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Old 07-16-2010, 11:41 AM   #1726
tedmarshall
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Stem Separated From tube/Wipeout....

Hey Woody’s:

I am trying to determine why the stem broke off at the tube and sent me down the road. I am not looking to blame anybody, just need to determine why it happened so it never happens again to me or my riding pals (including my 2 teen boys).

I believe the 21” tube came from SW Moto. I am waiting to hear from them .

The facts: a week ago last Sunday…on a lonely paved road on the great northern peninsula near Hawkes Bay, Newfoundland, Canada. Traveling at a steady 50-55 mph on my 2002 KTM LC4e 640. The front tire is a DOT knobby Pirelli MT something or other. Air pressure, approx. 20 psi. Temps=55 degrees F. tires were all but new prior to the trip, but just prior to this wipeout I had hammered them pretty well on the rugged Trans Labrador highway, I’m guessing maybe 1000 miles of cut stone/gravel some bigger rocks, but no direct hard hits. Then…in an instant, the front tire lost all air, I mean in a split second. There was no saving the front end. Low side. Bike slid approx. 65 feet, so did I. I wore great gear, was unhurt except for a broken pinkie and knuckle. Thanks to light traffic on this 2-lane road, I was not run over. I would have been had this occurred near my home.

I picked up the bike, got it up on some rocks, broke the wheel down looking for the nail or screw I ran over. But much to my surprise and anger the tube comes off without a stem. All I see is a jagged, triangular shaped tearing of the base of the stem. The stem itself was still in the wheel. The stem was not cocked at an angle, the wheel is the stock DID wheel, no rim lock.

At the time of the get-off, I did not strike anything on or in the road. Although my son bent this same wheel on an earlier ride this spring. You wonderful folks at Woody’s Wheel Works trued the wheel for me. I mounted up the tube and tire. (As I have many times before. The tire held air up until this catastrophic failure.)

So: manufacturing defect of tube? Damaged stem from earlier rock hit? All my riding pals think it’s one or the other. Someone got me a new tube and I drove another 1000 miles on the worn but undamaged tire to complete my trip.

I have asked myself over and over whether I was to blame, but I don’t think so.

Would love your thoughts/analysis.

Lastly, are you able to build up tubeless wheels (with safety bead) for this KTM LC4 so I could run 19 and 17 inch tubeless dual-sport tires?

Regards,

Ted Marshall
Satisfied Customer
Wilmette, IL.
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Old 07-16-2010, 01:17 PM   #1727
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torn out valve stem at speed on the highway = instant blowout and lowside????

Quote:
Originally Posted by tedmarshall
Hey Woody’s:

I am trying to determine why the stem broke off at the tube and sent me down the road. I am not looking to blame anybody, just need to determine why it happened so it never happens again to me or my riding pals (including my 2 teen boys). I'm with ya on this and appreciate not buying into the blame game on this one

I believe the 21” tube came from SW Moto. I am waiting to hear from them .

The facts: a week ago last Sunday…on a lonely paved road on the great northern peninsula near Hawkes Bay, Newfoundland, Canada. Traveling at a steady 50-55 mph on my 2002 KTM LC4e 640. The front tire is a DOT knobby Pirelli MT something or other. Air pressure, approx. 20 psi. my crap detector instantly goes ballistic!!!Temps=55 degrees F. tires were all but new prior to the trip, but just prior to this wipeout I had hammered them pretty well on the rugged Trans Labrador highway, I’m guessing maybe 1000 miles of cut stone/gravel some bigger rocks, but no direct hard hits. ah-ha another bit of important info!!! Then…in an instant, the front tire lost all air, I mean in a split second. There was no saving the front end. Low side. Bike slid approx. 65 feet, so did I. I wore great gear, was unhurt except for a broken pinkie and knuckle. Thanks to light traffic on this 2-lane road, I was not run over. I would have been had this occurred near my home.

I picked up the bike, got it up on some rocks, broke the wheel down looking for the nail or screw I ran over. But much to my surprise and anger the tube comes off without a stem. All I see is a jagged, triangular shaped tearing of the base of the stem. The stem itself was still in the wheel. The stem was not cocked at an angle.......

[ it won't be , if ya have a nut tightened down onthe outside like most folks would have done]

,,,,,,,, the wheel is the stock DID wheel, no rim lock.,

[ahah,,,another important tidbit]


At the time of the get-off, I did not strike anything on or in the road. Although my son bent this same wheel on an earlier ride this spring. You wonderful folks at Woody’s Wheel Works trued the wheel for me. I mounted up the tube and tire. (As I have many times before. The tire held air up until this catastrophic failure.)

So: manufacturing defect of tube? none of the above...Damaged stem from earlier rock hit?nope All my riding pals think it’s one or the other. well,,that's why you are hereSomeone got me a new tube and I drove another 1000 miles on the worn but undamaged tire to complete my trip.

I have asked myself over and over whether I was to blame, but I don’t think so.well you are not the first soul to be bitten in the ass by either forgetfullness and/or lack of knowledge

Would love your thoughts/analysis.

Lastly, are you able to build up tubeless wheels (with safety bead) for this KTM LC4 so I could run 19 and 17 inch tubeless dual-sport tires?no problem,,,we can do it one of two ways...

a,,19/17 set-up and then we seal them at $99 ea

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=439443

b,,19/17 with genuine tubeless rims off an Aprillia caponord

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=439443

Regards,

Ted Marshall
Satisfied Customer
Wilmette, IL.
OK,,now to the analysis...

FYI...when you run off road at low tire pressures ie 25psi and below it is imperative that you have at least one rim lock installed ,,this keeps the tire from slipping ....when braking or accelerating hard

FYI...if you ride off road at low pressures it is wise to NOT tighten the valve stem nut against the rim and employ the old trick of backing the nut up against the valve stem cap....racers often enlarge the hole similar to what Honda does on all their dirt-bikes.

FYI,,,if ya do a lot of highway you will definitely need to balance your tires,,,if you have only one rim-lock installed then you'll need to put the equivalent amount of weight opposite the rim-lock to balance your tires ,,, a little trick that will kill two birds with one stone is to install a second rim-lock opposite the first,,you'll double your safety factor against slipping ,,and save a bunch of useless lead-weights..

FYI,,whenever you ride highway you will need to use the recommended tire pressures for your machine,,i imagine they'd be something like 38/36psi for highway use and higher when carrying a passenger or extra gear...the main SNAFUs are caused by riders not airing up after they have been running low pressures in the dirt,,hence the tires will overheat and cause premature tire wear,,,ill handling,,and lead to possible failure...

i bet ya can figure out your part in the events leading to the valve stem ripping out

IMHO,,
woody PS,,anyone else have some other ideas


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Old 07-16-2010, 03:26 PM   #1728
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what tube-type and/or tubeless will work on Yamaha XS 400 mags???

Quote:
Originally Posted by ROK
I have a 79 Yamaha XS400. The tires are shot.

Front is a 100/90-18 = 3.5'' tire
Rear is a 110/90-18= 4.0x18
Cast rims


I have found plenty of regular street tires, but I was trying to find something more dual sport to put on the old bike. Planning on turning it into a scrambler of sorts for the wife.a happy wife is boon to man

Most of the tires I looked at are pretty much pure street tires not meant for gravel roads, forest service graded dirt roads, etc. I realize they would work but...looking for something with a little more traction under such conditions.just looked through my catalog and found something that you and she might like like IRC GP-1 they have a nice dual sport pattern,,3.5x18 and 4.0x18 rear,,,take the 3.5 an dflip it and you can then use it on the front

The Bridgestone S11 Spitfire looks like it might do the trick.nahh too street oriented!!!

I did find two tires that have a more dual-sport/trials look to them that would give that scrambler look to the bike and better dirt traction:

IRC has a front-rear interchangeable tire (TR-1) and Shinko a similar interchangeable tire (244). But both are tube-type tires.you can always install a tube in a TL tire,,i put tire talc in there if the inside rubber pattern isn't fairly smooth

I don't know if a tube tire would work without a tube on cast wheels or if I would have to put tubes in them to make them work.answered that already...

Any thoughts?

Whatever I do I just want to be sure it will be safe.i thought of that first

Thanks for any input,

ROK

woody
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........If you're lost???... GPS = 39*40'33.86N x 104*59'54.69W
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Old 07-17-2010, 06:44 PM   #1729
Kilo Sierra
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gs set

Woody,

'02 GS...stock dimensions, would be my idea of yee-haw. Ultimately superlaced and strong. I do not currently have dionor rims or hubs/ABS ring... Anodized/powder coated...How much?

I tried the search feature 'cuz I was sure someone would have asked by now, but came up with zero.

Thanks for your time,
ks
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Old 07-18-2010, 06:13 AM   #1730
woody's wheel works OP
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R1150GS wheels..cost etc

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kilo Sierra
Woody,

'02 GS...stock dimensions, would be my idea of yee-haw. Ultimately superlaced and strong. I do not currently have dionor rims or hubs/ABS ring... Anodized/powder coated...How much?

I tried the search feature 'cuz I was sure someone would have asked by now, but came up with zero.

Thanks for your time,
ks
hi ks welcome to the ''asylum'' as i hear em say...

all you folks out there that want wheels buildt,,,,,please take a minute and think of what your dream riding experience would be like if ya had the wheels that would serve your highest good,,beneath ya,,,,

where do you most of your riding????

how hard do you ride ???

how fast do you want to ride???

how durable do you want your wheels to be ???

do i like the benefits of tubeless wheels???

what are my aesthetic requirements???

would a 21'' wheel serve me better off road"""

just a few notions...BWOE
with that kind of data i can help ya out even better

think on these things and chime in again
woody
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woody's wheel works screwed with this post 07-21-2010 at 11:31 AM
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Old 07-18-2010, 10:20 AM   #1731
Kilo Sierra
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Thanks Woody,

I'll put all that together and shoot you an email.

ks
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Old 07-18-2010, 05:45 PM   #1732
A65T3445
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Woody, you are the bomb!

Woody, just got back from Alaska a few days ago. You set me up with a 21" wheel, TKC80's and gave me a quick lesson a few days before I left on June 1st. Between the wheel, tires and lesson I no longer fear deep gravel or slick mud, the bike was fantastic, even two up in deep gravel! I owe you another beer! Curtis
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Old 07-18-2010, 09:14 PM   #1733
woody's wheel works OP
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happy chappy who followed my advice using 21 wheel on R1200GS in Alaska

Quote:
Originally Posted by A65T3445
Woody, just got back from Alaska a few days ago. You set me up with a 21" wheel, TKC80's and gave me a quick lesson a few days before I left on June 1st. Between the wheel, tires and lesson I no longer fear deep gravel or slick mud, the bike was fantastic, even two up in deep gravel! I owe you another beer! Curtis
Curtis ,,,ya hafta know,,that's the best news i've heard in long while,,,

ya gotta know i sometimes feel like a voice crying in the wilderness,,,after 37 years at this game creating solutions for you riders,,,i am baffled that the word of how a 21'' wheel on any of the GSs hasn't gotten out there...hey this works,,,too,,,one happy chappy at a time works for me,,,,

so tell the rest of the planet,,,i already know it works

and i'll suck down a cold one when ya stop by...

ATTABOY
woody
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woody's wheel works screwed with this post 07-21-2010 at 11:30 AM
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Old 07-21-2010, 07:49 AM   #1734
ROK
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Woody,

Thank you!

Wife is very happy with the choice you mentioned and the info. She had some concerns about this herself.

I know where to come in the furture for wheel info, as I have been reading through this thread.

Thanks for your hard work and taking the time to educate us all on wheelin' down the road!

ROK
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Old 07-23-2010, 07:13 AM   #1735
peeweesp
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I recently decided to update my 640's brakes from a 2 piston to a new Radial 4 piston. ( my 640 has 48mm front for conversion) and ran into a problem with these DNA wheels. The spokes hit the caliper. And the caliper is already machined to clear the spokes. Are the spokes just freaking giant? I cant seem to win with this setup
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Old 07-23-2010, 05:11 PM   #1736
woody's wheel works OP
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aftermarket wheels banging into back of radial caliper...

Quote:
Originally Posted by peeweesp
I recently decided to update my 640's brakes from a 2 piston to a new Radial 4 piston. ( my 640 has 48mm front for conversion) and ran into a problem with these DNA wheels. The spokes hit the caliper. And the caliper is already machined to clear the spokes. Are the spokes just freaking giant? I cant seem to win with this setup
this happens all the time when one cross-pollinates components...well NOT ALL the time

Rx for this scenario...see if DNA will fiqure out and correct their lace pattern,,some of these hub builders move the spokes out for better triangulation

i have no idea abut the size of dna wheels we just had one arrive yesterday ,,,heard they were forged hubs,,,that's anew one on me look like machined castings to me

you can shim out your caliper ,,or move wheel away it all has to be co-ordinated so that the wheel is centered in forks,,,the disc is centered in caliper ,,,

just curious ,,did ya tell dna about your set-up,,i',m sure they speced oem wheels n brakes

holler or shoot us some pics...mo betta

woody
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Old 07-23-2010, 05:25 PM   #1737
Blur
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Hey Woody -

I just purchased an '07 BMW GSA. The former owner had a variety of stickers on it related to places he had been, tires he had used, motorcycle-related websites he frequents, various farkles he installed, etc.

I wanted to make this bike my own and removed all the stickers as soon as I got home.

However, I did leave one sticker on the bike. It was about the size of a dime, just next to the front wheel's stem. It said "Woody's Wheel Works".

My question is.... should I remove it? It's such an unobtrusive little thing.... down there, all by its lonesome just spinning 'round and 'round and 'round... I don't have the heart to take it off. Can you provide some input??
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Old 07-23-2010, 07:05 PM   #1738
peeweesp
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Quote:
Originally Posted by woody's wheel works
this happens all the time when one cross-pollinates components...well NOT ALL the time

Rx for this scenario...see if DNA will fiqure out and correct their lace pattern,,some of these hub builders move the spokes out for better triangulation

i have no idea abut the size of dna wheels we just had one arrive yesterday ,,,heard they were forged hubs,,,that's anew one on me look like machined castings to me

you can shim out your caliper ,,or move wheel away it all has to be co-ordinated so that the wheel is centered in forks,,,the disc is centered in caliper ,,,

just curious ,,did ya tell dna about your set-up,,i',m sure they speced oem wheels n brakes

holler or shoot us some pics...mo betta

woody
I didnt tell Them my setup it is there basic "it will fit all new ktms" type deal. They worked great with oem brakes but trying to get them to work now is the pits. I know it works with stock oem Behr supermoto wheels so i may just pick one up and try,
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Old 07-23-2010, 10:19 PM   #1739
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folks, an inmate is at MAJOR X -road to pull or not to pull a www sticker

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blur
Hey Woody -

I just purchased an '07 BMW GSA. The former owner had a variety of stickers on it related to places he had been, tires he had used, motorcycle-related websites he frequents, various farkles he installed, etc.

I wanted to make this bike my own and removed all the stickers as soon as I got home.

However, I did leave one sticker on the bike. It was about the size of a dime, just next to the front wheel's stem. It said "Woody's Wheel Works".

My question is.... should I remove it? It's such an unobtrusive little thing.... down there, all by its lonesome just spinning 'round and 'round and 'round... I don't have the heart to take it off. Can you provide some input??
man,,i feel your sensibilities coming into play,,,i'd trust your inner instincts,,the force that had ya remove all else without a moments hesitation,,til your eyes lit on that little decal that serves notice to all!!!,,,

THIS wheel has been blessed and massaged to close tolerances,,,it has the sweetness of many years experience at the art of 'centering' in order to re-shape it's destiny....from gaschunking and wobbling down the highway of life,,,to being a well centered mass working effortlessly,,,doing IT"S thing,,,not distracting you by wobbling and hopping and jumping around in out of kilter orbits that scare the shit out of you as you plunge into the next sweeper but rather time and again transform rotation to linear output,,to have the never ending point of contact with the ground replicate itself a multitude of times ,,,leaving you with a serendipitous grin on your face

time after time that lil sticker will remind you there are folks out there not willing to settle for the lowest common denominator,,,,not willing to plant an ounce of planned obsolescence into it's wares,,,,it is a beacon to set your destination to,,,,,a node point reminding you of all that's possible,,,reliablity...strength...durability and beauty all dialed into that which you behold beneath a a lil symbol.,,,,that were you to follow it ,,should ya be lost,,,,would reliably bring you home to a place where you will always be welcome,,,

all the data is below....,,,tear it off???hmmmnnnnn ya may want to think twice,,,,

Pssst..it is a symbol..for the few,,,the lucky,,,,the cognoscenti of quality and excellence

quote:[
"There are moments in your life that make you and set the course of who you're going to be. Sometimes they're little, subtle moments. Sometimes, they're big moments you never saw coming. No one asks for their life to change, but it does. It's what you do afterwards that counts. That's when you find out who you are."]

or...

Some things arrive in their own mysterious hour, on their own terms and not yours, to be seized or relinquished forever. — Gail Goodwin
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........If you're lost???... GPS = 39*40'33.86N x 104*59'54.69W

woody's wheel works screwed with this post 07-23-2010 at 10:52 PM
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Old 07-24-2010, 05:05 AM   #1740
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AWESOME!!!!!

Thanks for your input.
I'm going out to polish my sticker!!!!!!!!!!
I'm looking forward to showing it the world
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