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Old 11-15-2012, 09:16 AM   #71086
Adv Grifter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnkol View Post
The fundamental flaw of the DR is its frame, which is uncontrollably flexible.

By "flexible" I mean large amplitude oscillation modes, and by "uncontrollable" I mean no targeted damping of said oscillations; that makes the DR frame a fundamentally flawed design -- the "fundamental" part being that there is no solution for it.

If you don't feel the flexes in the frame, or if they don't bother you, (or if you don't even know what I'm talking about), then more power to you: you can enjoy motorcycling on a cheap, and very reliable bike; this is my loss, because in order to enjoy biking I'll need to spend a lot more money and be content with a less reliable machine.
Could you be confusing "frame flex" with "fork flex"? The 43mm front forks on the DR650 can flex, most noticeably under hard braking. The simple fix is a fork brace and maybe a steering damper.

I'm sure there is some frame flex, but I doubt the 37 HP motor is going to get you into a situation where you'd notice much flex. Going with Super Moto front 17" wheel with stock forks will flex even more ... so up grades needed to run that set up.

No, the DR is not as quick as my former KTM's (Duke ll and Duke SM 640)
but overall its more fun and relaxing to ride ... not to mention it's pretty good off road and makes a very good ADV travel bike.

If the DR650 is the worst bike you've owned ... then what bike was the best? What other bikes do you own now? If you're not feeling "at one" with your DR then maybe you've got some set up problems?
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Old 11-15-2012, 09:42 AM   #71087
planemanx15
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Tubeless spoked rims

While waiting for my rear rim to be laced from Warp 9, I decided to convert my front to tubeless. My DR is a street bike, it hasnt seen off road since all the good spots around my area were marked illegal .

I used the Seal-All, goop method. To seal the rim lock holes, I made a patch with some JB weld, in the shape of a mushroom, and fitted it in the hole, let it cure, then seal-all and goop over it.

Some pics:






Finally got the bead on, with some soap and ratchet straps:





Hard to see, but this is water testing in the kitchen sink. no bubbles at all!



Last night it held 36 PSI for a few hours, and this morning i checked it and it was 34. Could be the gauge, maybe from checking so often. The temperture remained the same. I'll see later today, but overall, I'm very happy with the results.
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Old 11-15-2012, 09:45 AM   #71088
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Quote:
Originally Posted by opium89 View Post
Hi,

I am getting ready to do a case replacement on a 99 model next week. Can someone tell me what special tools I am going to need? I believe I am going to need at a minimum a flywheel/clutch puller and the puller to separate the case halves.

For this that have done a complete tear-down and rebuild, what have you needed? FYI, not looking for shortcuts, I don't mind buying the tools I am going to need. Also, what glues and chemicals have you found to be useful?

Any info greatly appreciated, thanks!
This might help:
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=772770
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Old 11-15-2012, 10:10 AM   #71089
lamotovita
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Quote:
Originally Posted by planemanx15 View Post
While waiting for my rear rim to be laced from Warp 9, I decided to convert my front to tubeless. My DR is a street bike, it hasnt seen off road since all the good spots around my area were marked illegal .

I used the Seal-All, goop method. To seal the rim lock holes, I made a patch with some JB weld, in the shape of a mushroom, and fitted it in the hole, let it cure, then seal-all and goop over it.

Some pics:






Finally got the bead on, with some soap and ratchet straps:





Hard to see, but this is water testing in the kitchen sink. no bubbles at all!



Last night it held 36 PSI for a few hours, and this morning i checked it and it was 34. Could be the gauge, maybe from checking so often. The temperture remained the same. I'll see later today, but overall, I'm very happy with the results.
I realize that this is too late for you but it might be of interest to someone reading your post.
Since you were lacing new rims on anyway you could probaly have laced on some "safety bead" rims that are designed to work with tubeless tires. You would still need to seal the rim though.
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Old 11-15-2012, 10:21 AM   #71090
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I am thinking of a DR, have been for a few years. With out reading the whole tread, what are the best years to own and the worst years. I have heard something about 05 and down to stay away from because some have gear problems.

I love my KLR's, great bikes. I have owned a XR650L also, but never owned a DR650, much less even rode one.

I would like to switch mainly because of the simplisity of the DR650, air/oil cooled. Screw and lock nut valve adjustments.
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Old 11-15-2012, 10:39 AM   #71091
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eakins View Post
so i see that people say the Ecotrons kit is now truely a PnP yet
i still wonder why Procycle says they could not even get their bike to run right?
It sounds like they've fixed a lot of the physical fitment issues with the kit but if they say this:

"Note: for DR650, we are still optimizing the close loop fuel. This motor does not like 14.7 AFR in many cases."

then it's not really PnP yet. For most users on this forum, switching between different tuning maps to find the one that works for you should be a very simple process. Getting the tuners to make those maps optimized for the engine is the part that will be out of most people's comfort zone. And if you aren't able to run in closed loop then you aren't getting the benefits that will allow you to run at various altitudes and temperatures in a way that maximizes mpg and power.

I work for a tiny company that makes hardware for reflashing car computers and we also write software for tuners working on Subaru and Mitsubishi, but we very carefully stay away from the tuning. Too much customer support at
that end of the equation :)
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Old 11-15-2012, 11:01 AM   #71092
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Multisurface Rider View Post
I am thinking of a DR, have been for a few years. With out reading the whole tread, what are the best years to own and the worst years. I have heard something about 05 and down to stay away from because some have gear problems.

I love my KLR's, great bikes. I have owned a XR650L also, but never owned a DR650, much less even rode one.

I would like to switch mainly because of the simplisity of the DR650, air/oil cooled. Screw and lock nut valve adjustments.

I have a 98, probably the "worst" year since I replaced the starter clutch. Older models have a greater potential for a leaky base gasket but has never been an issue on mine and I have wrung it pretty hardd. Seems a lot of people slop some sealer on that for an easy fix. The trans thing seems rare and to me not worth considering. Buy what looks well maintained and maybe with a few farkles but to me year isn't a big deal.
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Old 11-15-2012, 11:01 AM   #71093
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Multisurface Rider View Post
I am thinking of a DR, have been for a few years. With out reading the whole tread, what are the best years to own and the worst years. I have heard something about 05 and down to stay away from because some have gear problems.

I love my KLR's, great bikes. I have owned a XR650L also, but never owned a DR650, much less even rode one.

I would like to switch mainly because of the simplisity of the DR650, air/oil cooled. Screw and lock nut valve adjustments.
Do you not own the XR650L any more? From what I understand, those bikes are basically 1st cousins to the DR650, but with an 18" rear instead of 17" rear. I believe 2003 was the year they switched away from paper base gaskets. If possible, get one made after that year, or you'll be doing something about an oil leak down the line. If at all possible, find one that has an aftermarket seat and fuel tank on it. The stock fuel tank is a <100 mile tank, which is less than ideal, and the stock seat is almost universally despised. Other than that, it's hard to go wrong.
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Old 11-15-2012, 11:16 AM   #71094
Ridin'nFishin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neo1piv014 View Post
Do you not own the XR650L any more? From what I understand, those bikes are basically 1st cousins to the DR650, but with an 18" rear instead of 17" rear. I believe 2003 was the year they switched away from paper base gaskets. If possible, get one made after that year, or you'll be doing something about an oil leak down the line. If at all possible, find one that has an aftermarket seat and fuel tank on it. The stock fuel tank is a <100 mile tank, which is less than ideal, and the stock seat is almost universally despised. Other than that, it's hard to go wrong.

Thanks for the replys, keep them coming.

No, I don't own a XR650L any more. I would rather the DR because of the oil spray on the bottom of the cylinder to help keep it cool and seat height is lower. Seat height is really not a problem with me.

I personally think the XR, DR and KLR are all good bikes.
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Old 11-15-2012, 11:24 AM   #71095
sandwash
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neo1piv014 View Post
Do you not own the XR650L any more? From what I understand, those bikes are basically 1st cousins to the DR650, but with an 18" rear instead of 17" rear. I believe 2003 was the year they switched away from paper base gaskets. If possible, get one made after that year, or you'll be doing something about an oil leak down the line. If at all possible, find one that has an aftermarket seat and fuel tank on it. The stock fuel tank is a <100 mile tank, which is less than ideal, and the stock seat is almost universally despised. Other than that, it's hard to go wrong.
Stay away from this model(s) unless it has been fixed:

Issues that affect the 98 and part of the 99 DR650SE year models:
"No starter clutch torque limiter- "1998 and early '99 were equipped with a solid idler gear in the starter reduction gear set that created a problem when the engine kicked back during shutdown, breaking out the gear bearing bosses. This also breaks out and destroys the left case half due to its rigid design. The case halves always come in matched pairs and cost in excess of $650US not to mention labor charges to change all internal parts into new cases. This should not be taken lightly. '96 and '97 had the torque limiter gear that is designed to slip due to a preloaded slip clutch arrangement. [Suzuki] went back to this design in mid '99 after vin # X2100561 so if your Vin # predates this you should consider installing this updated item shown above." -quoted from the Keintech website.
Suzuki, just like any other business, looks for ways to save money. Some engineer had a money saving idea that he convinced his boss to go with. The result is grenaded engines with center case breaking destruction with the correct chain of events during shutdown. It's not a reason not to buy a 98 or 99 before S/N X2100561 but you have to make the investment in the torque limiter for around $165US and make that part of the overall cost of the bike when considering these models."
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Old 11-15-2012, 11:38 AM   #71096
Adv Grifter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neo1piv014 View Post
Do you not own the XR650L any more? From what I understand, those bikes are basically 1st cousins to the DR650, but with an 18" rear instead of 17" rear. I believe 2003 was the year they switched away from paper base gaskets. If possible, get one made after that year, or you'll be doing something about an oil leak down the line. If at all possible, find one that has an aftermarket seat and fuel tank on it. The stock fuel tank is a <100 mile tank, which is less than ideal, and the stock seat is almost universally despised. Other than that, it's hard to go wrong.
The Honda XR650L is quite a different bike to the DR650. But like the DR650, it's an "old" design ... not upgraded since it's introduction in around '92 or '93, IIRC. So that makes it about 5 years "older" than the DR, which was new from the ground up in '96. The XR-L was simply a modified NX or XR. I bought a brand new XR-L in 1993, and many friends bought them too. These bikes had their own problems but in some ways were better than the DR650 ... in other ways ... not so much.

The stock XR650L suspension is better than the DR650 off road ... but still needs fiddling to be "good".
The rear sub frame of the XR650L is notorious for cracking or breaking. Been there, seen it happen.

The left side Battery Box on the XR650L is also a poor idea. It can also break off, tearing wires for major components in the process. Seen it happen.

I never could ride my XR650L very well, handling was "odd" to me, top heavy and harsh. The Honda is also about 37" tall ... one of the tallest dual sports out there.
I do far better on my DR650, which is a natural flat tracker and, IMHO, more predictable both ON and OFF road.

BUT ... with effort the Honda can be set up to work quite well. Like the DR, certain things are lacking.

But perhaps the biggest Black Mark on the otherwise reliable Honda is the Engine HEAT. The Radial valve head gets very hot. There is no external oil cooler and no SACS (oil/air cooling system) like on the DR650.

XR-L's run very very hot. Most don't fail but tops ends will need attention on most that see serious off road duty. Oil is very critical on the Honda. Don't ask me how I know this. (PS: never use Mexican oil in Baja!)

Some Honda owners fit an oil cooler, brace rear sub frame and upgrade suspension. Now you've got a rugged dual sport that will last ... and it's almost as good as an upgraded DR650!

Both good bikes ... but very different in many ways.
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Old 11-15-2012, 11:40 AM   #71097
MikeyP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barko1 View Post
Buy what looks well maintained and maybe with a few farkles but to me year isn't a big deal.
That's what I did in purchasing my 96. I have friends that purchased newer DR650s with more miles and less modifications for more $, but I wanted the extras mine came with, plus the better bargain. Other than some light corrosion here and there I think mine is just as good as theirs. No regrets on purchasing the older bike.
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Old 11-15-2012, 12:39 PM   #71098
Albie
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Multisurface Rider View Post
Thanks for the replys, keep them coming.

No, I don't own a XR650L any more. I would rather the DR because of the oil spray on the bottom of the cylinder to help keep it cool and seat height is lower. Seat height is really not a problem with me.

I personally think the XR, DR and KLR are all good bikes.
Heck Calvin, you should pick one up and play around with it. They're cheap and easy to find. I've managed to put 7K miles on mine since I picked it up in Feb.
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Old 11-15-2012, 12:40 PM   #71099
doug s.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeyP View Post
It sounds like they've fixed a lot of the physical fitment issues with the kit but if they say this:

"Note: for DR650, we are still optimizing the close loop fuel. This motor does not like 14.7 AFR in many cases."

then it's not really PnP yet. For most users on this forum, switching between different tuning maps to find the one that works for you should be a very simple process. Getting the tuners to make those maps optimized for the engine is the part that will be out of most people's comfort zone. And if you aren't able to run in closed loop then you aren't getting the benefits that will allow you to run at various altitudes and temperatures in a way that maximizes mpg and power.

I work for a tiny company that makes hardware for reflashing car computers and we also write software for tuners working on Subaru and Mitsubishi, but we very carefully stay away from the tuning. Too much customer support at
that end of the equation :)
based on the email exchange i had w/matt at ecotron, i suspect this is a non-issue and that the website needs updating. i am sure anyone seriously interested could find out. matt was wery responsive to my questions...

doug s.
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Old 11-15-2012, 12:53 PM   #71100
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Originally Posted by MikeyP View Post
That's what I did in purchasing my 96. I have friends that purchased newer DR650s with more miles and less modifications for more $, but I wanted the extras mine came with, plus the better bargain. Other than some light corrosion here and there I think mine is just as good as theirs. No regrets on purchasing the older bike.
I hear ya on and older bike, my KLR is a 92 and I have it rigged and ready to go.
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