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Old 05-24-2006, 05:48 AM   #61
ysr612
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LC4 Pilot



In Hawaii, they race outriggers like these between the islands with some races being 50 or so miles long. I am hoping to do the Newport - Catalina race next year, which is a 31 mile race.

.
My brother lives in hawaii and there are lots of canoe clubs he builds canoes for one of them. He told me when they raced the long races that the power boat would go out in front of the canoe and dump people overboard. As the canoe crossed over these people at close to top speed they would hook the rigger with thier arm and swing on board pushing the one they are replacing out.
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Old 05-24-2006, 07:03 AM   #62
Marbleless
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Laugh Outrigger Paddling

Quote:
Originally Posted by LC4 Pilot
I think you might be just the guy to try it! It is light - 26 lbs. It's looooong though at just a few inches shy of 21 feet. You've gotta come paddle it some time. You of all people will appreciate it. Especially when riding some ocean rollers.

I will definitely take you up on trying out your outrigger. Always wanted to try one of those.

Maybe I'll bust out my Mitchell touring paddle and bring it along. Haven't used it since a sweet Boundary Waters wilderness canoe trip about 10-yrs ago.



Probably too long for being that close to the water though. It's somewhere in the neighborhood of 51"-53".
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Old 05-24-2006, 07:14 AM   #63
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I've built 5 strippers - 3 kayaks and 2 canoes. Here's a shot of the canoe I gave Jabba for his birfday a few years ago:


The boat in the foreground is our Nautiraid folding kayak - it's the GS of kayaks, an all-purpose boat for travelling. It's been everywhere - week-long trips up the Amazon, whitewater on the Snake, and even the subject of a search-and-rescue in the Fl. Keys over Y2K. Some great memories live in that boat:


Jabba liked it so much he got one too. Both boats have sailing rigs - here's Jabba trying his out for the first time:




Gonna have to scan some of my wooden kayak pics...
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Old 05-24-2006, 07:19 AM   #64
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Wink Boats-n-Bikes

Okay. Who wants to take their kayak adv-ing? 26-ft of high speed fun.



'83 Suzuki GS1100 Katana Pulling a '94 VCP RM Skerray, circa 1996


It was foreshadowing my board-on-GS days.


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Old 05-24-2006, 07:22 AM   #65
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Going to to the NOC http://www.noc.com/ this weekend, we'll see if I can get a pic.
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Old 05-24-2006, 07:43 PM   #66
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I started this post and don't have a boat yet. Maybe this weekend, I'm going to paddle a few demos.
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Old 05-24-2006, 08:17 PM   #67
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The Good Book Says...

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Originally Posted by 2whlrcr
I started this post and don't have a boat yet. Maybe this weekend, I'm going to paddle a few demos.
If you fall in, don't panic.

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Old 05-24-2006, 08:25 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ponq
Going to to the NOC http://www.noc.com/ this weekend, we'll see if I can get a pic.
I took a couple of white water Kayaking courses there a number of years back. Good people, and great paddling on a number of rivers nearby. The Ocoee was pretty fun as I recall. Did some rudimentary rodeo squirting in a nice hole there in the mid 90's.
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Old 05-24-2006, 09:10 PM   #69
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Here's a pic of my 'Raid. They're awesome boats, as Gringo said. I've now got single and dual paddle set ups, a kickass sail rig, and an electric motor for fishing...and you get to steer with your feet, which is kewel. All fits in a corner of the closet, folded up in bags. Since my corner of Maryland is damned near devoid of fresh water, I'm using the Nautiraid mostly in the salt these days- but I'm really looking forward to some river trips in Va and WV sometime this summer. The strip canoe he built me (fucking thing is ART- I worry about it constantly) is the most effecient one I've ever paddled. One stroke and it just glidesssssss. Not much for turning, but it's hard to beat on a calm day with a flyrod in your hand... take a stroke and work your way down the shore making several casts. Take another stroke. Problem with it is that you can't go anywhere with it on the car without being stopped by EVERYBODY to talk about it. Pull into a parking lot and the darned thing is like having a puppy.

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Old 05-25-2006, 02:28 AM   #70
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Can you tell me more about your 'Raid? What model do you guys have? Are they suitable for the ocean? How does the Klepper compare to them? I really like the idea of a foldable kayak, and the ability to add a sail is really cool too.

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Old 05-25-2006, 03:17 AM   #71
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Hi Errin. Collapsibles have been very popular up here for many years. My first kayak was actually a double Kepper. I remember what a PIA it was the first time I put it together but later could have it together in 15 min by myself. I always thought the Nautiraids were even harder to put together. I still have my double and have since bought a single Klepper too. They're so beautiful with great German craftsmanship. It's probably the ol first love thing! But I RARELY use them anymore tho, as I prefer the comfort and efficient paddling of a hardshell.

I also sold Feathercraft for years. I still think they're the best of the collapsibles if you got the money. Their expedition models are the hardest of all collapsibles to put together because the frame is tensioned into the skin under so much pressure. But this is what makes them such performers! The hanging seat also makes them pretty comfy. Plus they have a molded fiberglass cockpit coaming that helps them have the driest ride.

And there's a new company called Long Haul out of Colorodo. It was started by a guy who I hear was Klepper's main repairman for the US! They look pretty similar to Kleppers with some refinements.

There's always a few collapsibles for sale on our (REI) bulletin board every year. Actually I just turned a coworker on to one add there just a couple weeks ago for a double Klepper in great shape. He and his gf bought it for $600!!! That's a $4000 boat new! I've seen double Feathercrafts for $2000 and they're $5000 new.

Still awesome photos everyone! Thanks for sharing! MH
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Old 05-25-2006, 06:31 AM   #72
Gringo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ErrinV
Can you tell me more about your 'Raid? What model do you guys have? Are they suitable for the ocean? How does the Klepper compare to them? I really like the idea of a foldable kayak, and the ability to add a sail is really cool too.

Errin
We have two different models. Jabba's is the "Grand Raid' and is nearly identical to my 1967 Klepper in overall dimensions; it's the 'Mil Spec' boat of the french army (I hear they still have one). Mine is the 'Raid II Expedition', a bit shorter and wider (better sailor) and lower deck. I chose that one because my better half is very short of stature and the gunnels of the Klepper were nearly up to her armpits and made it hard to paddle; this one is ~3" lower at the coaming and fits her very well. It's also nice when we're off on a trip and I feel like going paddling solo - the slightly shorter boat is easy to maneuver (more rocker as well). The Grand Raid would be the better boat for long distances - longer hull, flatter keel line. Both sail very well.

The Raids are terrific boats - very similar to Kleppers but less than half the price when you tally up all that's included with them (spray deck and 2 skirts; solo or tandem seating positions built-in; deck attachments for paddles and anchor; lifeline all 'around; rudder) all of which are very pricey extras with the Kleppers. The quality of the boats is nearly identical; assembly is quite different. Kleppers have lots of little specialized fittings with lots of separate parts to pre-assemble to put 'em together. Raids have two large subassemblies and few parts beyond these; you basically unfold two large umbrellas, add a few extra parts to these and slip each into one end of the boat and press them together to stretch the skin; then drop in the floorboards, add three central ribs, assemble and mount the 4-pc coaming, inflate the sponsons, mount the rudder and you're good to go. The Kleppers are heavier, perhaps a tad more rugged, but I've beat the hell out of my Raid and it's stood up just fine. Both are very good in ocean as long as you're not gonna get into severe waves - if so I'd go with the Grand Raid or Klepper over the Raid II as it's flat and will wear you out rolling laterally across waves; the narrower boats tend to stay more upright in rough conditions. None of these boats can realistically be eskimo-rolled - though they are less likely to need it. If you want an athletic boat like that, check out Feathercraft - they make a Greenland-style solo boat that can be paddled like any hardshell. Feathercrafts take a long time to assemble tho (45 min perhaps) vs the <10min of the Raid, ~15min of the Klepper.

We've flown ours internationally several times and with 2 people travelling have never paid extra. Boat goes in 2 bags, ~35-40lbs per bag, and there's lots of room in each to add stuff like tent, sleeping pads, life jackets, collapsible boat cart, paddles & sails to get to max. weight for the airline; then you have another duffelbag with your clothes, sleeping bag, etc. Each person checks 2 bags, one boat and one personal, and when you get to where you're going you just hitch a ride to water, set up your boat and off you go. It's also nice for long trips - we drove cross-country to Yellowstone several years ago, and even though we were in a van with racks, it was nice for those long road days to have the racks and boat inside the vehicle under the seats, not generating turbulence on the roof cutting down gas mileage and making it hard to hold a conversation inside the car. When we got out west I mounted the racks and built up the boat and we drove around out west for 2 weeks with a boat on the roof, ready to drop into any body of water that looked inviting. For the trip home it all went back inside.

Oh, one last key point. The seats of the Klepper will torment you every moment you are in the boat. The Raid has inflatable seats and seatbacks; for long trips you fill them with drinking water and sit on your own little waterbed, and drink thru the fill tube. We've spent some very long days in that boat and the seats of the Raids are a blessing.

Terrific boats. Can't beat 'em.

If you're serious about getting a folder, pick up 'The Complete Folding Kayaker' by Ralph Diaz. It's the bible for these boats and will tell you all about the different ones available, as well as show lots of mods, sailing rigs, etc.
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Gringo screwed with this post 05-25-2006 at 06:48 AM
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Old 05-25-2006, 07:48 AM   #73
Marbleless
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Laugh Feathercrafts are Sexxxxxxxy

Collapsible boats are fun. One of my previous pix in this thread showed me putting together a 40-year old British Tyne folding boat that I took to the Arctic. Leaked a little, but hey, 40-years of abrasions on that boat.

If I get another kayak, it would be along the lines of the Feathercraft Khatsalano or a K1. Low initial stability and perhaps a challenge for a novice, but in the surf and on expeditions it should be the bomb. I'm a big fan of the West Greenland hull style. Great for rough water work.


Khatsalano Side


K1 Side


Khatsalano Top


K1 Top

http://www.feathercraft.com/home.html


Humina, humina, humina...



-M
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Old 05-25-2006, 08:02 AM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LC4 Pilot
I took a couple of white water Kayaking courses there a number of years back. Good people, and great paddling on a number of rivers nearby. The Ocoee was pretty fun as I recall. Did some rudimentary rodeo squirting in a nice hole there in the mid 90's.
Cool, I've been boating for about 5yrs now. I don't have the time or the money to take classes there, just meeting up with some people. I dislocated my shoulder about two years ago doing class 4-5 creeking in Arkansas. I should have used my playboat rather than someone elses creek boat. Lesson: Don't use someone elses boat if it doesn't fit you perfectly. I really haven't gotten back into it since then.
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Old 05-25-2006, 10:06 AM   #75
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Where can a noob go to get educated on these things?

Also, are there any that are made for bigger fellas?
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