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Old 09-03-2013, 11:17 AM   #80911
ER70S-2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Foot dragger View Post
I know the current "thing" on here is to buy the DDC's to replace those darn emulators.

But,the Emulators are fully tunable and work fine,once dialed in for your use they can be made to work great. Trying to dial in bike suspension when the bike gets used,for rocks/fireroads/smooth trails/pavement,like many dualsport bikes get used for, is a little tricky to say the least.
Especially with some of the cheapest forks known to man.
I agree completely and tried to make that point. From my DRRiders post "I removed a known good suspension upgrade with a long history of success, on a whim."

I try not to encourage the many riders that must have the newest and best of anything that appears on the internet, whether they can afford it or not.

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Old 09-03-2013, 11:19 AM   #80912
motolab
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adv Grifter View Post
I would let a PRO do this for you .... and pay close attention so you can do it correctly next time.
Why not buy a chain press or chain press plates for your breaker/riveter?

Regards,

Derek
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Old 09-03-2013, 11:49 AM   #80913
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Originally Posted by Adv Grifter View Post
Doing it by feel is fine ... if you've done this sort of thing before. The key here is using a bit of BLUE LOC TITE on the bolts. This way, the bolts do not need to be all that tight. The Loc Tite will hold all secure.

The plate fits into slots, then turns to lock in place once bolts are in.
And YES ... slight sprocket movement is NORMAL.

Do you have the sprocket facing the "right way" ?
yes, the raised side towards the bike.
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Old 09-03-2013, 12:03 PM   #80914
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Originally Posted by motolab View Post
Why not buy a chain press or chain press plates for your breaker/riveter?

Regards,

Derek
A good chain tool certainly makes the job easier ... but I've seen inexperienced guys TOTALLY screw up despite the good chain tools. It's still technique and experience at the front and knowing HOW TO USE those tools.

Nothing wrong with taking a lesson from an expert first time around ... and avoid the several caveats on the next go-round.
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Old 09-03-2013, 12:10 PM   #80915
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Originally Posted by DockingPilot View Post
I think that honor belongs to the F800 Beemer. Complete rubbish.
Lol


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Maybe,I had an 07 Triumph Scrambler,figured out it had the same forks as a bottom of the barrel Harley,easily the crappiest modern fork Ive tried,flexed like rubber under braking enough to where I would have to stop and kick them straight.
Kicked/juddered and banged over most any bump.

But a nice looking bike.
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Old 09-03-2013, 12:18 PM   #80916
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adv Grifter View Post
A good chain tool certainly makes the job easier ... but I've seen inexperienced guys TOTALLY screw up despite the good chain tools. It's still technique and experience at the front and knowing HOW TO USE those tools.

Nothing wrong with taking a lesson from an expert first time around ... and avoid the several caveats on the next go-round.
Many of us have installed master links for years,and we have our own technique that works.

For a newbie,maybe googling a video of it,and trying it with one or two spare masterlinks would be the thing to do.

I make sure the plate is on far enough so the clip will fit,then I line it up just so,and pop it in place with a straight tap from a sharp screwdriver,it has to be pushed on straight,maybe finished with vice grips.

Its one thing that if done wrong might last a while but can fly off when you least expect it.

Always,Always,have a spare masterlink in the kit on the bike,one that fits your chain preferably.
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Old 09-03-2013, 12:24 PM   #80917
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adv Grifter View Post
A good chain tool certainly makes the job easier ... but I've seen inexperienced guys TOTALLY screw up despite the good chain tools. It's still technique and experience at the front and knowing HOW TO USE those tools.
Using a chain press mostly eliminates the possibility of pressing the plate on crooked, so that leaves over- or under-pressing. This can be avoided by pressing in small increments once nearly home and measuring frequently with a caliper (the goal being that the width matches the adjacent links).

Regards,

Derek
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Old 09-03-2013, 12:26 PM   #80918
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Originally Posted by Foot dragger View Post
I make sure the plate is on far enough so the clip will fit,then I line it up just so,and pop it in place with a straight tap from a sharp screwdriver,it has to be pushed on straight,maybe finished with vice grips.
What is a vice grip?

Regards,

Derek
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Old 09-03-2013, 01:01 PM   #80919
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You could go with the brand name http://www.irwin.com/tools/brands/vise-grip

Or a generic locking plier, some sold by Pedantic Enterprises, Inc.
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Old 09-03-2013, 01:12 PM   #80920
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I like what you did there.
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Old 09-03-2013, 01:14 PM   #80921
Adv Grifter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Foot dragger View Post
Especially with some of the cheapest forks known to man.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DockingPilot View Post
I think that honor belongs to the F800 Beemer. Complete rubbish.
Lol
Funny that BMW did not make ONE CHANGE to F800GS suspension despite the forums being overloaded with complaints about those nasty Showa (correction: Marzochi) forks. What is UP with that? You can see just buy looking, the GS forks are too small for a bike that big heavy (500 lbs.) I thought sure BMW would go with a big WP 50mm fork on that bike. At $15,000 ... it should have premium suspension, IMO.

The Kayaba (KYB) forks on the DR650 are a damper rod design still used by many current bikes. I would not call them "CHEAP". First off ... Suzuki had the vision (with good advice from Rodney Smith, who helped develop the "new" DR back in 1995) to up grade to beefy 43mm fork. This was a Motocross size fork back then, so quite a big step up. But Honda led the way and forced Suzuki's hand with similar forks on it's XR650L, introduced on 1992.

Look at what the KLR uses (smaller KYB) ... and F650's BMW's crap 39mm Showa fork that can snap right off the bike! Now THOSE are cheap forks! I've never heard of a DR650 fork breaking off the bike. The KLR forks are also under sized for such a heavy bike, IMO. Perhaps the "new" ('08 onward) KLR went bigger?

Sure, the KYB internals on the DR forks are a old design by modern race standards, but the basic fork is high quality, good sized tubes, plenty of travel for a dual sport ... and if set up correctly (as you documented in your post!) it's not half bad for a Dual Sport bike.

Will it match the plushness / performance of current Big Piston 48mm forks or SSF (separate fork function) or Kayaba's latest 48mm PSF forks (pneumatic spring fork) used on current Moto Cross bikes? All these latest innovations out pace the DR KYB item by a mile. But then, most of us aren't jumping triples or hitting the whoops at 60 mph.

As noted above: Proper set up and fine tuning are everything. No one set of valves can work a miracle by itself. It's getting the perfect combo of spring rate, preload, valve (either Race Tech or DDC), oil weight & height ... all matched to rider weight and skill level/riding style.

With Race tech, you can use the various valve springs on the valve for weight/riding style ... so even more tuning. Which valve is better? Only time will determine this one.

All this "fine tuning" involves fiddling. But once it's set up ... you should only ever have to change fork oil once every year or two.

Adv Grifter screwed with this post 09-03-2013 at 04:38 PM
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Old 09-03-2013, 01:42 PM   #80922
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Quote:
Originally Posted by motolab View Post
Using a chain press mostly eliminates the possibility of pressing the plate on crooked, so that leaves over- or under-pressing. This can be avoided by pressing in small increments once nearly home and measuring frequently with a caliper (the goal being that the width matches the adjacent links).

Regards,

Derek
Well, sitting here at the pub after trying for 45 min to get the master link on with the washer method, I am giving in and buying a chain tool.
Looking at this one:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000WJEIZM/...SIN=B000WJEIZM
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Old 09-03-2013, 01:48 PM   #80923
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Those F800 things they call suspension forks are "Zokes". The big problem is not only are they crap but BMW spec'd them so they couldnt even be modified or improved and they hydro lock bad. To improve them you have to gut them. I tried everything there was in 08' when the bike was a new model to improve the fork. Not sure about now but then it was slim pickins.
The DR forks are even better then the Zokes on my 610 which also were like two 2x4's.
I'm not a fan of Marzochi forks that's for sure.


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Old 09-03-2013, 02:09 PM   #80924
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Originally Posted by newride View Post
Well, sitting here at the pub after trying for 45 min to get the master link on with the washer method, I am giving in and buying a chain tool.
Looking at this one:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000WJEIZM/...SIN=B000WJEIZM
You may want to get a combo breaker & press tool so you can easily drive a pin out when it's time to replace the chain. As others have said, it's really a good idea to use a rivet style link, so you may as well get a combo breaker, press & rivet tool.

Regards,

Derek
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Old 09-03-2013, 02:16 PM   #80925
Adv Grifter
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Originally Posted by TrophyHunter View Post
You could go with the brand name http://www.irwin.com/tools/brands/vise-grip

Or a generic locking plier, some sold by Pedantic Enterprises, Inc.


The pedant strikes again!
Christ on a Rubber crutch Derek ... give it a frickin' rest! There are AT LEAST a half dozen companies using the Vice Grip name.

Did you buy yourself a DR650 yet? Hopefully one that needs a new chain and sprockets. Have at it my man ... lets see how you do!
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