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Old 12-16-2012, 04:50 PM   #71896
opium89
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Starter Gurus?

Well, bike's still not running and I believe the starter is now a gone'r. Symptoms: Fully charged battery, key on, ignition switch engaged, starter will barely turn if at all and the battery goes to complete drainage while the ignition switch is engaged.

I did drop voltage tests on all the wiring from the battery in the starter circuit including the starter itself...all seems to check out. Removed the starter this evening and took it apart, only to find some very clean and unworn looking starter guts. Put it back together and tried bench testing it with a battery and a couple of wires. All it will do is arc and spark, no spinage. I mean, there's no much to it, and it all appears to be in order. This inmate is baffled.
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Old 12-16-2012, 04:57 PM   #71897
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lamotovita View Post
Why? The forks are going to be connected by the axle and will move up and down synchronously.
If that were the case, Fork Braces would never had been invented.

I think he has a good point there when he suggested making sure they're close to even in an attempt to do whatever we can to make a better-handling bike. Redneck riders won't agree to it, but then they tend to be the ones adjusting the preload to get a change out of rate.
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Old 12-16-2012, 05:23 PM   #71898
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mambo Dave View Post
If that were the case, Fork Braces would never had been invented.

I think he has a good point there when he suggested making sure they're close to even in an attempt to do whatever we can to make a better-handling bike. Redneck riders won't agree to it, but then they tend to be the ones adjusting the preload to get a change out of rate.

I have a set of .42 kg/mm Moto-Pro fork springs in my KLX250S.... just a tad too soft so I called up Moto-Pro to order a pair of .44 kg/mm fork springs. Moto-Pro suggested that if I find the .44's too harsh I could use a .42 in one fork, and a .44 in the other to end up with a .43 kg/mm spring rate.
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Old 12-16-2012, 05:26 PM   #71899
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lamotovita View Post
Why? The forks are going to be connected by the axle and will move up and down synchronously.
Modern axles have become better, but the front axle is unfortunately still not infinitely stiff.

Regards,

Derek
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Old 12-16-2012, 05:36 PM   #71900
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So you're not a fan of the latest SFF (Single Function Forks) MX forks as fitted to the latest KXs and RMZs?



Admittedly these have bigger (stiffer and stronger) axles than a DR, but small differences in oil levels and spring rates in a DR fork will not make a difference to the perceived or actual performance. Theoretically yes, in practice, no. In fact I doubt any pair of springs would measure the EXACT same rate due to manufacturing tolerances.
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Old 12-16-2012, 05:42 PM   #71901
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I've seen examples of different internals in fork legs in mountain bike forks, but they have a fork brace.

I have to think that either, for normal motorcycles (which includes the DR650 since it isn't stellar in the suspension department), all those people who claim the fork braces they added really aren't doing anything to improve the handling and wind characteristics of their bikes, or that there is something to it, and thus balance in fork springs for forks without an additional brace is a good idea. So either I'm not understanding what a fork brace actually does to less-than-stellar forks, or tons of riders have been scammed by unscrupulous fork-brace manufacturers.
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Old 12-16-2012, 05:49 PM   #71902
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Fork braces don't just assist the axle to keep the sliders working up and down together, they also reduce fork twist generated under brakes that you get with a single disc. The DR forks are faily flexxy and this is a particularly noticable improvement that you get with stiffer USDs. When thay flex, they also bind a bit, so their bump absorption is not as good when loaded as a stronger fork is.
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Old 12-16-2012, 05:51 PM   #71903
Rob.G
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vfr870 View Post
I have a set of .42 kg/mm Moto-Pro fork springs in my KLX250S.... just a tad too soft so I called up Moto-Pro to order a pair of .44 kg/mm fork springs. Moto-Pro suggested that if I find the .44's too harsh I could use a .42 in one fork, and a .44 in the other to end up with a .43 kg/mm spring rate.
I put .48's in my KLX250S and love them. I thought .42's were the stock ones. Now I need more rear spring too. 'Course I need to do both ends of my DR650, so it's next in line.

Rob
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Old 12-16-2012, 05:52 PM   #71904
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BergDonk View Post
Fork braces don't just assist the axle to keep the sliders working up and down together, they also reduce fork twist generated under brakes that you get with a single disc. The DR forks are faily flexxy and this is a particularly noticable improvement that you get with stiffer USDs. When thay flex, they also bind a bit, so their bump absorption is not as good when loaded as a stronger fork is.
Good point.

So perhaps somehow that is what makes the bikes work better in the wind than slider-synchronization? I guess it's plausible.
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Old 12-16-2012, 06:31 PM   #71905
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Originally Posted by Mambo Dave View Post
I've seen examples of different internals in fork legs in mountain bike forks, but they have a fork brace.
Yep, but the forks on my mountain bike would cost more a grand to replace.
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Old 12-16-2012, 07:20 PM   #71906
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BergDonk View Post
So you're not a fan of the latest SFF (Single Function Forks) MX forks as fitted to the latest KXs and RMZs?



Admittedly these have bigger (stiffer and stronger) axles than a DR, but small differences in oil levels and spring rates in a DR fork will not make a difference to the perceived or actual performance. Theoretically yes, in practice, no. In fact I doubt any pair of springs would measure the EXACT same rate due to manufacturing tolerances.
No, I'm not a fan, however see http://www.advrider.com/forums/showp...ostcount=72041.

Regards,

Derek
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Old 12-16-2012, 08:05 PM   #71907
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mambo Dave View Post
If that were the case, Fork Braces would never had been invented.

I think he has a good point there when he suggested making sure they're close to even in an attempt to do whatever we can to make a better-handling bike. Redneck riders won't agree to it, but then they tend to be the ones adjusting the preload to get a change out of rate.
Redneck?





As opposed to just buying stiffer springs that come with some kind of warranty and a spec'd rate, instead of permanently cutting/sanding the stockers and hoping for the best?



'Too funny.
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Old 12-16-2012, 08:29 PM   #71908
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Originally Posted by Kommando View Post
Redneck?





As opposed to just buying stiffer springs that come with some kind of warranty and a spec'd rate, instead of permanently cutting/sanding the stockers and hoping for the best?



'Too funny.
Well, it wasn't meant as an insult.

I've bought aftermarket springs before, and I saw exactly what I was getting - they, too, were pretty much the same wire diameter, but substantially shorter. I felt like an idiot for not chopping the original springs after that considering that bike cost me less then $1000.

If was building up a track bike or something then, sure, I'd go for aftermarket springs again. For the DR650 I'm going to go with cutting them (at least once) equally, and adjusting pre-load to where it should be. With me skipping the part of doing an actual calculation of weights this bike will see, plus my weight, the guesstimation of cut springs will bring me just about the same chance of getting it 'right' as if I were to buy a known spring rate for a bike I really haven't ever fully loaded yet, and don't know the weight for anyhow.

I'm still holding that preload adjusts preload, and that's best reserved as a setting unto itself.
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Old 12-16-2012, 08:37 PM   #71909
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I was under the impression (possibly mistakenly) that fork braces cut out some of the side to side flex when cornering, too. I don't have them on the DR, but sure seemed different when cornering on the Strom. I could be a victim of my own imagination and marketing.
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Old 12-16-2012, 08:55 PM   #71910
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Originally Posted by Kommando View Post
Redneck?





As opposed to just buying stiffer springs that come with some kind of warranty and a spec'd rate, instead of permanently cutting/sanding the stockers and hoping for the best?



'Too funny.
Springs can be cut and rate targets hit quite precisely. It's not hard to figure out how much of an increase in rate each coil (or fraction thereof) will be worth. As mentioned before, you can also measure the rate as you go. On bikes with little or no aftermarket support, or if you just need a rate that isn't being manufactured, it's the only choice you have available.

Regards,

Derek
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