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Old 04-29-2013, 03:36 PM   #76231
spannerman
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Thanks guys so whats reason for it coming out i was thinking to much crankcase pressure blocked breather etc
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Old 04-29-2013, 03:41 PM   #76232
BergDonk
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Originally Posted by spannerman View Post
Thanks guys so whats reason for it coming out i was thinking to much crankcase pressure blocked breather etc
Some just do.

There is a pressurised oil feed right behind the seal. Oil comes from the pump to the space behind the seal, contained by the inner seal on the countershaft bearing, then into a hole in the countershaft for distribution to the gears.

Max oil pressure is when the oil is cold at startup. There is minimal crank pressure then, and even so, its shielded from crank pressure by the seal on the css bearing.

The seal is only retained by friction, so needs to be assembled dry. There is also a suggestion that some cases were machined a bit oversize and Suzuki have released an oversized seal, but dunno about that.
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Old 04-30-2013, 04:13 AM   #76233
arnold4
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Hello,

I have a plan to install kick start mechanism to my 93`dr650SE. Originally it has only electric start. Has anybody tried to do it? Tips, advices?

Tarmo
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Old 04-30-2013, 04:18 AM   #76234
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Originally Posted by BergDonk View Post
Some just do.

There is a pressurised oil feed right behind the seal. Oil comes from the pump to the space behind the seal, contained by the inner seal on the countershaft bearing, then into a hole in the countershaft for distribution to the gears.

Max oil pressure is when the oil is cold at startup. There is minimal crank pressure then, and even so, its shielded from crank pressure by the seal on the css bearing.

The seal is only retained by friction, so needs to be assembled dry. There is also a suggestion that some cases were machined a bit oversize and Suzuki have released an oversized seal, but dunno about that.
Thanks only thing that worries me is will just push a different seal out if i fit plate one thing i am wondering is did i push seal in to far ????????
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Old 04-30-2013, 05:38 AM   #76235
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I got a couple questions the other day that I can't answer so I figured I would ask here:

A couple of the bearings inside the cases have dust seals on them. Why are they retained inside the motor and what will happen if they are removed?

The only thing I could think of is related to circuit pressure? Couldn't think of any real downside other than maybe reduced pressure but I would assume the bearings would get enough oil on them through spray...

Should I tell the guy to take his motor back out and apart or will he be ok?

Thanks.
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Old 04-30-2013, 06:48 AM   #76236
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Originally Posted by rch10007 View Post
A couple of the bearings inside the cases have dust seals on them. Why are they retained inside the motor and what will happen if they are removed?
Should I tell the guy to take his motor back out and apart or will he be ok?
The seals on those bearings cause oil from the oil pump to be directed through passages in the transmission shafts. Installing unsealed bearings will allow the oil to just flow through the bearing and drain into the bottom of the case instead of being channeled to the inside of the transmission gears and to the clutch. If somebody put their motor together without the bearing seals they are risking premature transmission and clutch failure.
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Old 04-30-2013, 06:49 AM   #76237
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Originally Posted by Indytriumph View Post
Just wanted to say Hi. I have been a lurker for many years. I picked up a 96 DR650 two years ago and I am having a blast with it. My main mode of transportation has been a DL650 with 170,000 miles on it.

Tom

I run the same 5.11 vest. It's better than the m/c specific vests, IMHO.
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Old 04-30-2013, 06:57 AM   #76238
rch10007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by procycle View Post
The seals on those bearings cause oil from the oil pump to be directed through passages in the transmission shafts. Installing unsealed bearings will allow the oil to just flow through the bearing and drain into the bottom of the case instead of being channeled to the inside of the transmission gears and to the clutch. If somebody put their motor together without the bearing seals they are risking premature transmission and clutch failure.
This is what I was thinking too...

Can you confirm which bearings the seals are installed and which orientation? On second thought, I think all the bearings are different sizes, aren't they? I know the inner output shaft bearing has a seal that faces the right side but I don't remember the other one. Maybe the outer input shaft with the seal facing the outside of the motor? It's been too long that I had my motor apart that I don't recall exactly but hate to give out wrong info.

Thanks again!
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Old 04-30-2013, 07:00 AM   #76239
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Originally Posted by spannerman View Post
...only thing that worries me is will just push a different seal out if i fit plate...
It won't push anywhere else. The countershaft seal is the only external seal that has oil pressure behind it.
Go to the last two posts on this page. --> http://drriders.com/topic6662-70.html
There are photos of the oil passages and an explanation of the oil flow to the transmission with a flow diagram for the oil distribution. You'll have to click on the diagram and enlarge it to see.
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Old 04-30-2013, 07:02 AM   #76240
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Originally Posted by rch10007 View Post
This is what I was thinking too...

Can you confirm which bearings the seals are installed and which orientation? On second thought, I think all the bearings are different sizes, aren't they? I know the inner output shaft bearing has a seal that faces the right side but I don't remember the other one. Maybe the outer input shaft with the seal facing the outside of the motor? It's been too long that I had my motor apart that I don't recall exactly but hate to give out wrong info.

Thanks again!
The bearings are all different sizes. The oil seals face outward - away from the transmission gears.
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Old 04-30-2013, 07:11 AM   #76241
rch10007
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Originally Posted by procycle View Post
The bearings are all different sizes. The oil seals face outward - away from the transmission gears.
Gotcha. Just 2 bearings use the seals, right?
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Old 04-30-2013, 07:50 AM   #76242
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Originally Posted by procycle View Post
It won't push anywhere else. The countershaft seal is the only external seal that has oil pressure behind it.
Go to the last two posts on this page. --> http://drriders.com/topic6662-70.html
There are photos of the oil passages and an explanation of the oil flow to the transmission with a flow diagram for the oil distribution. You'll have to click on the diagram and enlarge it to see.
Thanks for that you clearly understand the dr 650 more than me would you ship the retainer to uk i have paypal account if that makes payment easyier ????

Thanks Will

spannerman screwed with this post 04-30-2013 at 08:06 AM
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Old 04-30-2013, 07:51 AM   #76243
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BTW, this is the cliff jumping DR made famous by my crash video. After scores of hours, I finally got it running this weekend and then this freak incident happened two hours into my first shakedown ride.
Joe,

What was the issue? My wife got a big kick out of chatting with your wife, on FB (all to the detriment of their common friend Steve).
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Old 04-30-2013, 08:50 AM   #76244
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Joe,

What was the issue? My wife got a big kick out of chatting with your wife, on FB (all to the detriment of their common friend Steve).
Apparently, it was a stretched choke cable. Oops I mean fuel enrichment circuit cable.

Friday morning I trucked the bike up to my friend Darrell's place. He was my TAT riding partner and also has a DR650. There I began swapping known good parts from his bike to mine. At one point my bike had his IMS tank, fuel line, carburetor, ignition coil, CDI module, regulator/rectifier, diode and battery. Nothing made a difference, so I swapped it all back. At one point I mentioned the only thing we didn't swap related to the fuel system was the choke cable, but we dismissed it because the choke seemed to work fine. It would make the bike easier to start when cold and the RPMs would noticeably drop when choke was closed as bike warmed up. And although we noticed adjustment nuts on the cable sheath, there was no mention of cable adjustment in the service manual.

I was ready to load the bike back into the van and head home, but had to wait until some contractors finished up and moved their truck. While waiting I killed some time adjusting Darrell's air/fuel mixture screw. Then still twiddling my thumbs, I decided to take a closer look at the choke cable.

First I looked at the adjustment on Darrell's, and adjusted mine the same, which l think shortened the cable sheath. No change in the bike. Then I went in the opposite direct to lengthen the cable sheath. At first it ran a bit worse and I didn't think it was even going to make it back up the hill. Then something happened and the bike took off. No more stumbling or bucking.

My guess is that the cable was stretched when the handle bars were hammered in the crash and the plunger at the end of the cable wasn't fully closing in the carb when I closed the choke. A small part of me isn't convinced that accounts for the problem, but since it was the last thing I adjusted, I'll accept it for now.
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Old 04-30-2013, 10:07 AM   #76245
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Originally Posted by rch10007 View Post
Gotcha. Just 2 bearings use the seals, right?
3 bearings - both left side transmission bearings and the right side bearing on the countershaft.
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