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Old 01-09-2013, 03:10 PM   #72676
TUCKERS
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Comments on available light(er) weight exhaust with lifetime packing?

I don't want a re-pack exhaust, what's available?
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Old 01-09-2013, 03:13 PM   #72677
BergDonk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deathu View Post
Thanks, do you happen to know approximately how much the plunger was extended at those 57.000kms? (I mean distance from the gasket surface to the tip of the plunger). Also I do not actually know how the automatic tensioner works, I presume it retains it's length when you remove it from the cylinder? Or does it extend fully when removed?


Another thing that concerns me is the piston. It seems to be in a relatively good shape, apart from the piston pin bores - they look sort of "eroded" although you can't feel any surface irregularities when driving a fingernail inside:
When you remove the tensioner, if you do it with 3 hands or more, hold a screw driver into the adjustment screw and don't allow it to turn as it comes out. See how far out it is from the body. Now release the screw and you'll see full extension, now wind the screw in and just a bit more to lock it in and you'll see it fully compressed. Don't worry if it slips when pulling it out the first time, just push it in and try again until you get it. In fact you really need to remove it first to 'crack' the gasket and then do it again stoppin git extending as you remove it to check it.

I'd be putting a fresh piston in. If $s are desperate, it might tidy up, but...............

Do we have a needle roller little end or a plain bush? The little end looks like its picked up on the gudgeon too, so that needs to be understood as well.
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Old 01-09-2013, 03:20 PM   #72678
Mongle
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Location: North Carolina Y'all
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Deathu,

What you are seeing in the pin bore is material moving around. Pin clearance was probably on the tight side in those areas and the alumn. was trying to stick to the pin. Happens usually when the piston gets real HOT (working the engine hard) and then gets cooled quickly (water crossing) and the alumn. piston shrinks faster than the steel pin. Also known as pin stick.




Get a new piston pin. Take pin and piston to a local machine shop. They should have mandrels that they can hone the piston pin bore to give it a nice finish. I would run in the .0005-.0007" range of clearance on an air cooled engine.



I’m not sure what Suzuki recommends- I will try to find it.

Edit: Sorry, forgot that DR has a floating pin in the rod. Suzuki reccomends .0003" clearance pin to piston and .0006" clearance pin to connecting rod. That is tighter then what most water cooled engines run. If it was mine I would set up the piston to pin at .0005-.0007" and pin to rod at .0007-.0009". You wont have any problems there. High performance engines run double that amount with no ill effects.

Mongle screwed with this post 01-09-2013 at 03:28 PM
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Old 01-09-2013, 03:21 PM   #72679
deathu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BergDonk View Post
Do we have a needle roller little end or a plain bush? The little end looks like its picked up on the gudgeon too, so that needs to be understood as well.
It's a plain bush on the little end. From the schematics I understand it's a needle bearing only on the big end, but at this point I do not plan to crack the crankcase halves apart.

Also that photo highlights the worst looking part of the piston. Actually it looks better, and the measurements look good - only the bore thingie worries me.



LE. Mongle, thanks for the explanation - I really appreciate it.
Well this is kind of sad, we aren't getting any new DRs here in Europe since 2003, due to ridiculous pollution regulations. Even when the model was being sold as new, it was not too popular here, and it seems to me the majority are pretty trashed up. Hard to find a good one around these places... anyways the model is too nice (at least i like it a LOT) and I'll rebuild it as good as I can. The engine was running ok'ish, I only wanted to fix oil burning and oil leak.
Why am I saying this... well I was reading the discussions regarding the used price it it sold at in US. It makes me very sad, I wish I had the chance to buy a DR that's not more than a few years old and not that trashed up. It's not about the money, but about the unavailability of the bike here.

deathu screwed with this post 01-09-2013 at 03:42 PM
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Old 01-09-2013, 04:57 PM   #72680
Skidmarkart
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Location: Durham NC, The Old Durty
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Quote:
Originally Posted by opium89 View Post
Did you noticed any of the other symptoms I've described? Idle that seems high? Strange, muffled "boom" when the bike is shut off? I am able to lean the bike out via the fuel mixture screw to the point of some pretty serious decel popping, and the idle increases pretty dramatically at the other end of the spectrum when I get to about 3 1/2 turns out on the screw.
Yep. All those were part of my symptoms. I didn't mess too much with the fuel screw setting. Just a basic slow or fast idle. Getting that chunk of crap out of the pilot jet was the big thing, I am fairly certain. But looking back at your post, everything on my bike is stock (well, except my bars and shifter - see post about spilling my dumb-ass self this AM) so it may not be the same thing, but it sure sounds the same. Odd bog-down, off-idle. Unhappy for the first quarter turn or so of the throttle, but fine to near-perfect afterwards. Los of popping on deceleration.

One thing that sold the pilot-jet diagnosis, was that it ran perfectly with the choke engaged (or whatever the alternative on the DR carb is). Does yours behave in a totally normal fashion when you have the cold start thing engaged? If so, I'd look at that pilot jet.
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Old 01-09-2013, 04:59 PM   #72681
motolab
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Quote:
Originally Posted by opium89 View Post
So, the problem is basically on off-idle hesitation. It's not present while the bike is sitting and rev'd, but very obvious when riding it. Any acceleration off idle in any gear and there is a noticeable "bog" before it starts moving along.
Quote:
What I can't determine however is if the pilot jet, or perhaps the needle are suspect.
Put some tape on the throttle housing and the edge of the grip. Mark zero throttle with a sharpie. This is best done with the engine idling, so you can tell when the slack in the cable has just been taken up. Turn off the engine and mark wide open. Now take a tape measure (metric works best in my opinion) and measure the length of the arc. Put a mark at the mid point. Duplicate this procedure to mark the mid-point between here and zero throttle opening to get 1/4 open. Repeat for 1/8 and 1/16 openings.With the help of the marks, determine precisely during what throttle opening(s) it misbehaves. Don't have an accident trying to look at the marks while riding. If you do, I'm not responsible!

Correspondences on CV carbs:

Low rpm all throttle positions: float height, needle base diameter, emulsion tube outlet size
WOT operation overall: main jet
WOT operation between HP peak and red line: main air corrector
WOT operation below red line: jet needle shape
1/4 throttle opening: jet needle clip position
1/8 throttle opening: pilot jet size
1/16 throttle opening: pilot jet size
idle: mixture screw adjustment

Note that tuning should always be done from the top down, although the idle mixture screw should be adjusted at each change.
Quote:
Does anyone know where these two items can be acquired on the cheap? I've tried calling Sudco on the pilot jet, but they were far less than useful on the phone and are completely unable to determine which pilot get I need. Procycle of course sells the needle in a kit, but as you probably know, it's a little pricey, and I only really want/need the needle and not the rest of the parts included.
See http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=528038.

Regards,

Derek
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Old 01-09-2013, 05:05 PM   #72682
motolab
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Feelers View Post
I would get this needle: #584310346-G5. I think that is the right part number for the KTM LC4.... Don't forget the circlip.
I would recommend installing an adjustable non-USA OEM needle, part number 13383-32E00.
Quote:
I would keep the stock size pilot jet, though. Putting in a new one would eliminate that though as a problem source.
I agree that a fresh pilot jet should be installed to start.

Regards,

Derek
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Old 01-09-2013, 05:29 PM   #72683
motolab
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Quote:
Originally Posted by opium89 View Post
Do you know if the jets are stamped with their respective sizes?
They are, but I would also make sure that they are genuine Mikuni items.
Quote:
There'a also a couple other things to note. The idle on this bike seems a little high to me. This is with the idle adjustment backed all the way down. The second thing of note is there is a little bit of a "backfire" immediately after the bike is shut off.
I recommend checking for vacuum leaks.
Quote:
I use the term "backfire" loosely, as it's more like a muffled "boom" sound, as opposed to the "pop pop pop" I get when the bike is running noticeably lean when cranking the air/fuel screw down. The sweet spot for the air/fuel mixture screw seems to be between about 1 1/2 and 2 1/2 open.
The most proper way to refer to the idle mixture screw (aka pilot screw) on a BST carb is as a fuel screw, as it does not adjust air and fuel simultaneously. There are things called air screws on carbs where you adjust the idle mixture by changing the quantity of air being bled into the pilot circuit. The reason this is important is that a fuel screw makes the idle mixture richer by screwing out and leaner by screwing in, whereas an air screw makes the idle mixture richer by screwing in, and leaner by screwing out. Fuel screws are usually on the downstream side of the slide, and air screws are usually on the upstream side (although I have seen occasional exceptions).
Quote:
Get past 3 turns or so, and the idle speed starts to creep upwards.
That's likely to be happening because you're adding fuel to match the extra air that is coming in as a result of a vacuum leak.

Regards,

Derek
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Old 01-09-2013, 05:31 PM   #72684
motolab
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Quote:
Originally Posted by procycle View Post
Most expect a bigger pilot jet will cure a lean hesitation which is actually due to the needle. They end up with a rich bog off idle followed by the same lean hesitation they started out with.
The validity of these statements depends upon whether the hesitation is in the 1/16-1/8 or the 1/4 opening range.

Regards,

Derek
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Old 01-09-2013, 05:37 PM   #72685
motolab
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deathu View Post
Thanks, do you happen to know approximately how much the plunger was extended at those 57.000kms? (I mean distance from the gasket surface to the tip of the plunger). Also I do not actually know how the automatic tensioner works, I presume it retains it's length when you remove it from the cylinder? Or does it extend fully when removed?


Another thing that concerns me is the piston. It seems to be in a relatively good shape, apart from the piston pin bores - they look sort of "eroded" although you can't feel any surface irregularities when driving a fingernail inside:



The piston pin I will replace for sure, but I don't know if the way the bores are "eroded" on the piston, justify replacing the piston as well. I don't have the instruments required to measure the ID of the piston bores. This is the first time I am opening an engine. It just seems to me as if aluminum from the piston was "transfered" to the piston pin:
The galling in the middle (that is where the pin runs in the small end of the rod) indicates an oil film failure, which is usually caused by detonation.

Regards,

Derek
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Old 01-09-2013, 05:42 PM   #72686
motolab
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deathu View Post
Also that photo highlights the worst looking part of the piston. Actually it looks better, and the measurements look good - only the bore thingie worries me.
I'd replace it because of the smearing in the pin bore. Also, that's a fair bit of carbon on top of the piston. I'd try to determine the source and and remedy that.

Regards,

Derek
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Old 01-09-2013, 05:45 PM   #72687
Thumper Dan
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luggage and dry bags

I'm slowly upgrading my DR for touring and i'm at the stage of getting a rear duffle bag. But i'm not sure to get a 40 litre or a 60 litre.

I would need to put into this bag: tent, sleeping bag, mattress (small) camping pillow , bike cover and some other odds and ends i'm sure will creep into it as well. I'm feeling a 60 litre bag should be a better size but I don't want it too bulky for the back of the bike.

I already have wolfman expedition bags but one side would be for clothes and the other will be for food and cooking utensils.

I've been looking at these on ebay: http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/OVERBOARD...#ht_3141wt_906

thanks -
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Old 01-09-2013, 06:22 PM   #72688
opium89
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Location: Hutto, Texas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by motolab View Post
They are, but I would also make sure that they are genuine Mikuni items.I recommend checking for vacuum leaks.The most proper way to refer to the idle mixture screw (aka pilot screw) on a BST carb is as a fuel screw, as it does not adjust air and fuel simultaneously. There are things called air screws on carbs where you adjust the idle mixture by changing the quantity of air being bled into the pilot circuit. The reason this is important is that a fuel screw makes the idle mixture richer by screwing out and leaner by screwing in, whereas an air screw makes the idle mixture richer by screwing in, and leaner by screwing out. Fuel screws are usually on the downstream side of the slide, and air screws are usually on the upstream side (although I have seen occasional exceptions).That's likely to be happening because you're adding fuel to match the extra air that is coming in as a result of a vacuum leak.

Regards,

Derek
Thanks Derek. I also have highly suspected a vacuum leak, but if there is one I have been unable to locate it just yet...and not for lack of trying.

The bike is originally a CA bike, but being here in Texas, I went ahead and removed all the emission control stuff. For the record, I did plug the purge port along with the vacuum port on top normally used for the stock petcock. Bike has an IMS tank with a standard petcock. The only other hoses coming off the carb now are for the breather and there's one other one right below it that isn't attached to anything and runs up under the seat alongside the breather. I am not really sure of it's function. I am however aware of the fuel screw and it's function, just wanted to be clear to everyone what I was referring to.

I guess the next steps will be to take the carb apart one more time, measure the jets that are installed, and see if I can determine if there are any plugged orifices I still might have missed. I'm a little doubtful on the last one as I gave it a pretty good going through last time around.

I will also take a very close look around the airbox and maybe go as far as to remove it and the air boot and makes sure there are no leaky-leaks anywhere.

My initial guesswork has evolved around the throttle at 1/8 where the hesitation is taking place. This is really why the talk about the pilot jet has been bothering me.

I will report my findings. Thanks!
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Old 01-09-2013, 06:34 PM   #72689
Albie
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adv Grifter View Post
Excuse me? Hey Greg ... what about those pesky 10 years difference in age of these two bikes? And how many owners had your bike in those ten years?
And did you know a 5th grader can disconnect the stock speedo? I never trust it ... look at the bike, listen to the motor.

To me ... those ten years are easily worth the $1600 price difference.
Well, I wouldn't pay $1900 for a 96, but I sure as hell wouldn't pay $3500 for that '06. I got my '06 with 10K miles and about $750 more in farkles and a Zumo 550 GPS for $2800.
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Old 01-09-2013, 06:55 PM   #72690
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thumper Dan View Post
I'm slowly upgrading my DR for touring and i'm at the stage of getting a rear duffle bag. But i'm not sure to get a 40 litre or a 60 litre.

I would need to put into this bag: tent, sleeping bag, mattress (small) camping pillow , bike cover and some other odds and ends i'm sure will creep into it as well. I'm feeling a 60 litre bag should be a better size but I don't want it too bulky for the back of the bike.

I already have wolfman expedition bags but one side would be for clothes and the other will be for food and cooking utensils.

I've been looking at these on ebay: http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/OVERBOARD...#ht_3141wt_906

thanks -
In general, if you have a poled tent, the poles will determine the length of the bag. If you're worried about bulkiness, remember it's not the bag but the stuff you put into the bag.

I bought the Wolfman Medium Duffel. It's long enough to accommodate tent poles and big enough to hold tent, sleeping bag, small camp chair, & mattress with some room to spare. My decision was between the North Face duffel & the Wolfman. The Wolfman was waterproof & cheaper. In addition it has loops that you can strap things to.

There's plenty of cheaper duffels & dry bags that you can buy at Cabela's, WalMart, etc...just find one that fits what you plan to put into it.

Stick with 60L, if there's empty space just cinch it down.
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