ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Bikes > Thumpers
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 01-04-2013, 11:59 PM   #72496
Adv Grifter
on the road o'dreams
 
Adv Grifter's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2010
Location: Passing ADV Stalkers in California
Oddometer: 6,128
Quote:
Originally Posted by shu View Post
I frequently ride in cold temps (as long as the roads are dry). Recently I set a new record for myself.

When it's in the 30's and 40's *F, I find it takes the DR (w/ stock BST carb) about 3-4 minutes warming up in the driveway and another 6-8 minutes of easy running on the road to fully warm up and run smoothly.

In the 20's it takes a bit longer and really runs pretty rough at lower rpms for 10-15 minutes. In the low 20's I usually velcro a piece of cardboard in front of the oil cooler screen guard to block some of the direct air flow.

A few days ago, I rode out at midday when the temps were in the 30's and stayed out longer than I expected. When I started home from Denver in the dark it was about 20* and by the time I got to my house in the mountains it was just 3*. Brrrrrrrrr.

I found the DR with the cardboard wind blocker in place would run ok at mid rpms but it never really warmed up at all and when I pulled away from stop signs, etc. I really had to give it a lot of gas and slip the clutch to keep it running.

Questions:

1.How bad was that ride for my motor? (Synthetic 10 W 40)

2. Is this cold running problem typical for a carbureted motor?

3. Should I velcro the cardboard directly touching the oil radiator itself instead of leaving the air space between the guard and the radiator open?

4. As the day warms up, at what temp do you think I should be wary of using anything to block the cooler?

5. How would I know if the bike was overheating due to blocking off the cooler?

All opinions welcome.

Thanks......................shu
That's some serious Butt Tough Cold riding! I wimp out in the 40's!
By the 20's I beg for mercy! My biggest worry is black ice. I've only hit it once ... made it through ... barely.

Would going richer on jetting help here? Maybe go rich on needle clip and turn out fuel-air screw? Or leave enricher (choke) on?

Don't know much regards covering the oil cooler but I doubt any damage would be done if you left it covered ... even into the 60's. The engine is still AIR COOLED and the fins do a lot of cooling regardless of the cooler.

I like you're idea of a good warm up when it's super cold. Let those parts warm up before putting a load on them. Syn oil is the way. Perfect for the cold. 10-40 should be OK.

Coldest I've ever ridden in (on motorcycles) is 10F. Nearly died! I had to get from N. Utah down through North rim of Grand Canyon, then South from there were it finally warmed up a bit. I was FROZEN solid.

Of course I rode snow mobiles in the Antarctic at minus 40F! Hardest part?
getting the fricken thing started! That was our record cold for the Winter in that part of the Banana belt of the Antarctic.
Adv Grifter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2013, 12:03 AM   #72497
ER70S-2
Beastly Adventurer
 
ER70S-2's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2009
Location: SE Denver-ish
Oddometer: 5,926
205'b Grifter

Quote:
Originally Posted by shu View Post
All opinions welcome.
Alrighty then, here's mine.......................
Disclaimer: my career was sitting at a desk.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shu View Post
i frequently ride in cold temps (as long as the roads are dry). Recently i set a new record for myself.
Records are awesome, I chased and hit my all time summer high: 15,000 miles (start 28,400 - end 43,400).

Quote:
Originally Posted by shu View Post
when it's in the 30's and 40's *f, i find it takes the dr (w/ stock bst carb) about 3-4 minutes warming up in the driveway and another 6-8 minutes of easy running on the road to fully warm up and run smoothly.

In the 20's it takes a bit longer and really runs pretty rough at lower rpms for 10-15 minutes. In the low 20's i usually velcro a piece of cardboard in front of the oil cooler screen guard to block some of the direct air flow.

A few days ago, i rode out at midday when the temps were in the 30's and stayed out longer than i expected. When i started home from denver in the dark it was about 20* and by the time i got to my house in the mountains it was just 3*. Brrrrrrrrr.
I found the dr with the cardboard wind blocker in place would run ok at mid rpms but it never really warmed up at all and when i pulled away from stop signs, etc. I really had to give it a lot of gas and slip the clutch to keep it running.
When you're experiencing these colder temps (<50*), I'm home watching TV, where I belong. However; if I were knutz like you, I'd get a good oil temp gauge and block airflow until I got the temp up, at least 200*. This would include fastening something to the frame down-tube (like a wide reverse fender blocking the cylinder). Yep, that's what I'd do.

Another note, once inna while I forget to turn off my choke. I'll end up 20 miles from the house and wonder why the bike runs like crap at a light or stop sign. Hmmmmmm About that time the light will go on; I'll look down and sure enough I left the choke on. My point is, the bike will run fine with the choke on, it's only noticeable at idle; when the bike is giving you cold temperature fits, put the choke on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shu View Post
Questions:
1.how bad was that ride for my motor? (synthetic 10 w 40)
Your motor didn't even notice.

Short hot oil opinion: I run full synthetic too. After a few thousand miles (20,000?), I quit thinking about my oil temps. Currently, I feel that my ankles will melt before the DR is compromised by heat. And that's the reason that I run full synthetic. If the Zuki engineers are ok with dino oil (in the manual), I'm ok with anything + full synthetic.

Oops, back to the question:
Cold oil comment: The recent spat of CSS seals unseating themselves has me wondering. The reports say that it's most likely that they'll pop loose right at start-up, so it may be an oil pressure issue; I run 15w-50 so this could affect me directly. Procycle has recently marketed a CSS seal retainer, cheap insurance. www.Procycle.US

Quote:
Originally Posted by shu View Post
2. Is this cold running problem typical for a carbureted motor?
Yes. Once FI is perfected for each motorcycle application, like today's cars, this issue won't exist. IMO But at this time I prefer carbs. If my bike quits somewhere, there would be a 5% chance that I could fix/figure out FI.

Random thought: moisture in the oil (condensation is present most of the time, physics); water turns to steam at 212*, at which time the water is cooked out of the oil. Temps below 212* implies that there is still moisture in the oil/crankase. So just because the moisture turns to steam, how does it get out of the crankcase? The answer: when your bike is running, remove the oil fill cap; you'll feel each time the piston travels down in the cylinder; it displaces a lot of air each time. With the oil cap in place, that same pulse is traveling thru the crankcase vent, displacing most of the crankcase volume within a few minutes. When my oil temps are under 200*, I'm starting to get uncomfortable. No, I don't quit and go home, but I don't care to do that on a regular basis. My oil temp is in the oil pressure port, bottom center of the motor.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shu View Post
3. Should i velcro the cardboard directly touching the oil radiator itself instead of leaving the air space between the guard and the radiator open?
The only way to know this accurately, is to have an oil temp gauge. Looking at mine, there is about 5/8" behind the radiator shield. I'd tie the cardboard to the shield, behind it.

This is what I have because it's what was available 'back then' (but pricey)..



Quote:
Originally Posted by shu View Post
4. As the day warms up, at what temp do you think i should be wary of using anything to block the cooler?
For me, the oil temp would decide this. I've seen 275* oil temp on a slow, hot summer ride (up Mt. Herman Rd). 275* is a long way under a full synthetic's 'comfort zone'. Watch NASCAR, they're using a full syn, so I'm ok with 'whatever'.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shu View Post
5. How would i know if the bike was overheating due to blocking off the cooler?
Yer boots will melt................... synthetics rock.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shu View Post
Thanks......................shu
I lost a little continuity in my reply, it's midnight.
__________________
2004 DR650: 62,400 miles
2013 WR250R

SUZUKI DR650SE INFORMATION INDEX
Quote:
Originally Posted by Threewheelbonnie View Post
"BTW, I don't do style. It's a dirt bike, not some girlie dress-up thing." -
ER70S-2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2013, 12:12 AM   #72498
Adv Grifter
on the road o'dreams
 
Adv Grifter's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2010
Location: Passing ADV Stalkers in California
Oddometer: 6,128
Quote:
Originally Posted by VooDooDaddy View Post
Not to burst your pretend bubble, but just exactly how/where would a person find "warranty" service in the Bolivian Altoplano? Or just about anywhere in Central America or South America.

Not to mention the thousands of dollars saved in not buying new will fund months of actual riding for me in South America. To each his own, and I realize not everyone has mechanical abilities, experience, tools, or a place to work on their bikes, but I would never buy a new Japanese bike simply for a warranty.
Well there are Suzuki dealers throughout Latin America ... but they are not that common and mostly only ever in capital cities ... and I'm not even sure if a USA American Suzuki warranty would even be valid out of USA or Canada. Anyone know for sure?

If the warranty IS valid ... and you could find a Suzuki dealer that sells DR650's, then you might be OK.

But generally speaking that ain't happening. Although there are Police forces now using the DR in Ecuador and I think Colombia. Suzuki do well with their Outboard motors down there, so one may find Suzuki Marine dealer. No idea if any could help out.

If Suzuki DID cover but the dealer did not carry DR650's ... well you may be in for quite a wait on parts ... like weeks. But things are looking up as Suzuki, and the DR650, make more inroads into S. America.


Suzuki Freewind in Ecuador (based on DR650)
Adv Grifter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2013, 12:36 AM   #72499
canoli
human
 
canoli's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2008
Location: Not from round these parts.
Oddometer: 1,641
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adv Grifter View Post
Well there are Suzuki dealers throughout Latin America ... but they are not that common and mostly only ever in capital cities ... and I'm not even sure if a USA American Suzuki warranty would even be valid out of USA or Canada. Anyone know for sure?
FWIW I was told flat out by my authorized dealer that when the bike left the USA ( I was heading to SE Asia) , an extended warranty from Suzuki would no longer be valid. Found out that there are no authorized Suzuki DR 650 mechanics in Thailand. Was able to track down factory trained/ authorized techs for a Hayabusa..but not a DR650.

Canoli

canoli screwed with this post 01-05-2013 at 12:42 AM
canoli is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2013, 07:52 AM   #72500
bross
Where we riding to?
 
bross's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2005
Location: Osoyoos, BC
Oddometer: 4,499
Quote:
Originally Posted by shu View Post

Questions:

1.How bad was that ride for my motor? (Synthetic 10 W 40)

2. Is this cold running problem typical for a carbureted motor?

3. Should I velcro the cardboard directly touching the oil radiator itself instead of leaving the air space between the guard and the radiator open?

4. As the day warms up, at what temp do you think I should be wary of using anything to block the cooler?

5. How would I know if the bike was overheating due to blocking off the cooler?

All opinions welcome.

Thanks......................shu
If you're regularly running those temps I'd switch to a 0W40 weight oil. That's what I run in my quad that I use for a snow plow in the winter. I use Amsoil full synthetic and it looks just like a 10W40 even in minus 20 temps. Good cold flow properties and quad starts easily.
bross is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2013, 08:13 AM   #72501
Rusty Rocket
Life behind "Bars"
 
Rusty Rocket's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2005
Location: Trying to leave CT
Oddometer: 8,854
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adv Grifter View Post
in the Antarctic at minus 40F
You mean -40C also
__________________
on one side the sign it said "Private Road", but on the other side it didn't say nothin'
2009 DR650
..1972 Penton Six-Days ..1971 Suzuki TS185.. 2005 KTM 400exc
Member of: AMA, NETRA, Blue Ribbon Coalition, CCCofVT, Berkshire TR, CT Ramblers
Rusty Rocket is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2013, 08:23 AM   #72502
Sierra Thumper
Studly Adventurer
 
Joined: Oct 2012
Oddometer: 641
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adv Grifter View Post
That's some serious Butt Tough Cold riding! I wimp out in the 40's!
By the 20's I beg for mercy! My biggest worry is black ice. I've only hit it once ... made it through ... barely.

Would going richer on jetting help here? Maybe go rich on needle clip and turn out fuel-air screw? Or leave enricher (choke) on?

Don't know much regards covering the oil cooler but I doubt any damage would be done if you left it covered ... even into the 60's. The engine is still AIR COOLED and the fins do a lot of cooling regardless of the cooler.

I like you're idea of a good warm up when it's super cold. Let those parts warm up before putting a load on them. Syn oil is the way. Perfect for the cold. 10-40 should be OK.

Coldest I've ever ridden in (on motorcycles) is 10F. Nearly died! I had to get from N. Utah down through North rim of Grand Canyon, then South from there were it finally warmed up a bit. I was FROZEN solid.

Of course I rode snow mobiles in the Antarctic at minus 40F! Hardest part?
getting the fricken thing started! That was our record cold for the Winter in that part of the Banana belt of the Antarctic.
When I was a youngster my bikes were my only form of transportation.....I once literally got hypothermia on a long night ride in sub-freezing weather. I couldn't make it home, had to stop at a friends house to try and warm up, ended up staying there for a day till I was good enough to hit the road again. The bike was one of my 2 stroke street bikes, I think it was my Suzuki GT185 twin....it ran awesome in the cold.......me, not so much I got my first car soon after that........

I haven't been much of a real cold weather rider since
__________________
"Don't get so concerned with the slab that you choose a turd for the dirt"- The Gospel as spoken by itrack
Sierra Thumper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2013, 09:19 AM   #72503
sunthechip
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Joined: May 2012
Oddometer: 123
Hi guys,

I need help. My DR has been slow to start up. It usually starts on the 1st or 2nd crank, and now it takes 10+ cranks, and once the engine gets going it starts from a whimper and takes some time before it starts to rev at the normal ilde speed.

Here are the circumstances:

-Recently I changed to a Shorai Lithium battery.
-I swapped the old standard spark plugs for a set of Iridium CR10EIX plugs.
-I store the bike outside.
-It has been cold lately; yesterday the high was 43F and the low was 34F, and there was light rain.
-I have been using Startron Enzyme fuel treatment.
-The engine starts almost instantly after the bike has been warmed up.
-It seems as though there is a lot of white vapor coming out of the exhaust on startup, and it dissapears after I have been riding for a while ( this was yesterday, so it might have been the cold and high humidity).
-It may just be my imagination, but the exhaust has a weird smell to it now- almost like burnt rubber/plastic.
-I adjusted the valves not too long ago (2-3k mi. back), and I did it by the book.
-Sometimes I run the hand warmers and the high beam (brighter bulb) at the same time.

Thats about all I can think of.

Also:
-The time for an oil change and air filter clean is due soon. (Mostly street riding)

sunthechip screwed with this post 01-05-2013 at 09:29 AM
sunthechip is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2013, 10:18 AM   #72504
PPCLI-Jim
Gnarly Adventurer
 
PPCLI-Jim's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2012
Location: Victoria BC where I ride year round.
Oddometer: 221
shut off the warmers about 10 min before the bike gets shut off. that should make a difference. that way the battery gets all the wattage to fully top it up before it gets shut down .



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_if_muk2ok

I ride year round to but its warmer here .
__________________
I'm not saying to kill all the stupid people . .. Just remove the warning labels and let nature run it's course


http://www.youtube.com/user/spudhead/videos?view=0 my youtube channel

PPCLI-Jim screwed with this post 01-05-2013 at 10:25 AM
PPCLI-Jim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2013, 10:51 AM   #72505
shu
...
 
Joined: Feb 2010
Location: Colorado
Oddometer: 992
Quote:
Originally Posted by eakins View Post
holy hell, my DR is parked in the garage waiting for 50 degree days.
you're a trooper. it was 40 today in FC.

Yeah, I have Hippo Hands, 3 layers of gloves, electric vest and lots of layers top and bottom. I stay pretty comfortable down into the 20's; below that my rides are usually no more than an hour before I look for some hot coffee.

i'd leave that card board on till it goes above 50 and ride away.
I think that's what I'll do. I'll probably arrange it so it blocks even more air below 30*.

thanks.......shu
shu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2013, 11:10 AM   #72506
shu
...
 
Joined: Feb 2010
Location: Colorado
Oddometer: 992
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adv Grifter View Post
By the 20's I beg for mercy! My biggest worry is black ice. I've only hit it once ... made it through ... barely.

That's the beauty of Colorado riding. The humidity is so low we rarely have any black ice forming. We have to watch out for shady spots where the previous days snow melt froze overnight, but usually once the roads are melted off and dry they're good to ride no matter how cold.

Would going richer on jetting help here? Maybe go rich on needle clip and turn out fuel-air screw? Or leave enricher (choke) on?

I thought about that. Cold air = denser, more oxygen per unit volume? so more oxygen with the same amount of fuel metered through the carb = leaner mixture? Do I have that right?

I thought about putting my choke back on but with 3 layers of gloves I couldn't find the carb mounted choke under my IMS tank- and I wasn't going to stop and pull off my gloves to find it either.

Don't know much regards covering the oil cooler but I doubt any damage would be done if you left it covered ... even into the 60's. The engine is still AIR COOLED and the fins do a lot of cooling regardless of the cooler.

I like you're idea of a good warm up when it's super cold. Let those parts warm up before putting a load on them. Syn oil is the way. Perfect for the cold. 10-40 should be OK.

Coldest I've ever ridden in (on motorcycles) is 10F. Nearly died! I had to get from N. Utah down through North rim of Grand Canyon, then South from there were it finally warmed up a bit. I was FROZEN solid.

That's a long ride at those temps. A lot different from just going across town. I did a similar ride when I bought my F800 ST (BMW) in Salt Lake City a few years ago. It was the beginning of December and I rode it home to Denver. Parts of that ride I was in survival mode, continuously wiggling fingers and toes and moving around on the seat.

Of course I rode snow mobiles in the Antarctic at minus 40F! Hardest part?
getting the fricken thing started! That was our record cold for the Winter in that part of the Banana belt of the Antarctic.
.............shu
shu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2013, 11:14 AM   #72507
Mongle
Knuckle dragger
 
Mongle's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2009
Location: North Carolina Y'all
Oddometer: 2,632
Quote:
Originally Posted by VooDooDaddy View Post
To each his own, and I realize not everyone has mechanical abilities, experience, tools, or a place to work on their bikes, but I would never buy a new Japanese bike simply for a warranty.



Arent we pretentious.
Mongle is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2013, 11:23 AM   #72508
Kommando
Grumpy Young Man
 
Kommando's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2006
Location: Spacecoaster FL
Oddometer: 7,079
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunthechip View Post
Hi guys,

I need help. My DR has been slow to start up. It usually starts on the 1st or 2nd crank, and now it takes 10+ cranks, and once the engine gets going it starts from a whimper and takes some time before it starts to rev at the normal ilde speed.

Here are the circumstances:

-Recently I changed to a Shorai Lithium battery.
-I swapped the old standard spark plugs for a set of Iridium CR10EIX plugs.
-I store the bike outside.
-It has been cold lately; yesterday the high was 43F and the low was 34F, and there was light rain.
-I have been using Startron Enzyme fuel treatment.
-The engine starts almost instantly after the bike has been warmed up.
-It seems as though there is a lot of white vapor coming out of the exhaust on startup, and it dissapears after I have been riding for a while ( this was yesterday, so it might have been the cold and high humidity).
-It may just be my imagination, but the exhaust has a weird smell to it now- almost like burnt rubber/plastic.
-I adjusted the valves not too long ago (2-3k mi. back), and I did it by the book.
-Sometimes I run the hand warmers and the high beam (brighter bulb) at the same time.

Thats about all I can think of.

Also:
-The time for an oil change and air filter clean is due soon. (Mostly street riding)
What jetting do you have? Is your choke (enrichener) working properly? Do you let your battery warm up?
Kommando is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2013, 11:35 AM   #72509
Kommando
Grumpy Young Man
 
Kommando's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2006
Location: Spacecoaster FL
Oddometer: 7,079
Quote:
Originally Posted by shu View Post
I found the DR with the cardboard wind blocker in place would run ok at mid rpms but it never really warmed up at all and when I pulled away from stop signs, etc. I really had to give it a lot of gas and slip the clutch to keep it running.
What THROTTLE POSITION was the issue at? You may want to enrich your jetting a little. Adjust your idle-mix screw, and tinker with your enrichener (choke). In colder weather, the air is more dense, so the bike runs lean if you don't adjust the fuel side of things to richen it up. My carbed bikes start fine in cooler weather, but they stay on the "choke" longer.

Quote:
Questions:

1.How bad was that ride for my motor? (Synthetic 10 W 40) Shouldn't be bad at all. That's not really that cold for an engine.

2. Is this cold running problem typical for a carbureted motor? No. It's typical for a motor with incorrect air:fuel ratio and/or weak spark.

3. Should I velcro the cardboard directly touching the oil radiator itself instead of leaving the air space between the guard and the radiator open? Can you do that easily without any chance of damaging fins on the cooler? Bypass the cooler completely, if you like.

4. As the day warms up, at what temp do you think I should be wary of using anything to block the cooler? The bike will run fine on a hot summer day with the oil-cooler bypassed. I wouldn't worry about it.

5. How would I know if the bike was overheating due to blocking off the cooler? You would be courting heatstroke, or something else would be wrong with the bike. The oil-cooler on these bikes is a protective redundancy for when slogging along on slow trails or in slow traffic, in the dead heat of the summer. In most other conditions, the bike runs fine without it, and it may even run fine for quite some time in the above-mentioned conditions. It has enough air-cooling capacity to run as a strictly air-cooled bike. It isn't like a liquid-cooled vehicle that NEEDS a radiator to not overheat.

Kommando screwed with this post 01-05-2013 at 11:42 AM
Kommando is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2013, 11:46 AM   #72510
shu
...
 
Joined: Feb 2010
Location: Colorado
Oddometer: 992
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunthechip View Post
Hi guys,

I need help. My DR has been slow to start up. It usually starts on the 1st or 2nd crank, and now it takes 10+ cranks, and once the engine gets going it starts from a whimper and takes some time before it starts to rev at the normal ilde speed.


This sounds normal to me for 30* cold start ups. My bike lives outside under a cover. I usually put it into 4th gear and push it 3 or 4 engine revolutions to loosen the clutch plates before I crank it. Then gas on, choke on, put it back in neutral and crank it 3-4 seconds with no throttle. I don't expect it start up at that point. Shut offf the key, wait 5-10 seconds, and crank it again usually same results. Shut off the key, wait again, and this time I'm ready on the throttle with just a little twisting to keep it going when it catches. It's not too tricky, really.

At first the bike will idle slowly but will keep running. After a minute or two the idle will come up.



-It seems as though there is a lot of white vapor coming out of the exhaust on startup, and it dissapears after I have been riding for a while ( this was yesterday, so it might have been the cold and high humidity).

-It may just be my imagination, but the exhaust has a weird smell to it now- almost like burnt rubber/plastic.

I get the vapor as well. Not so much when it first starts but after a couple of minutes of running on the 'choke'. The smell I get is more unburned gasoline from the rich mixture when it's on the enrichener. It goes away when I start riding.

-Sometimes I run the hand warmers and the high beam (brighter bulb) at the same time.

Shouldn't be a problem. I run High beam and an electric vest all the time when it's cold. I do keep the bike on a Battery Tender Jr. when I park it.





................shu
shu is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 09:37 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014