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Old 06-20-2013, 07:56 PM   #77776
nigelcorn
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Location: Henderson, NV
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gravetter View Post
6'3 185 lbs, plan on riding single track in my backyard with the nephews (going very slow). ADV rides which will consist of 40% gravel and dirt roads, 30% highway and 30% single/jeep trails. Planning numerous 2-3 day rides which means I will be packing my gear (~30lbs) doing the above type riding.

Owned a 2005 KLR and did a few weekend rides. My opinion was it was too big, heavy and lethargic.

Budget is ~$3500.

Shooting from the hip, DRZ400, DR650 or be patient and find a TE610?
I know others have given their opinion. I've owned a couple KLR's, a really well set up DRZ, and a well set up DR. Haven't tried the 610 yet.

My opinion--I think the DRZ is over-rated. I know it's a better off-road bike than the DR, but it feels to me about 15% better off-road, but the DRZ is like 40% worse on road (if that makes sense). I don't think it is good enough off-road to make up for its on-road manners. If you want something better for single-track, you could definitely do better than the DR, but it's a great do-it-all bike. If you are really planning on mostly single-track--get something else. If you want one bike to do it all, the DR650 is great. It can do single track better than you'd imagine, but it can also do several hundred miles on the highway better than you'd imagine as well. It's a great compromise between dirt and street.
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Old 06-20-2013, 08:47 PM   #77777
ER70S-2
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Originally Posted by Krusty ... View Post
Thanks for compiling those ... Saved for future reference . Love seeing the DR in action...


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Originally Posted by psmcd View Post
Yea, someone like Rolf Tibblin. Big, tough and talented.


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I even got to train with him ........
So, yer old too......
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I really enjoy the DR650 but treat it with due respect.


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Originally Posted by Phloid View Post
+1 http://www.procycle.us/bikepages/dr650.html

Cut up your credit card now... just do it.

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"BTW, I don't do style. It's a dirt bike, not some girlie dress-up thing." -
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Old 06-20-2013, 08:49 PM   #77778
TinMan207
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Volt meter reads Lower at higher RPM than at Idle

I have one of those nifty Numeric readout volt meters on my dash. Thought it was a good idea with Heated grips and other Plug-in stuff.

At Idle (1500-1600 RPMs) the volt meter reads 13.6 to 13.8 with nothing turned on or plugged in. Running down the road (say 3-5k RPMs) it is actually Lower Voltage, say around 13.2-13.4.

Now, I know this is telling me that it's charging, but I was always under the impression that it would charge more at higher RPMs.

Do I misunderstand and this normal behavior or should I start poking around the electrical system? And Since I'm not much of a mechanic (especially where wires are concerned) where should I start looking?

Thanks in advance for any feedback
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Old 06-20-2013, 09:21 PM   #77779
GSF1200S
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TinMan207 View Post
I have one of those nifty Numeric readout volt meters on my dash. Thought it was a good idea with Heated grips and other Plug-in stuff.

At Idle (1500-1600 RPMs) the volt meter reads 13.6 to 13.8 with nothing turned on or plugged in. Running down the road (say 3-5k RPMs) it is actually Lower Voltage, say around 13.2-13.4.

Now, I know this is telling me that it's charging, but I was always under the impression that it would charge more at higher RPMs.

Do I misunderstand and this normal behavior or should I start poking around the electrical system? And Since I'm not much of a mechanic (especially where wires are concerned) where should I start looking?

Thanks in advance for any feedback
So do I, and that seems like an issue. On mine it is the same thing as yours at idle, but goes up to 14.6 v when running on highway. I have an upgraded stator and regulator though, so perhaps that's why? I am under the impression the regulator shunts excess amperage to ground to avoid overcharging (converting it to heat which must be dissipated hence an upgraded regulator when using an upgraded stator).
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Old 06-20-2013, 09:33 PM   #77780
GSF1200S
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Originally Posted by nigelcorn View Post
I know others have given their opinion. I've owned a couple KLR's, a really well set up DRZ, and a well set up DR. Haven't tried the 610 yet.

My opinion--I think the DRZ is over-rated. I know it's a better off-road bike than the DR, but it feels to me about 15% better off-road, but the DRZ is like 40% worse on road (if that makes sense). I don't think it is good enough off-road to make up for its on-road manners. If you want something better for single-track, you could definitely do better than the DR, but it's a great do-it-all bike. If you are really planning on mostly single-track--get something else. If you want one bike to do it all, the DR650 is great. It can do single track better than you'd imagine, but it can also do several hundred miles on the highway better than you'd imagine as well. It's a great compromise between dirt and street.
Interesting. I'll have to find someone willing to bike swap for a day and see if I find that to be true with the DRz.

The te610 was on my list too, but it was hard to find and I would have already had to swap the cam chain (from what I understand) and possibly the rollers (?) once on my current trip. Also, never underestimate the importance of a strong subframe. I only carry 50lbs on this trip, but I've had up to 70 carrying a tire and extra fuel etc down washboard roads and rocky trails- never an issue. I'm not sure a 610 could do that.. I wouldn't worry about 3rd gear though (ducks behind wall). It all comes down to what you want really. I can endure much strife on the road, but I can't make weight go away off road. This is why I've considered a drz, ktm690, wr250r, etc. That said, I'm a traveler and I use a bikes dirt performance to get me to places many will never see- the DR is great for that, and it will play dirt bike or road bike OK. I think the KTM 690 is possibly the best dual sport at this point, but I don't like things I can't fix..
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Old 06-20-2013, 09:52 PM   #77781
JagLite
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Eh? Not drug pushers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Escaped View Post
I get my stuff from:

http://www.procycle.us/bikepages/dr650.html

And.

http://www.kientech.com/DR650ProdList.htm

Both great suppliers.

Gosh sounds like I am pushing drugs
Not "drugs" mate,

"DR-ugs"

Or maybe "DR-ughs" since our credit cards make us say UGH! hen we get the monthly statement .
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Old 06-20-2013, 10:00 PM   #77782
procycle
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Location: Center of the DR650 universe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TinMan207 View Post
At Idle (1500-1600 RPMs) the volt meter reads 13.6 to 13.8 with nothing turned on or plugged in. Running down the road (say 3-5k RPMs) it is actually Lower Voltage, say around 13.2-13.4.
That is normal behavior. The OEM stators in most street going motorcycles are optimized for maximum output at or just above idle speed. The reason is the output curve drops slowly above the peak output rpm but drops off steeply below the peak rpm. The factories want it to be able to charge the battery in slow city traffic.
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www.procycle.us - Everything for your DR650 and lots of other great stuff!
DR900 Big Bore Stroker buildup
TurboDiesel Corvette - go to the end to start at the beginning
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Old 06-20-2013, 10:08 PM   #77783
GSF1200S
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Quote:
Originally Posted by procycle View Post
That is normal behavior. The OEM stators in most street going motorcycles are optimized for maximum output at or just above idle speed. The reason is the output curve drops slowly above the peak output rpm but drops off steeply below the peak rpm. The factories want it to be able to charge the battery in slow city traffic.
So what's the difference with the aftermarket one you guys sell? If it puts out more wattage than stock and wattage is a calculation of amperage vs voltage, with more volts at higher rpms is it also moving more amperage? I would assume so since the amount of current is what matters so long as its supplied in the right voltage form. And how does rewiring the stator affect output for the better?
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Old 06-20-2013, 10:15 PM   #77784
ER70S-2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JagLite View Post
Not "drugs" mate,

"DR-ugs"

Or maybe "DR-ughs" since our credit cards make us say UGH! Then we get the monthly statement .
I got slapped with sticker shock today. Buying toys is a lot more fun than paying for them.

DR: $800
Gunz: $2400. Everybody needs at least one scoped AR-15 and another high capacity pistol; right?
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2013 WR250R

SUZUKI DR650SE INFORMATION INDEX
Quote:
Originally Posted by Threewheelbonnie View Post
"BTW, I don't do style. It's a dirt bike, not some girlie dress-up thing." -
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Old 06-20-2013, 10:26 PM   #77785
Adv Grifter
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Location: Passing ADV Stalkers in California
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GSF1200S View Post
As someone who is doing a long trip on the Dr, I can say its a compromise bike. There are times I wish I had my Bandit for the power, times I wish I had an Electra glide for the seat, times I wish I had a KTM 450 for nasty offroad, etc. But, I've been using it for everything. I will say if you are going to climb any loose terrain or rocky terrain, you need a knobby rear, because once that weight loses momentum, you're turning around.
With good technique and proper tire pressures I find the DR climbs OK with 50/50 tires. But NOT in mud. Momentum is key, as you've noted. The way to maintain it is to pick good lines, be in the right gear and LOOK WAY UP THE HILL. It works. But it's not a KTM 450, but sure beats the KTM on a long ride.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GSF1200S View Post
Plenty of guys have more skill and are better than me off road, but it has worked for me. I might try a drz with a nova gear set, and see if I like it. That said, the 650 already has low power/torque compared to a road bike, so a 400 might be a bit much. I think a dr790 might be my best bet.
Even at just 37 HP I find I can keep up with most of the guys in my riding groups riding GS's, KTM 990's, 1200 Tenere's and Tiger Explorers. If the pace goes over 90 mph, (which it does from time to time) then I fall back a bit. But up to 80 mph I'm fine. In the twisties no problems keeping up. Off road? ... I leave them behind if things get loose or rough. Trade offs.

I've ridden 500 mile days with guys on DRZ400's. They struggle and are positively BEAT at days end ... even with a Renazco seat. Our DRZ guys have sold them (3 or 4 riders). They are better than the DR650 off road, in sand and mud and rocky terrain, but not close on highway.

More Power? I'd recommend the Husqvarna Terra or Strada to replace your DR650. Faster, smoother. Apparently reliable. Will soon be in short supply.
Buy it now.
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Old 06-20-2013, 10:30 PM   #77786
ER70S-2
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Originally Posted by Adv Grifter View Post
More Power? I'd recommend the Husqvarna Terra or Strada to replace your DR650. Faster, smoother. Apparently reliable.

Will soon be in short supply.
As will parts and aftermarket support.
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2004 DR650: 62,400 miles
2013 WR250R

SUZUKI DR650SE INFORMATION INDEX
Quote:
Originally Posted by Threewheelbonnie View Post
"BTW, I don't do style. It's a dirt bike, not some girlie dress-up thing." -
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Old 06-20-2013, 11:09 PM   #77787
procycle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GSF1200S View Post
So what's the difference with the aftermarket one you guys sell? If it puts out more wattage than stock and wattage is a calculation of amperage vs voltage, with more volts at higher rpms is it also moving more amperage? I would assume so since the amount of current is what matters so long as its supplied in the right voltage form. And how does rewiring the stator affect output for the better?
I'm no electrical engineer so I can't really give you a good answer. The high output stator is obviously designed with different parameters in mind than the stocker. Yes, it produces more current to deliver more watts.

With the regulator out of the picture the stator will by itself will put out higher voltage with higher RPM but the current falls off at the same time.

The stock stator can be reconfigured to make higher output by connecting it in a delta rather then the standard wye. This boosts the output but moves the peak up a few hundred RPM.
Read about it here --> http://www.procycle.us/info/articles...ta-stator.html
I did this as an experiment to learn about charging systems. It worked OK but the aftermarket stator is better that a hacked stock one.
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Clarke's second law of Egodynamics: "For every expert, there is an equal and opposite expert." - Jasper Fforde
www.procycle.us - Everything for your DR650 and lots of other great stuff!
DR900 Big Bore Stroker buildup
TurboDiesel Corvette - go to the end to start at the beginning

procycle screwed with this post 06-20-2013 at 11:16 PM
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Old 06-21-2013, 03:29 AM   #77788
Thumper Dan
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Location: Australia, Northern NSW
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adv Grifter View Post
With good technique and proper tire pressures I find the DR climbs OK with 50/50 tires. But NOT in mud. Momentum is key, as you've noted. The way to maintain it is to pick good lines, be in the right gear and LOOK WAY UP THE HILL. It works. But it's not a KTM 450, but sure beats the KTM on a long ride.
I took out my DR650 in the deep dark (wet) forest the other day and considering it has close to a bald knobby; it performed better than expected. The trails have been used mainly by 4wd's and are deeply rutted, steep with intermittent mud patches.

During the course of the day, I stopped a quarter of the way up a 50 to 60ft hill, after gently dropping the bike. I looked what was ahead of me which was a very steep section & believing needed a run up to get up the remainder of the hill. However, I reflected and thought of a different strategy and attempted to ride up without speed. The DR650 just putted up this beasty hill like the tractor it is.

Admittedly it wasn't muddy and having a bald rear tyre, would have been impossible. But nonetheless the dynamic ability the DR presents, is the great all rounder.

I do have my suspension upgraded (hence the reason I was out there, to test it all out) and I reckon I could nearly keep up with some of the other smaller bikes, although my forearms were killing me a couple of hours into the riding, trying to hold this heavish bike up. But I got to cruise home on the open road without revving the holy crap out of it (14 tooth front sprocket)

If this is what it can do in pretty rough conditions, I'm a happy chappy.
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Old 06-21-2013, 03:51 AM   #77789
xKLR_John
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That's true, but if your technique isn't that hot, you're on a bad line, and you start losing momentum, the knobbier rear tire can hook up and bail you out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adv Grifter View Post
With good technique and proper tire pressures I find the DR climbs OK with 50/50 tires. But NOT in mud. Momentum is key, as you've noted. The way to maintain it is to pick good lines, be in the right gear and LOOK WAY UP THE HILL. It works. But it's not a KTM 450, but sure beats the KTM on a long ride.
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Old 06-21-2013, 04:34 AM   #77790
thump!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GSF1200S View Post
So what's the difference with the aftermarket one you guys sell? If it puts out more wattage than stock and wattage is a calculation of amperage vs voltage, with more volts at higher rpms is it also moving more amperage? I would assume so since the amount of current is what matters so long as its supplied in the right voltage form. And how does rewiring the stator affect output for the better?
Motorcycle Charging Systems 101:
Power (watts) is the product of voltage (volts) and current (amps). The generator (stator and rotor) puts out alternating current that increases in voltage and frequency with engine speed. The voltage regulator/rectifier converts AC to direct current and limits voltage to around 14 VDC (13.5-14.5) Some or all of the output of the VR/R is consumed by the "load" i.e. the electrical components on the bike and keeping the battery charged. The "system" has a maximum power output limited primarily by the capacity of stator. Unlike an automotive alternator which has a feedback system to control output, the bike's generator operates at maximum capacity for a given speed all the time. When the output exceeds the load the excess power is wasted as heat by the VR/R. OTOH, when the load exceeds the output (idle, slow riding, too many lights etc) the battery provides current to supplement the generator output. Obviously the system can operate in "deficit" state only as long as the battery can provide supplemental current. FWIW My Suzukis (currently 5) all intermittently dip into deficit state when waiting at a traffic signal with brake light and turn signals on. A higher output charging system can accomodate a larger load before draining the battery.
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