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Old 03-20-2013, 09:58 AM   #75016
Greaslife
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl Childers View Post
As long as I'm not hearing here that you ran it dry (no oil) you'll be just fine. It will be a few thousand miles before the tranny smooths out. I bought mine used but with very few miles on it and shifting was notchy untill I racked up about 3K on the speedo.
Thanks for the feed back. I didn't run it with out oil. Just changed it and the filter .
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Old 03-20-2013, 10:06 AM   #75017
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Originally Posted by Hesaid View Post
Ok, so I sat down and did some math. It seems like with 14/15/16 tooth sprockets as choices for up front, and 42/45/46 for the rear, I've got a range of final drive ratios from ~2.6 to ~3.3, compared to the 2.8 stock. Certainly no need to go higher, so the 16/42 is ruled out, leaving mostly options of around 2.8, 3, and 3.2. Another concern is that gearing down is going to make things torquier. Neither of us are much in the way of hooligans, and like the fact that the DR won't wheelie by throttle alone...


It won't?!






I forget...Did you all take a BRC already? If so, do you still have your workbooks? You can continue to practice the drills from the BRC, as well as other drills in the workbook that may have not been covered in class. There also instructional videos you can watch online or on DVD.
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Old 03-20-2013, 10:18 AM   #75018
motolab
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Originally Posted by thump! View Post
I figure Suzuki has vastly more resources in that regard and has done the due diligence to make this thing work as well as possible within the constraints of emission requirements.
Unfortunately the constraints imposed by emissions requirements mean poor performance to one degree or another in the part throttle area that the EPA performs testing in. Often the goal of reduced emissions is not actually met because the bike runs so poorly in the real world that emissions are actually higher than they would have been had the engine been tuned for decent performance instead. To that comes that if a certain region of throttle opening runs poorly, the operator will often open the throttle to get out of that zone to one that runs OK, and that the operator may make efforts to tune the bike to improve matters himself.
Quote:
I found your suggestion that drilling the slide increases wear particularly interesting. I assume that is because there is more slide movement when the cross sectional area of the bleed hole(s) is larger.
Consider that there is an intake pulse every 720 degrees, which is what raises the slide. Between those pulses, the slide spring and gravity try to push the slide back down. In order for the slide to be allowed to be pushed back down, the vacuum above the diaphragm has to bleed off through the slide lift holes. The larger the slide lift holes, the faster that vacuum can bleed off, and therefore the greater the distance the slide can be pushed down before the next pulse. At the next pulse, the slide has to be pulled back up by the distance it fell (more if there is acceleration, less if there is deceleration). Conversely, the smaller the lift holes, the slower the vacuum can bleed off, and therefore the smaller the distance the slide can be pushed down before the next pulse, and therefore the smaller the distance the slide has to be pulled back up at the next pulse.

Dyno testing I have done with a double lift hole slide vs. a single lift hole slide on a KTM shows modest gains for the single lift hole slide across almost the entire range at WOT with no losses anywhere. At 1/4 opening there were gains across the entire range while the mixture stayed essentially the same, with a max gain in torque of 1.4 ft-lbs at 3K rpm. There were gains across the board at 1/8 opening, with a max gain in torque of 2.6 ft-lbs at 2K rpm, along with the usable rev range extended from 3.4K to 5K rpm. There were also gains across the board at 1/16 opening, with a max gain in torque of 1.2 ft-lbs at 2.5K rpm, along with the usable rev range extended from 2.5K to 3K rpm.
Quote:
The "seat of the pants" effect however is that the bike appears to have better throttle response. Why is that?
The mixture may be richer at small openings as a result of more lift hole area.
Quote:
For me the limitations of the DR650 with a completely stock carb are that the throttle response is sluggish, and it doesn't "thump" properly at very low speeds.
That's probably mostly due to jetting issues.
Quote:
Yes, I know what MXRob says about the BST40 and I'm quite sure there are some limitations that just can't be overcome with a CV type carb. However, I don't want to change out the carb.
I wouldn't recommend doing it without increasing exhaust breathing/other measures anyhow unless I was able to verify that the increased cylinder filling was not going to bring with it the danger of detonation issues.
Quote:
I have a TM33 on my DR350 and I fully understand the benefits AND the limitations.
I agree that slide carbs have their own set of limitations.
Quote:
I expect the accelerator pump of a TM or FCR carb would fix most of my complaints but I don't want the altitude sensitivity or the increased fuel consumption that comes with a cable operated slide, pumper carb.
The accelerator pump alone won't do anything but unnecessarily add fuel whenever the throttle is opened. It is only in conjunction with a large bore size (relative to engine displacement) slide carb that this becomes useful.
Quote:
So, if drilling the slide is a bad idea what general direction would you take to improve off idle response and tractability and if possible the overall performance WITH the BST40?
Jet it properly.

Regards,

Derek

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Old 03-20-2013, 10:29 AM   #75019
garnaro
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Originally Posted by motolab View Post
If the slide guide has worn more than .010" (0.25mm), i.e. the indentations in the bottom corners adjacent to the bore (not to be confused with the round indentations) are less than .010" (0.25mm) deep, and/or the slide exhibits vertical grooving on the downstream side, it is pretty much guaranteed that the emulsion tube is worn out. To that end, see http://www.moto-lab.com/gallery/view?itemid=298, http://www.moto-lab.com/gallery/view?itemid=299, http://www.moto-lab.com/gallery/view?itemid=300, http://www.moto-lab.com/gallery/view?itemid=301, http://www.moto-lab.com/gallery/view?itemid=305, http://www.moto-lab.com/gallery/view?itemid=302 and http://www.moto-lab.com/gallery/view?itemid=304.Replace the slide if it has been drilled.
Thanks for this very relevant info that I've never found anywhere else.
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Old 03-20-2013, 03:55 PM   #75020
BergDonk
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Fcr ap

With big bores like the DR the AP can be disconnected entirely and it'll still run fine. In fact this is recommended to do to get all the other jetting etc right before bringing the AP in.

These carbs were developed originally for road racing superbikes, 750 and later, 1000 fours. 250 cc and smaller cylinders don't generate much vacuum through the carb so the AP assists when the throttle is banged open, but with a big bore and more vacuum, the AP is needed less and less, and can confuse if its operational when getting the base settings right. Nevertheless, its still does add some snap when you do bring it in, and the fuel consumption penalty in my experience is insignificant.

If you are touring there is probably not much point, but the more technical the riding, the better it is.
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Old 03-20-2013, 05:06 PM   #75021
Greaslife
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Well today It left me stranded right after work filled up at the gas station and now it won't run and can't get it restarted. Waiting for the tow truck sucks. To the dealer it goes.
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Old 03-20-2013, 06:52 PM   #75022
Rusty Rocket
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Originally Posted by Greaslife View Post
Well today It left me stranded right after work filled up at the gas station and now it won't run and can't get it restarted. Waiting for the tow truck sucks. To the dealer it goes.
Did you top off the tank?

I've heard of the charcoal recovery (or whatever it is) getting loaded up with gas and the bike doesn't start. It acts flooded.
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Old 03-20-2013, 07:32 PM   #75023
BenYork
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Originally Posted by Thunderhart8 View Post
I have a set of fly aero racing handlebars 1 1/8" , i think, with a protaper mount. I also have the stock handlebars which are wider i like. The fly bars are bent from playing to hard in the mud. So I decided that I wanted to go to stock and disassembled the handlebar with all the goodies. When I went to place the stock bars on there is a huge gap for the protaper mount and stock handelbars. Admittedly at this point I placed my beer down and I am taking a break.
I have lost the original mount and the protaper raises the bars up almost 2 inches away, much more comfortable. Is there a spacer or something out there that is available for purchase? If not I will suppose that fabricating would not be difficult. I was also thinking of placing a rubber spacer in the mount to absorb some of the natural shaking of the motor.

Your input and experience is most appreciated..

I got all the stock handlebar bits (except the bar) from when I upgraded to 1 1/8 bars and HDB risers etc. Your welcome to them for something and shipping.
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Old 03-20-2013, 07:43 PM   #75024
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Originally Posted by Rusty Rocket View Post
Did you top off the tank?

I've heard of the charcoal recovery (or whatever it is) getting loaded up with gas and the bike doesn't start. It acts flooded.

This has happened to me. Let it sit for an hour or more and it will start right up.
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Old 03-20-2013, 07:51 PM   #75025
Greaslife
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Rusty. I did top it off

Quote:
Originally Posted by BenYork View Post
This has happened to me. Let it sit for an hour or more and it will start right up.
Yay it did after I got home.

Is there any thing I can do to stop this ? I'm not against any mods.
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Old 03-20-2013, 08:17 PM   #75026
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Don't top off or remove smog stuff
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Old 03-20-2013, 08:24 PM   #75027
Greaslife
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By by smog stuff going to the rafters with other take offs
What about vacuum fuel crap do I need a desert tank too get rid of it ? I just see a problem with it out in the north forty
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Old 03-20-2013, 08:35 PM   #75028
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Originally Posted by Greaslife View Post
What about vacuum fuel crap do I need a desert tank too get rid of it ?
I think it's to do with the fuel tap (petcock) rather than the tank.

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Old 03-20-2013, 08:37 PM   #75029
Greaslife
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chill View Post
I think it's to do with the fuel tap (petcock) rather than the tank.
Thanks for the info
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Old 03-20-2013, 08:46 PM   #75030
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Originally Posted by Greaslife View Post
By by smog stuff going to the rafters with other take offs
What about vacuum fuel crap do I need a desert tank too get rid of it ? I just see a problem with it out in the north forty
I think this is how it's supposed to work: on the California models there is a tube in the tank filler that is supposed to be a guide for refilling the tank. You're not supposed to fill beyond the bottom of the tube, which leaves some airspace at the top of the tank for the charcoal cannister vent to stay above fuel level.

That's why the fuel tank capacity is 3.4 gal for 49 states and 3.2 for California.

I've filled mine to the bottom of the tube, and a tad more without trouble. However on another vehicle I overfilled it and saturated the cannister so I'm wary of overfilling.
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