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Old 03-19-2013, 08:25 AM   #74926
Bronco638
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Quote:
Originally Posted by french horn
Looking for advice ... my sons' DR got drowned in the Bundaberg floods.. A mate of his took it home and "checked it out" ... I'm not sure what he found but after a few days said it was now OK.
Son rode it home ( a few K's ), then it wouldn't go again.

Here's the question: ... bike shop has looked at it and estimates $3000 to fix it ... WHAT COULD BE WRONG? ... I thought an oil change would resolve the "swim" .... any/all thoughts appreciated.
If the bike was completely under water (and, it sounds like it was), the wiring harness will be garbage. This may explain why it won't run now. You could try looking for a complete harness from a wrecked DR. $3000 is probably to completely tear the bike apart and to replace the wiring as well as to ensure all the water is removed (from everywhere). When this happens in the US, the vehicle is marked as "salvage" on the title and the insurance company declares it a total loss. Some of these "flood cars" come back to haunt the unwary via the unscrupulous. The usual issue is electrical because the harness has corroded.
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Old 03-19-2013, 08:50 AM   #74927
Rob.G
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adv Grifter View Post
I'm not suggesting jetting leaner than stock or too lean ... but to MATCH stock jetting ... or get close.

When the air box is opened and carb re-jetted, DJ (or other) needle installed, jetting is typically set richer than stock to compensate for the open air box and more free flowing air filter. (IE: from stock 140 Mikuni Main jet to a 160 Dyno Jet main jet)

All I suggest is don't go TOO RICH on the Main jet or needle clip position ... try to match stock jetting. Obviously if pinging occurs ... you've got a problem ... and I'm betting in some cases it's the "loose nut behind the wheel" ! (Lugging?)

I've ridden 3 brand new DR650's ... going back to 1996. No pinging on any of them running mostly regular gas. Also, my riding group now has 6 DR riders ... no pinging reported among that group either. 3 are stock, 3 are opened up and re-jetted. We've ridden together 10 years and about 50,000 miles. Almost always a DR or three on our rides.

Running lean isn't going to cause pinging. That's a result of timing advance and octane. Rather, running lean will give you a lean "surge" and running rich will cause the engine to bog.

FWIW, I picked up a used Wideband O2 sensor on eBay a few years ago. I welded a bung into the head pipes of my bikes and use that for verifying jetting. It works great!

Rob
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Rob.G screwed with this post 03-19-2013 at 10:02 AM
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Old 03-19-2013, 08:53 AM   #74928
psmcd
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NE Oregon

Hey Reinstein, welcome, I'm in Utah now but make occasional trips to home turf Pendleton. Lot's of great riding there, maybe we'll get in a ride when I come through.
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Old 03-19-2013, 09:08 AM   #74929
Mongle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by victor441 View Post
You should definitely take it back, generally a 130/70 should not be mounted on a rim any narrower than 3.0" and the DR rear rim is only 2.5" so the tire will be pinched and the profile will be wrong which could potentially be unsafe...in any case you will not be able to use the whole tire and will have big chicken strips. There is a very handy rim width vs. tire size general reference at http://www.mtsac.edu/~cliff/storage/...Size_Chart.pdf
but you should check the tire makers site to be sure. So far as balancing goes a static balancer with cones works fine on DR wheels, I got one from Harbor Freight but from what I've read lately they have not been packed well and the axles tend to be bent so another source might be better.
I have been running 130 tires for over 3 years. Never been a problem. That chart gives "possible fitment" and "recommended" rim sizes. It is not the last word in tire to rim. Does the profile change...yep. Do I care...nope. Handles great. Who cares about chicken strips; it is a dual sport.
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Old 03-19-2013, 09:09 AM   #74930
Adv Grifter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by french horn View Post
Looking for advice ... my sons' DR got drowned in the Bundaberg floods.. A mate of his took it home and "checked it out" ... I'm not sure what he found but after a few days said it was now OK.
Son rode it home ( a few K's ), then it wouldn't go again.

Here's the question: ... bike shop has looked at it and estimates $3000 to fix it ... WHAT COULD BE WRONG? ... I thought an oil change would resolve the "swim" .... any/all thoughts appreciated.






.
Could be something as simple as water in the fuel tank or Carb. Flush out tank with Diesel, drain Carb bowl. Flush and clean Carb. Clean air box of all dirt and mud. Clean intake tract leading from air box into Carb.

DO NOT START THE BIKE .. first ..

Look at the oil. Is it light Brown or Green? If so ... drain it, flush crankcase with Diesel. If not? Drain it anyway, do an oil/filter change.

Could be a wiring issue ... but I would NOT replace the harness. No need.
It's just wet and unless its sat wet for months ... then it just needs connectors pulled apart, dried out and Dilectric grease applied to all connectors and plugs. Big Job.

Don't forget the brakes! You should flush out and clean both front and rear calipers, flush system with fresh brake fluid. Repeat after a month.

Starter: Best to remove, disassemble and clean.

Bearings: Clean and re-grease. If any rust ... replace. (don't forget cushion link bearings)

Hopefully no water or mud got into bottom end of the motor while it was running. This would not be good. Once everything above is done, fresh oil and fuel added. Give it a shot. I'll bet it's OK. Good luck!

Adv Grifter screwed with this post 03-19-2013 at 09:15 AM
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Old 03-19-2013, 09:57 AM   #74931
thetable
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob.G View Post
Running lean isn't going to causing pinging.
Sure it will. Lean condition will cause the engine to run hot, thus greatly increasing the likelyhood of preignition which will cause knocking or pinging.
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Old 03-19-2013, 10:09 AM   #74932
Rob.G
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Originally Posted by thetable View Post
Sure it will. Lean condition will cause the engine to run hot, thus greatly increasing the likelyhood of preignition which will cause knocking or pinging.
Okay I'll buy that, BUT, by that time, you should have been feeling the surge.

Rob
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Old 03-19-2013, 10:20 AM   #74933
Skidmarkart
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Location: Durham NC, The Old Durty
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mongle View Post
Who cares about chicken strips; it is a dual sport.
Yeah - I'm nearly 40 have two kids, and ride a big yellow dirt bike to work everyday. Not really worried about cool anymore
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Old 03-19-2013, 10:22 AM   #74934
motolab
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob.G View Post
Running lean isn't going to cause pinging.
Incorrect. If the mixture, timing, octane, compression (static and dynamic) and exhaust breathing are such that the engine is just shy of pinging, a leaner mixture will cause it to ping.
Quote:
That's a result of timing advance and octane.
Plus compression (static and dynamic), exhaust breathing and mixture.
Quote:
Rather, running lean will give you a lean "surge" and running rich will cause the engine to bog.
Running lean can definitely produce surging, but it can also produce hesitations and, depending of severity, bogging. Running rich will produce no discernible symptoms except a loss in horsepower unless the richness is very severe, in which case it can produce hesitations, misfires, surging, and perhaps bogs.
Quote:
FWIW, I picked up a used Wideband O2 sensor on eBay a few years ago. I welded a bung into the head pipes of my bikes and use that for verifying jetting.
I don't consider O2 sensors to be very useful. Here's a brief overview:

1) There is no direct relationship between O2 content and AFR.
2) Even when the mixture cannot be improved, O2 content can and does vary from "ideal".
3) The O2 content can be "perfect" while the mixture is way off.
4) There are may factors that affect O2 content, such as bore size, exhaust valve sealing, ignition timing, and misfires.
5) There is no single "perfect" O2-derived AFR that is applicable to all engines and all combinations of MAP (or TP) and rpm.
6) An O2 sensor's response time is not zero, meaning that there will be a delay between when an O2 content is produced and when it will be read/displayed.
7) An O2 sensor's response time is not likely to be consistent, meaning that the above mentioned delay will vary (i.e. a simple offset will not work).
8) Changes in pressure affect O2 sensor accuracy (pressures inside exhaust systems fluctuate wildly).
9) Changes in temperature affect O2 sensor accuracy, and a heater cannot respond quickly enough to keep it constant.
10) Changes in input voltage affect O2 sensor accuracy (the better controllers can usually eliminate this problem).
11) In the end, AFR is irrelevant. What is relevant is HP and or BSFC at a given intersection of MAP (or TP) and rpm.
12) CO% is the strongest indicator of whether or not the mixture strength is such that the engine will produce best HP or BSFC
13) NOx content (as far as gasses go) is the strongest indicator of whether or not the timing is such that the engine will produce best HP or BSFC, and that it is not detonating.
14) O2 is not a tuning gas. O2 is a diagnostic gas. As such, it tells us about problems such as leaky exhaust valves, weak ignition, misfires & stagger issues after having tuned fuel via CO (with the final arbiter being HP or BSFC) and ignition advance via NOX (with the final arbiter being HP or BSFC).

I'm pleased to note that posters at http://drriders.com/topic3733.html have exhibited awareness of at least some of the above-mentioned.
Quote:
It works great!
I suppose this depends on the definition of the word "great".

Regards,

Derek
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Old 03-19-2013, 10:26 AM   #74935
motolab
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob.G View Post
Okay I'll buy that, BUT, by that time, you should have been feeling the surge.
Not necessarily. Combustion process temps can go up drastically (as evidenced by NOX content in the exhaust gasses) by dropping the CO% by a fraction of a percent while within the optimal 3-5% CO range. There may not be surging until 2% CO or below.

Regards,

Derek
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Old 03-19-2013, 10:28 AM   #74936
victor441
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mongle View Post
I have been running 130 tires for over 3 years. Never been a problem. That chart gives "possible fitment" and "recommended" rim sizes. It is not the last word in tire to rim. Does the profile change...yep. Do I care...nope. Handles great. Who cares about chicken strips; it is a dual sport.
It is not that simple...130/90 is generally OK on a 2.5 rim while 130/70 is not and as I said the tire makers data should be checked for a definite answer on fitment. The OP said he was switching to road tires....many (including me) run road tires on their DR's and ride them fast on twisty roads so running a suitable tire that fits right DOES matter for safety and performance.....

victor441 screwed with this post 03-19-2013 at 10:35 AM
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Old 03-19-2013, 10:39 AM   #74937
motolab
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Quote:
Originally Posted by procycle View Post
If that's what is happening with your bike you can flip the plastic washer over and be back to the original needle height.
I would only recommend doing that if the spacer is still tight on the needle. If not, it will allow the needle to spin, which causes wear where it passes through the slide. See http://www.moto-lab.com/gallery/view?itemid=306.

Regards,

Derek
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Old 03-19-2013, 11:16 AM   #74938
Mongle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by victor441 View Post
It is not that simple...130/90 is generally OK on a 2.5 rim while 130/70 is not and as I said the tire makers data should be checked for a definite answer on fitment. The OP said he was switching to road tires....many (including me) run road tires on their DR's and ride them fast on twisty roads so running a suitable tire that fits right DOES matter for safety and performance.....
Guess I should have specified: I run a Pirelli Scorpion 130/80 right now. NO problems. Chart says don't do it (matter of fact chart says don't run ANY 130 tire on 2.5 rim-which is why I didn't specify the 80). I did it..still here to talk about it. And I ride the shit out of mine on the paved roads in NC.

If it worries you I say don't do it. You will never have the confidence of the tire if you trust the chart.
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Old 03-19-2013, 11:24 AM   #74939
Skidmarkart
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Good news... the shop was super nice about the tire thing, and said come on back and switch it out. I'll definitely be giving these guys a good review (and probably a few bucks to help them out on the labor/tire), and my return business.
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Old 03-19-2013, 11:24 AM   #74940
Mongle
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Anyone need valve stem seals?

I order from a manufacturer and had to order 25. I needed some and got some for another inmate. I will have about 3 sets left over. I don't know the exact price yet but usually it is about 25% of Ronayers cost.

I should have them in end of the week/beginning of next. Just shoot me a PM.
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