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Old 01-08-2013, 12:51 PM   #72601
Adv Grifter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GSF1200S View Post
I have noticed that with my TM40, just like the BST, I do have to mess with the idle speed adjustment a bit. Ill start on full choke, runs fine. Starts to stumble, half choke. Starts to stumble, off choke. Then, the RPMs want to drop to 1-1.2k which is too slow, so I turn the idle speed up to about 1500. Once the engine gets thoroughly warmed up, it ends up idling at 1.8k rpms, so I back it off down to 1.5k again. The BST and my new TM40 do this, but I havent had a chance to properly set the idle yet (mixture screws). When is it best for me to try and get the mix set absolutely right? Its further complicated by the fact its now in the 50s here, so im pretty sure the DR never really warms up. I have been changing the oil very frequently as its been in a bunch of dirt (and because im in a humid climate so I want to be very careful about condensation building up in the oil), but I think I need to get some kind of oil cooler block setup for the cold temperatures.

Ive read mention of using a cut down welders glove, and ive of course considered metal plates to cover parts of the fins to allow the DR to warm up. What do you think about any/all of the above? It seems to run perfectly jetted straight from ProCycle, while of course I will need to tweak the idle speed- I dont get lean surge, stumble on sudden WOT, or anything- so, im sure my idle woes are all due part to adjustment and part to temperature..
If, on Full Choke, your bike is stumbling within 30 seconds or so ... then, IMHO, your Pilot Jet is TOO RICH. Go to a leaner Pilot jet. (just one number leaner) This will mean you can stay on full choke longer. Your bike should not begin stumbling on full choke, even after a minute of running. The 50's is NOT cold by most standards for Winter. (lucky bastard! )

Re-adjusting idle up and down is fairly normal procedure. On colder mornings here in Nor Cal, it will be high 30's or low 40's. Once off choke (about a minute or so) I turn up idle just a bit. But takes about 20 minutes of riding before I turn idle back down.

Your Fuel Screw setting can also have an affect on this. For Winter, a slightly Richer setting may help for start up. I have a stock BST ... so a different character than your TM40. But still, You could fine tune the fuel screw, leaning it back out after fully warmed up.

The good news is we are lucky to have a few adjustments to hand to help smooth things out in cold weather. In the 50's I would never cover your Oil Cooler. Just let things warm for a couple minutes, then ride sedately for first 5 minutes. Bike will get plenty warm in 20 minutes.
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Old 01-08-2013, 01:01 PM   #72602
Adv Grifter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TRAVELGUY View Post


DR's resting inn Copper Canyon area Mexico. These bikes like to travel.

TravelGuy
Are you in Copper Canyon now? Gets frosty there eh? I was in a full white out blizzard there, March, 1998 ... we started the day in Sunny 75F temps in Batopilas. By the time we reached junction at main road ... it was a White Out. We took refuge in the little road house there. In two days things cleared up and we continued South. I asked the locals ... "?Es este tiempo normal para Marzo? " ... oh si, normal". who knew?
We forget that Creel is at 8000 ft. ... and that it's still part of the deadly Sierra (Sierra Tarahumaru) chain.

Stay Warm, Stay safe!
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Old 01-08-2013, 02:40 PM   #72603
garnaro
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Originally Posted by neo1piv014 View Post
Just so long as you put it back together right. After talking to a couple different people, I still don't exactly understand how to set the float height.
I was confused about this too after reading the BST bible (http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=347184) and the Suzuki manual. I think that we sorted it out in this discussion:
http://drriders.com/topic6542-30.html
Please correct if any of this is wrong.

BST bible way - no measurement, just make the seam in the middle of the float and the float bowl sealing surface parallel when the carb is part way inverted (when the float needle assembly just makes contact with its seat):



Suzuki manual way - invert carb all the way and use calipers and measure 14.7 mm from the bottom most part of the float to the float bowl sealing surface:

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Old 01-08-2013, 02:54 PM   #72604
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adv Grifter View Post
If, on Full Choke, your bike is stumbling within 30 seconds or so ... then, IMHO, your Pilot Jet is TOO RICH. Go to a leaner Pilot jet. (just one number leaner) This will mean you can stay on full choke longer. Your bike should not begin stumbling on full choke, even after a minute of running.
Technically, BST40 carbs use a cold start enrichment circuit instead of a choke. A choke is closed when an engine is cold and opened when it is warm, whereas a fuel enrichment circuit is opened when the engine is cold and closed when it is warm. A choke works by restricting the air flow, whereas an enrichment circuit works by adding extra fuel. A choke requires a fast idle cam or something akin to it (or you have to hold the throttle open manually), whereas an enrichment circuit adds a little extra air simultaneously with the extra fuel, so the fast idle is already built in.

The pilot jet size should be changed in order to tune 1/16 and 1/8 opening. It should not be changed solely in order to alter the idle mixture.

Quote:
Your Fuel Screw setting can also have an affect on this. For Winter, a slightly Richer setting may help for start up.
The fuel screw setting should be the only thing that is changed to affect idle mixture, unless it runs out of range. If it does run out of range, it's likely because the pilot jet is clogged, not because a different size needs to be installed.

Regards,

Derek
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Old 01-08-2013, 02:59 PM   #72605
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GaryUnguided View Post
I was confused about this too after reading the BST bible (http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=347184) and the Suzuki manual. I think that we sorted it out in this discussion:
http://drriders.com/topic6542-30.html
Please correct if any of this is wrong.

BST bible way - no measurement, just make the seam in the middle of the float and the float bowl sealing surface parallel when the carb is part way inverted (when the float needle assembly just makes contact with its seat):



Suzuki manual way - invert carb all the way and use calipers and measure 14.7 mm from the bottom most part of the float to the float bowl sealing surface:

Did you read http://www.advrider.com/forums/showp...ostcount=70683?

Regards,

Derek
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Old 01-08-2013, 03:18 PM   #72606
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mambo Dave View Post
So I'm now running my Shinko 705's in the low 30's psi range for local commuting (up from high 20's for rear, 30 for front).

Most manufacturers seem to recommend a couple of pounds higher pressure in the Rear than the Front.

I'm liking it more, but ... I'm sure there's gonna be a down side. I think, in part, it's to make up for the soft suspension that I have neighther the time or money to address right now.

Maybe I should just buy street tires for it the next time I buy tires... there just aren't many more places to explore down here without loads of trespassing. Still, love the bike and the simplicity of it.

Has anyone had a tire bead pop over the rim or bulges at running tires on the DR650 in the low 30's for street use?
You shouldn't have problems until you get very low, like less than 18 pounds. Even then what will happen is the tire may rotate a bit and tear the stem out of the tube.

Suzuki recommends 23 F 25 R for the OEM Trailwings. I usually run 26F 28R on my tires (currently Heidenau K 60) - I get a better 'sticky' feel in the twisties than if I put 30+ in my tires.

.............shu
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Old 01-08-2013, 03:23 PM   #72607
Rusty Rocket
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shu View Post
You shouldn't have problems until you get very low, like less than 18 pounds. Even then what will happen is the tire may rotate a bit and tear the stem out of the tube.

Suzuki recommends 23 F 25 R for the OEM Trailwings. I usually run 26F 28R on my tires (currently Heidenau K 60) - I get a better 'sticky' feel in the twisties than if I put 30+ in my tires.

.............shu
I ran 32psi in front and rear w/ Trailwings on my 1500 mile street adventure. Liked the way if felt. Seemed real smooth and it pushed around the garage soooo much easier than knobbies and 14psi.
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Old 01-08-2013, 03:26 PM   #72608
shu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GSF1200S View Post
I have noticed that with my TM40, just like the BST, I do have to mess with the idle speed adjustment a bit. Ill start on full choke, runs fine. Starts to stumble, half choke. Starts to stumble, off choke. Then, the RPMs want to drop to 1-1.2k which is too slow, so I turn the idle speed up to about 1500. Once the engine gets thoroughly warmed up, it ends up idling at 1.8k rpms, so I back it off down to 1.5k again. The BST and my new TM40 do this, but I havent had a chance to properly set the idle yet (mixture screws). When is it best for me to try and get the mix set absolutely right? Its further complicated by the fact its now in the 50s here, so im pretty sure the DR never really warms up.

My DR warms up just fine in the 50's. That's a great temperature for this motor. (50 ain't cold!!)

I have been changing the oil very frequently as its been in a bunch of dirt (and because im in a humid climate so I want to be very careful about condensation building up in the oil), but I think I need to get some kind of oil cooler block setup for the cold temperatures.

Ive read mention of using a cut down welders glove, and ive of course considered metal plates to cover parts of the fins to allow the DR to warm up.

Interesting. How would you put the glove on? I use a velcro strap around the oil cooler guard to keep a piece of cardboard on as a windblock. This seems effective down to the low 20's (now we're getting cold!!) Below 20 my motor stays cold.



What do you think about any/all of the above? It seems to run perfectly jetted straight from ProCycle, while of course I will need to tweak the idle speed- I dont get lean surge, stumble on sudden WOT, or anything- so, im sure my idle woes are all due part to adjustment and part to temperature..


................shu
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Old 01-08-2013, 03:26 PM   #72609
neo1piv014
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mambo Dave View Post
Cool. Thanks man.

I ran Shinko fronts on my last bike, and never had a complaint. We all know the horror stories of 705's coming apart, but more and more that's looking like those were underinflated tires.
That must have been the issue. I have been insanely hard on these tires at points, run them on a fully loaded bike for hundreds of miles a day, thrashed them on twisty mountain roads as well as rough dirt roads, and they don't show any indication that they're going to come apart. For $100 a set, I'm not sure I'll ever get different rubber.
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Old 01-08-2013, 03:32 PM   #72610
dljocky
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Sorry for jumping in on what i guess I should know, but I haven't heard the stories of the Shinko's coming apart. Is this common? I've probably got over 25K miles from several 705's on the rear of my DR with no problems. Were there any recalls or anything?

Thanks



Quote:
Originally Posted by Mambo Dave View Post
Cool. Thanks man.

I ran Shinko fronts on my last bike, and never had a complaint. We all know the horror stories of 705's coming apart, but more and more that's looking like those were underinflated tires.
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Old 01-08-2013, 03:34 PM   #72611
shu
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Thanks for that, Doug.

I like the looks of this one:



But... right now I'm in 'KLR' mode, and these are more like 'BMW' mode, so I'll just keep using my cardboard wind block. Maybe soon, though.....

............shu
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Old 01-08-2013, 03:50 PM   #72612
garnaro
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Originally Posted by motolab View Post
nope. this would have helped !
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Old 01-08-2013, 04:07 PM   #72613
Adv Grifter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by motolab View Post
Technically, BST40 carbs use a cold start enrichment circuit instead of a choke. A choke is closed when an engine is cold and opened when it is warm, whereas a fuel enrichment circuit is opened when the engine is cold and closed when it is warm. A choke works by restricting the air flow, whereas an enrichment circuit works by adding extra fuel. A choke requires a fast idle cam or something akin to it (or you have to hold the throttle open manually), whereas an enrichment circuit adds a little extra air simultaneously with the extra fuel, so the fast idle is already built in.

The pilot jet size should be changed in order to tune 1/16 and 1/8 opening. It should not be changed solely in order to alter the idle mixture.

The fuel screw setting should be the only thing that is changed to affect idle mixture, unless it runs out of range. If it does run out of range, it's likely because the pilot jet is clogged, not because a different size needs to be installed.

Regards,

Derek
Thanks for the clarification Derek. I use the term "Choke" to aid communication, I'm aware the DR has an enrichment circuit. I'm only relating my experience tuning DR650's. I had one that needed NO choke (enrichment) to start ... and if you used choke it would begin a stumble at idle almost right away. So I figured something was too rich somewhere.

I asked Mark Salvisburg and the boys ... they suggested a smaller Pilot (leaner). I did this and problem went away. Bike ran well everywhere else.
Go figure. Turns out the Pilot that was in the CARB was oversize, not stock. Went to stock Pilot Jet, all good. Wonders never cease.

Your warnings about clogged Pilot Jets are well taken. I had this problem with a DRZ400E. I thought I'd got the Pilot Jet clean ... not so. The little tiny holes on the side (I guess) were still clogged up. I ended up putting in a NEW Pilot Jet. End of problem. I would have bet money I'd got that jet clean ... but I didn't!
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Old 01-08-2013, 04:17 PM   #72614
Adv Grifter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dljocky View Post
Sorry for jumping in on what i guess I should know, but I haven't heard the stories of the Shinko's coming apart. Is this common? I've probably got over 25K miles from several 705's on the rear of my DR with no problems. Were there any recalls or anything?

Thanks
I think if you search around on the GSpot forum you may find Shinko stories ... every BMW guy on there now hate Shinko and really believe they are junk.
This is good ... keeps the price down for those of us who know better.

A few did come apart on loaded R1200GS's and the like. I don't believe the tire is rated to hold up under a 700 lbs. R1200GS ADV fully loaded with 100 lbs. of luggage, two up, doing 100 mph in 95F heat for hours and hours.

I'm on my 3rd 705 Shinko now and no such issues. But many OEM's have had bad batches of tires. Metzeler certainly did and so has Avon. Avon gave away LOTS of free tires when the Distanzia first came out ... I was the recipient of one. Metzeler? Not so much! (and one reason I still support Avon today)

Shinko are made in Korea by Yokohama. So these dudes are not new at this. If you ever have a problem with a tire ... go to a dealer. Any dealer. Most times you'll get a new tire out of it if what you have is truly a fault.

That said, our lightweight DR is far easier on tires (and everything really) than a GS, Tenere' or KTM 990. But were 150 lbs. to 200 lbs. lighter, makes sense, right?
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Old 01-08-2013, 04:26 PM   #72615
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Originally Posted by Adv Grifter View Post
A few did come apart on loaded R1200GS's and the like.
Yes, the early 705s had problems dealing with heavy bikes and high speeds. The tires in the problem sizes have been redesigned and carry different part numbers (and higher prices). The update happened about 2 years ago. Since then Shinkos have been getting rave reviews.
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