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Old 07-04-2008, 02:47 PM   #14971
racer 07
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Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by AndrewL
No... 40wt oil is 40wt at 100C.


Viscosity is determined by how long it takes for a fixed volume of oil to flow through a fixed orifice at a given temperature. The cold crank viscosity, indicated by the "W", is measured at lower temperatures (which are on a sliding scale depending on the viscosity rating). In the case of 10W40, it is 40wt at 100C and equivalent to a 10wt at -25C.
A multigrade reduces viscosity as it heats up in the same way as a straight grade will, but the temperature/viscosity curve has been modified by the addition of viscosity improvers.

Cheers
I think maybe we're saying the same thing in a different way. Are you saying cold oil would have less drag than hot oil?
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Old 07-04-2008, 03:18 PM   #14972
AndrewL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by racer 07
I think maybe we're saying the same thing in a different way. Are you saying cold oil would have less drag than hot oil?
No, I am saying the same thing as Klay... and no. :)

AndrewL screwed with this post 07-04-2008 at 03:28 PM
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Old 07-04-2008, 03:32 PM   #14973
racer 07
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndrewL
No... 40wt oil is 40wt at 100C.


Viscosity is determined by how long it takes for a fixed volume of oil to flow through a fixed orifice at a given temperature. The cold crank viscosity, indicated by the "W" (for Winter), is measured at lower temperatures (which are on a sliding scale depending on the viscosity rating). In the case of 10W40, it is 40wt at 100C and equivalent to a 10wt at -25C.
A multigrade viscosity reduces as it heats up in the same way as a straight grade will, but the temperature/viscosity curve has been modified to reduce cold cranking viscosity by the addition of viscosity improvers.

Cheers
OK! Just read this again slowly. I'm slow. Took time to process. Reading skill limited. 40wt@100=10wt@-25c Got it. Thanks My understanding was 10-40wt would not lose viscosity below 10wt with heat or age. For instance it would not go to 5wt when heated. I stand corrected.

racer 07 screwed with this post 07-04-2008 at 03:53 PM
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Old 07-04-2008, 03:38 PM   #14974
Navaho
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Location: Baton Rouge, LA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cowboy2
Being the 650 is air-cooled I switched from 10W-40 to a heavier weight 15W-50 for summer (the 15W-50 is a synthetic racing oil, the 10W-40 is not).

Anybody see any issues with this?

Cowboy2
From another source:

"What do the numbers and letters in a motor oil designation mean? Good question. Here's the answer.

First, there's a two-letter code indicating the type of detergent package that the manufacturer uses in the oil; this looks like SE, SF, CD or such. The S codes are for gasoline engine applications; the C codes are for diesel engine applications. The second letter is assigned in sequence as new levels of protection are developed; thus SF is considered better than SE, SE is considered better than SD, and so forth.

The more noticeable designation is the oil weight. This is either a single number (e.g., 30 weight) or a pair of numbers separated by the letter W (e.g., 10W30.) The latter type is much more commonly used these days, and are the only type that most automobile manufacturers specify in operators manuals. The first number in the designation (10W) is the apparent viscosity of the oil when it is cold; the W stands for `winter'. The second number (30) is the viscosity of the oil when hot. There is a trick here; the oil doesn't actually get thicker (turn from 10 weight to 30 weight) as it gets hotter. What is actually happening is that when the oil is cold, it has the viscosity of a cold 10 weight oil. as it gets hotter, it doesn't get thin as fast as a 10W oil would; by the time it is up to temperature, it has the viscosity of a hot 30 weight oil.

Note that these numbers actually specify ranges of viscosities; not all 10W oils have exactly the same viscosity when cold, and not all 30 weight oils have the same viscosity when hot. Also the behavior of multi-grade oils is caused by additives. "


I was swapping oils in the Summer/Winter but now I use one oil all year long. Rotella 5W-40 synthetic.

http://www.shell.com/home/Framework?...ellasynth.html

Navaho screwed with this post 07-04-2008 at 03:43 PM
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Old 07-04-2008, 03:53 PM   #14975
TaZ9
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DR650 gasket leak fix

A leak on the back of the right side (sitting) cylinder head is common as that is the narrow part of the gasket that surrounds the cam chain. If you look at a picture of the base gasket, you will see that the gasket is only about 1/4 wide where it faces the starter. This is the area that begins to weep. There are two small bolts on the right side of the head. Check them for proper torque, then remove the muffler so you have room to work. Carefully remove all the old "patch job" and rough up the area where the head and engine case meet with a small file.

Thoroughly clean the area with a good brand of degreaser and let it completely dry. Get some JB Weld expoxy (Wallyworld) and mix equal parts.
Using a thin flat piece of wood (popsicle stick/tongue depressor) apply a coat on the area and let set (15-20 min). Apply a second coat and let set overnight. You should be good to go. The main key here is to take your time. The area you are patching is about 3" along the joint beneath the cam tensioner.

I have the same problem on my '99 and this process worked perfect.

Ride Safe





Quote:
Originally Posted by vnp514
Looks like I need to update the gasket. One of the previous three owners tried a "patch job."



It didn't work:



Another angle of the "patch job."



The last owner ran synthetic oil in this machine. That oil is still in it. Before I tear into this thing, I may change oil and go with regular dino oil. There is an old wifes tale that says syenthetic oil can leak past gaskets. I don't think I believe that but WTH, I'll try it. I'll also try to loosen and then re-torque the head. If that don't work, looks like I'll have to pull the head off and change the gasket.

Question:

Right now it's just kind of weeping. I'd like to ride this thing out until the end of the riding season but I'm not sure if the leak will get worse. Any pointers here??

Thanks!!

Pete
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Old 07-04-2008, 03:56 PM   #14976
AndrewL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by racer 07
OK! Just read this again slowly. I'm slow. Took time to process. Reading skill limited. 40wt@100=10wt@-25c Got it. Thanks
10wt at -25C is still some fairly heavy goop to push around a cold engine so no 10wt at -25C does not equal 40wt at 100C (which is a fair bit thinner) remembering that viscosity increases as the temperature drops. 10W40 is equivalent to straight 10wt when both are at -25C. EDIT: 10W40 is also equivalent to a straight 40wt oil when both are at 100C.

This might seem like semantics... but your statement quoted above implies that viscosities are equal which is not the case.

Cheers

AndrewL screwed with this post 07-04-2008 at 04:11 PM
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Old 07-04-2008, 06:12 PM   #14977
doc_ricketts
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Location: FlaWaCo?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craig atkins
I have a 2006 Dr650 with 11000 miles and it just strated to seep oil on the right side. I noticed enough oil to run down onto the suzuki emblem on the oil filter cover. I have read that this might be from the cam chain tensioner gasket but haven't a clue where that is. Thanks for any help.
As somebody has already said, that is undoubtedly the source of the leak. Mine started (2006 DR) at 12,000 miles. Fixing is easy. You can put a new gasket on it by removing the tensioner assembly or you can do it even easier by just loosening the bolts and sliding the assembly back about 1/32" and gooping around the whole circumference with high temp silicone (Permatex Red). You will have to remove the oil pipe bolts so that you can get to the inside tensioner bolt, unless you make a special tool out of a short piece of hex key and a very skinny socket. I posted my results a few tens of pages back.
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Old 07-04-2008, 06:24 PM   #14978
doc_ricketts
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Quote:
Originally Posted by racer 07
Exactly. No oil gets thicker when it heats up. Also no multi-grade is a true synthetic.
There seems to a whole lot of confusion about modern motor oils. The best current synthetic oils are made from purely non-crude or highly processed crude derived complex olefins and esters which have much better shear and temperature breakdown characteristic than petroleum derived chain molecules. And multi weight construction of these oils is done by combining the molecules to provide the right viscosity at the widest temperature range. I personally use Amsoil full synthetic in my DR650 and in my diesel Dodge pickup and have had great success in both applications. Here is a section from Wiki on synthetic oils:
Synthetic Base Stocks

Synthetic motor oils have been made from the following classes of lubricants:
  • Polyalphaolefin (PAO) = American Petroleum Institute (API) Group IV base oil
  • Synthetic esters, etc = API Group V base oils (non-PAO synthetics, including diesters, polyolesters, alklylated napthlenes, alkyklated benzenes, etc.)
  • Hydrocracked/Hydroisomerized = API Group III base oils. Chevron, Shell, and other petrochemical companies developed processes involving catalytic conversion of feed stocks under pressure in the presence of hydrogen into high quality mineral lubricating oil. In 2005 production of GTL (Gas-to-liquid) Group III base stocks began. The best of these perform much like polyalphaolefin[citation needed]. Group III base stocks are considered synthetic motor oil in North America[1], but not in the European Union.
[edit] Advantages

The technical advantages of synthetic motor oils include:
  • Measurably better low and high temperature viscosity performance[citation needed]
  • Better chemical & shear stability
  • Decreased evaporative loss[citation needed]
  • Resistance to oxidation, thermal breakdown and oil sludge problems
  • Extended drain intervals with the environmental benefit of less oil waste.[citation needed]
  • Improved fuel economy in certain engine configurations.[citation needed]
  • Better lubrication on cold starts
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Old 07-04-2008, 07:18 PM   #14979
TheCowboy
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Motor Oils

Quote:
Originally Posted by doc_ricketts
There seems to a whole lot of confusion about modern motor oils. The best current synthetic oils are made from purely non-crude or highly processed crude derived complex olefins and esters which have much better shear and temperature breakdown characteristic than petroleum derived chain molecules. And multi weight construction of these oils is done by combining the molecules to provide the right viscosity at the widest temperature range. I personally use Amsoil full synthetic in my DR650 and in my diesel Dodge pickup and have had great success in both applications. Here is a section from Wiki on synthetic oils:
Synthetic Base Stocks

Synthetic motor oils have been made from the following classes of lubricants:
  • Polyalphaolefin (PAO) = American Petroleum Institute (API) Group IV base oil
  • Synthetic esters, etc = API Group V base oils (non-PAO synthetics, including diesters, polyolesters, alklylated napthlenes, alkyklated benzenes, etc.)
  • Hydrocracked/Hydroisomerized = API Group III base oils. Chevron, Shell, and other petrochemical companies developed processes involving catalytic conversion of feed stocks under pressure in the presence of hydrogen into high quality mineral lubricating oil. In 2005 production of GTL (Gas-to-liquid) Group III base stocks began. The best of these perform much like polyalphaolefin[citation needed]. Group III base stocks are considered synthetic motor oil in North America[1], but not in the European Union.
[edit] Advantages

The technical advantages of synthetic motor oils include:
  • Measurably better low and high temperature viscosity performance[citation needed]
  • Better chemical & shear stability
  • Decreased evaporative loss[citation needed]
  • Resistance to oxidation, thermal breakdown and oil sludge problems
  • Extended drain intervals with the environmental benefit of less oil waste.[citation needed]
  • Improved fuel economy in certain engine configurations.[citation needed]
  • Better lubrication on cold starts
WOW, I am confused now!

Cowboy2
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Old 07-04-2008, 07:38 PM   #14980
Rusty Rocket
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cowboy2
WOW, I am confused now!

Cowboy2
I just use Spectro-4 10w-40 It's worked for the last 30 years.
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Old 07-05-2008, 05:18 AM   #14981
EdM
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Horsepower

Sorry I'm late with this response:

In a test in the October 2007 issue of "Motorcycle Consumer News" they reported RWHP as 35.6 and torque as 33.3 lb/ft.

Ned
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Old 07-05-2008, 05:20 AM   #14982
EdM
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Horsepower

Sorry; I'm late with this response:

In a test in their October 2007 issue "Motorcycle Consumer News" reported RWHP as 35.6 and torgue as 33.3 lb/ft.

Ned
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Old 07-05-2008, 05:21 AM   #14983
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O.K.: now I'm sorry for the double post.

Did not think the first had gone through.

Ned
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Old 07-05-2008, 07:49 AM   #14984
Rusty Rocket
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35.6 is respectable. Is that stock carb, airbox & pipe? (almost as much as my 250)
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..1972 Penton Six-Days ..1971 Suzuki TS185.. 2005 KTM 400exc
Member of: AMA, NETRA, Blue Ribbon Coalition, CCCofVT, Berkshire TR, CT Ramblers
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Old 07-05-2008, 10:49 AM   #14985
shotglass
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Packed and ready to go

Packed and ready to go but I am leaving at 0500 tomorrow. Leaving Sacramento, Calif going along the coast thru Oregon and Washington then to Victoria Island BC, down to Mt. Rainier to Mt. St Helens to the Hood River back over to the Coast and then home. Over 2500 Miles in 12 days, not to mention some side trips!!!! Hope to meet some ADV riders along the way.
Chris

2008 DR650
IMS tank clear
Gel Seat with sheepskin and beads if necessary
Spitfire windscreen
heated gel grips
Bark Busters
Acerbis front fender
12 volt charging plug
16 tooth front sprocket
skid plate and case savers
ebay BBQ rack
ebay side racks with Rally Pro saddle bags
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