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Old 05-29-2006, 05:34 PM   #16
Dukeryder OP
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chuckklr04
How was the steak?

Scoot runs great now below 50. Seems to be running lean and cuts out after running 70 for a bit.

I'm thinking float bowl set to low?





Pics of Duke on Naked scoot to follow.



boiled King crab,boiled shrimp,corn,taters,green bean's,Allaigator sause picauit,Tator salad,Steak,Etc.

Should have dropped by today!
griled gator,
Steak was awesome sounds like I missed out on some good food yesterday. I wouldn't have made it though after the night I had out on Saturday , we left F&Ms when it was daylight and I ended up spending the rest of the day recovering

I was thinking that maybe that one vac line that was initially kinked might need to be shortened up some; and if you could rig up the vacum system so that it only powered the fuel pump it might supply enough fuel to keep it from starving after running WFO. That'd sure be easier than having to mess with the inside of the carb.
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Old 05-29-2006, 09:11 PM   #17
chuckklr04
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Removed the carb today and the float was way too low. Moved it up.Now it's running too rich. Will get it straight soon.

Duke on a naked scoot!
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Old 05-29-2006, 09:18 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chuckklr04
Update ! Dukerider dropped and gave me lesson in vaccum hoses.Seems they left out a few when built.What I expected was true. Vac problems.

How was the steak?

Scoot runs great now below 50. Seems to be running lean and cuts out after running 70 for a bit.

I'm thinking float bowl set to low?





Pics of Duke on Naked scoot to follow.



boiled King crab,boiled shrimp,corn,taters,green bean's,Allaigator sause picauit,Tator salad,Steak,Etc.

Should have dropped by today!
griled gator,


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Old 10-01-2006, 02:35 PM   #19
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After much grief with this scooter I finally have it running right.

Replaced the vac fuel pump with an electric one. Runs great now. Put about 75 miles on it today (dropped by Coonass's place).

Going for another 40 mile spin in a moment.
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Old 10-02-2006, 07:54 AM   #20
Motomech
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I had a Loncin(Chinese)125 several years ago. The engine was not a copy of a Honda, Yamaha or Suzuki per/se, but looked to have taken elements from all three. It was slighly underbuilt(sm. header bolts, sm wheel brg.s, etc.), but was realible enough if care was taken during maintainence.
The paint was thin and scratched easily and the chrome rusted quickly.
It had a certain "flash" element, with pretty, sequenial floorboard and dash lighting.
In sum, not a bad scoot, but it lacked some of the substance of a Japanese model.
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Old 10-02-2006, 01:07 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dukeryder
I don't know jack about the off-brand scoots and don't want to get burned.
I didn't either ... been a Honda man for over 40 years. I have a Kymco BW 150. Photog recommended it highly. I have about 800 miles on it now (have to convert 'cause odometer measures in KM). So far, it runs like a champ. 75 mpg - cruises at 55 mph (easily). Liquid cooled. I hear that Kymco makes parts for Honda. The Kymco engine looks suspiciously like a Honda mill.

I still have my Honda 80 Elite ... 40 mph ... 130 mpg. The little bike is 18 years old ... uses almost no oil ... runs great. I keep that around as my "gas lines machine." If they pull the plug on gasoline, I will be mobile. The only problem that has ever bothered that scoot (at least one that I did not cause myself) has been the bistarter. I hate that damned thing. If I leave the scoot up for a week, while riding my BW, the bistarter sticks. It starts real good, but put on some gas and it dies. After awhile, I can get it cleared, but I sure would love to see a manual choke kit for that thing.

I understand being tentative about Chinese "off-brands." Some of them are undoubtedly crap, but I can remember when we Americans thought Japanese hardware was junk. Now we drive Toyotas with 250K miles on them.

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Old 10-02-2006, 04:24 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jtwo
I didn't either ... been a Honda man for over 40 years. I have a Kymco BW 150. Photog recommended it highly. I have about 800 miles on it now (have to convert 'cause odometer measures in KM). So far, it runs like a champ. 75 mpg - cruises at 55 mph (easily). Liquid cooled. I hear that Kymco makes parts for Honda. The Kymco engine looks suspiciously like a Honda mill.

I still have my Honda 80 Elite ... 40 mph ... 130 mpg. The little bike is 18 years old ... uses almost no oil ... runs great. I keep that around as my "gas lines machine." If they pull the plug on gasoline, I will be mobile. The only problem that has ever bothered that scoot (at least one that I did not cause myself) has been the bistarter. I hate that damned thing. If I leave the scoot up for a week, while riding my BW, the bistarter sticks. It starts real good, but put on some gas and it dies. After awhile, I can get it cleared, but I sure would love to see a manual choke kit for that thing.

I understand being tentative about Chinese "off-brands." Some of them are undoubtedly crap, but I can remember when we Americans thought Japanese hardware was junk. Now we drive Toyotas with 250K miles on them.

J2
Well, buy a new bi-starter then.
Actually, it's the easiest thing in the world to check, put 12 volts on it and watch it expand. I suspect that the starter circuitry(passageway) in the carb is dirty. That, and/or the the low-speed curcuit, which has a lot to do with starting.
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Old 10-03-2006, 10:07 AM   #23
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manual is better

Quote:
Originally Posted by Motomech
Well, buy a new bi-starter then.
Actually, it's the easiest thing in the world to check, put 12 volts on it and watch it expand. I suspect that the starter circuitry(passageway) in the carb is dirty. That, and/or the the low-speed curcuit, which has a lot to do with starting.
I had the carb cleaned, and I told the mech to pay special attention to the bistarter. That doesn't mean that he did it, of course. I would rather avoid the problem altogether by replacing the bistarter with a manual choke. The dealership where I bought my Kymco got tired of bistarter problems, which seem to occur anytime you leave the bike sitting up for a period of time. So, this dealership replaced all of the bistarters on their 50cc Kymcos with a manual choke kit. To start it cold, you slide a little graduated lever attached to the bars. It warms up, and you slide the little lever back ... no more little bistarter pistons to foul ... no more electrical connections to worry about. The choke kit used on the Kymcos was made for them. I am not aware of any such kits for a Honda 80 Elite.

J2
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Old 10-04-2006, 06:08 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jtwo
I had the carb cleaned, and I told the mech to pay special attention to the bistarter. That doesn't mean that he did it, of course. I would rather avoid the problem altogether by replacing the bistarter with a manual choke. The dealership where I bought my Kymco got tired of bistarter problems, which seem to occur anytime you leave the bike sitting up for a period of time. So, this dealership replaced all of the bistarters on their 50cc Kymcos with a manual choke kit. To start it cold, you slide a little graduated lever attached to the bars. It warms up, and you slide the little lever back ... no more little bistarter pistons to foul ... no more electrical connections to worry about. The choke kit used on the Kymcos was made for them. I am not aware of any such kits for a Honda 80 Elite.

J2
I had to make my own for a chinese scoot I had. I gutted the actuator and epoxied a cable into it, with a pull knob mounted outside the bodywork. Worked like a charm.
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Old 10-04-2006, 08:54 AM   #25
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choked

Sounds like a good project. I am somewhat mechanically capable (pulled the head on a Datsun B-210 once ... did all my own points, plugs and timing ... set the valve clearance on several Honda bikes), but repair/engineering doesn't come easily to me. I am a tech writer by trade. If Honda made a kit that substitutes a manual choke for the bistarter on the Elite 80, I would probably pay a friend, who is a Honda mechanic, to put it on for me.

J2
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Old 10-05-2006, 07:42 AM   #26
Motomech
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jtwo
I had the carb cleaned, and I told the mech to pay special attention to the bistarter. That doesn't mean that he did it, of course. I would rather avoid the problem altogether by replacing the bistarter with a manual choke. The dealership where I bought my Kymco got tired of bistarter problems, which seem to occur anytime you leave the bike sitting up for a period of time. So, this dealership replaced all of the bistarters on their 50cc Kymcos with a manual choke kit. To start it cold, you slide a little graduated lever attached to the bars. It warms up, and you slide the little lever back ... no more little bistarter pistons to foul ... no more electrical connections to worry about. The choke kit used on the Kymcos was made for them. I am not aware of any such kits for a Honda 80 Elite.

J2
I had a Scooter repair shop for ten years('83 to '93) and have worked on more Elite 80's than I care to remember, and trust me, there is no endemic problem with the Honda Bi-starter choke system.
Just because they said they got the carb clean, doesn't necessarily mean they got it clean. The internal passageways are so small and convoluted in the carb boby that it's takes skill and experience to get them clean and know that they are clean.
The first two things I would check are the fuel tank(is it clean and shinny inside?) and the setting of the low-speed mixture screw. Is it set at the default 1 1/2 turns out? This would indicate the tech. didn't spend much time on the job(The default setting usually isn't where it wants to end up). Then while I was there, I would readjust the low-speed mixture setting using the "idle drop" method. With the carb clean and properly adjusted, there shouldn't be any starting issues.
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Old 10-05-2006, 06:13 PM   #27
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just needs a good carbing

Thanks for the advice. I did clean out the gas tank myself ... pulled it and all the hoses, vacumn valve, etc. I told the mech I had done that. Then on my bill I noticed that he said he cleaned it again ... and charged me for it. The tank was cleaned ... the first time.
I screwed up when I pulled the bowl off the carb and the floats came tumbling down. Photog says they are not supposed to come down that far and that probably jammed the what's it into the flux capacitor or something like that. When I restarted the Honda, gas came pumping out of what I guess was some kind of overflow tube. That's when I said screw it and took it in to let someone with mechanical knowledge clean the carb. The bike runs good ... always has. It's just that, when I leave it sitting for a week, it starts, but stalls when I twist on the throttle. After I start it five or six times, it will take off when I twist the grip. I figure a mechanical choke would eliminate that problem. Seems to me like the bistarter is sticking, pouring gas into the cylinder, when it should release. But what do I know? Wouldn't hurt to tinker with the mixture screws a little, I guess, but I think there is some kind of guard on that screw. I've got a full manual. I will take a look.

J2
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Old 10-06-2006, 07:39 AM   #28
Motomech
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jtwo
Thanks for the advice. I did clean out the gas tank myself ... pulled it and all the hoses, vacumn valve, etc. I told the mech I had done that. Then on my bill I noticed that he said he cleaned it again ... and charged me for it. The tank was cleaned ... the first time.
I screwed up when I pulled the bowl off the carb and the floats came tumbling down. Photog says they are not supposed to come down that far and that probably jammed the what's it into the flux capacitor or something like that. When I restarted the Honda, gas came pumping out of what I guess was some kind of overflow tube. That's when I said screw it and took it in to let someone with mechanical knowledge clean the carb. The bike runs good ... always has. It's just that, when I leave it sitting for a week, it starts, but stalls when I twist on the throttle. After I start it five or six times, it will take off when I twist the grip. I figure a mechanical choke would eliminate that problem. Seems to me like the bistarter is sticking, pouring gas into the cylinder, when it should release. But what do I know? Wouldn't hurt to tinker with the mixture screws a little, I guess, but I think there is some kind of guard on that screw. I've got a full manual. I will take a look.

J2

The plot thickens......
OK, then I will assume that there was/is rust in the gas tank and that was the first cause of your starting woes.
The thing on the mixture screw is called a limiter cap and the fact that it's still there tells me they didn't do a through job cleaning the carb. In fact, the carb can't be cleaned with out removing the mixture screw.
Remember all, motorcycle shops look at scooters as beneath their dignity. They don't really want to work on them and if they do take them in, they are likely to blow them thru with out doing a good job.
It pays for any scooter rider who's scoot is out of warrenty to became proficent at servicing and repairing their putters. Or you will be at the mercy of others.
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Motomech screwed with this post 10-06-2006 at 07:45 AM
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Old 10-06-2006, 07:33 PM   #29
chuckklr04
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Scoot still needs a little fine tuning. Kills every now and then when you come to a stop.

Here is Desiree on her new Scoot!
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Old 10-09-2006, 09:39 AM   #30
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carboPhony

Quote:
Originally Posted by Motomech
The plot thickens......
OK, then I will assume that there was/is rust in the gas tank and that was the first cause of your starting woes.
The thing on the mixture screw is called a limiter cap and the fact that it's still there tells me they didn't do a through job cleaning the carb. In fact, the carb can't be cleaned with out removing the mixture screw.
Remember all, motorcycle shops look at scooters as beneath their dignity. They don't really want to work on them and if they do take them in, they are likely to blow them thru with out doing a good job.
It pays for any scooter rider who's scoot is out of warrenty to became proficent at servicing and repairing their putters. Or you will be at the mercy of others.
Naw ... there was no rust in the tank when I cleaned it, just a lot of old gas laquer. The scoot had been sitting up for a couple of years. That's why I pulled the tank and cleaned it out ... along with the vacumn valve and lines. As I said, I tried to clean the carb bowl too, but screwed up the float in the process.
The dealer I took it to can't be trusted. I won't take it there anymore. I found another, smaller dealer that was started by a service manager who left that other dealership because the other dealer "doesn't offer good customer service." These guys are trying to pull customers from the other, larger dealership, and they have treated me well. If I get real motivated to get the Honda choke system fixed for good, I will probably take it there.
Thanks for the info on the limiter cap. Maybe I can get that thing off somehow. As I have said, the Honda Elite 80 starts very well. It is just when I put on power after allowing it to idle for maybe 30 seconds that it seems to flood. Once it is warmed up and the bistarter has relaxed, that mean little machine runs just like it did 18 years ago and gets 130 mpg.

J2
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