality components. Even having done FI for V8 engines- I wouldn’t even try to tackle the DR.

Like someone else said: if Suzuki made it I doubt the price difference would be much. It isn’t like this would be their first FI bike! I think their sport bikes have been FI since 1999 so they should have an understanding by now! I personally would love to see the DR fuel injected. I have owned other fuel injected bikes and have NEVER had an issue with them.
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Old 11-14-2012, 11:33 AM   #70993
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[QUOTE=Mongle;20042582]And it would be hard to adjust without an Eddy Brake dyno or something similar. Unlike a car you can
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Old 11-14-2012, 11:39 AM   #70994
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I don't doubt building FI systems from scrtach, like for that boat, is alot of work but Econtrons has done most of the correct part sourcing in 1 package (say 95% of the job).

What is needed is the finished adapters and brackets to bolt it all together vrs making them yourself. It's that last 5% that keeps this from being accepted.

As for FI tunes, the the system can be programed at a baseline and it ships that way. It might even be offered 2 ways, stock muffler & after-market. That will probably work for most and you can load other tunes if you want to tweak.

My point is Matt has done 95% of the work but it's that last 5% that keeps him from selling any to the DR crowd.
I don't get that? If i had figured out 95% of something, I sure would push/pay to get that last 5% done so i could start selling some of these kits. He has a willing and waiting market with $ to spend. PC would pick it up for sure, but for now we buy TM40 carbs if we want better.

Like i said I'm bummed at this point there is not a kit to buy. When i posted that FI question way back when I actually did not expect to see a company offering something. It was more a future oriented question, not a wow it's here now. Then when Ecotrons was shown to me and Matt was willing to try and make it work, I thought OK this is going to happen. Now fast forward to it being 5% incomplete and looking like it never will be, yeah that's tough seeing something right in front of you that you quite reach.

At this point in the waiting game, if one of the Japanese 3 (no 660 tenere in the US) did release a modern FI 650 thumper, i'd just start going down that path of owning a FI Japanese 650 (I like the Huskies but prefer Japanese tech). Waiting for Yamaha has gotten old as is hoping this system will be available for our DRs. I'd really to see Honda use that new 500X twin in an offroad suspension bike (ie USD forks, spoked wheels, rerouted exhaust). http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=840842
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eakins screwed with this post 11-14-2012 at 11:53 AM
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Old 11-14-2012, 12:05 PM   #70995
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As with any project- The last 5% is always the hardest!

I looked at Ecotrons 400-800cc kit.

That kit looks like they are close... They need to get away from the closed loop system for bikes.
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