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Old 08-30-2010, 07:18 AM   #16501
Mr Head
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Back in the old days we started off the sizing search by measuring from the floor up to the top of our femur. Right at the end you can feel rotate when you press in at the hip joint. Take that number and subtract about 13.75 inches. That will get you close.

Personally I'd error on the side of smaller rather than larger. smaller will be lighter and a little stiffer.

Used a middle to upper level bike can be found that you can expect to drop an few hundred into as you wear stuff out and discover what the PO and a little looking did not reveal.

Good hunting.
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Old 08-30-2010, 07:38 AM   #16502
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheNedster
Lemme see, we already have Javarilla as King of the Clydes. So I nominate Askel as the Minister of Pain and Gravel.

Y'all are makin' the rest of us look bad.
I'm pretty sure my navigational skills this weekend would qualify me as Director of the Ministry of Weights and Measures.

As Bimble can attest, apparently six of one and a half dozen of the other are NOT the same.
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Old 08-30-2010, 07:43 AM   #16503
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VelvtRide
Ok. After a month of riding on my comfort bike, I've come to the realization that I need a road bike if I'm going to continue to ride.

I want a POS entry level bike that will get me started, but I have no money and all I can offer to trade is my nearly new Schwinn GS comfort bike with less than 200 miles on it.

I've looked on Craigslist, but I have NO idea what's a good bike, what I need, blah blah blah.

Tell me what I need and how to get what I want with my limitations. Please.
I don't think I'd be cosidering an upgrade, if you're messing around at $200. There's hardly anything worth your time within that budget, CL, eBay, or not. I'd suggest making the bike purchase a priority within your lifestyle, even if it means a second job, or whatever. Sounds drastic, but, you want the bike to be for longevity. If you settle and end up progressing through several bikes, you spend way more than if you just bought something decent to begin with. A POS is just that; a POS.

Some bike shops offer the "Freedom to Ride" credit plan through Citifinancial. It's a 12 month, interest-free, payment plan. That might be an option.

One of the better suggestions here is to be looking at something that is endurance/mileage oriented. The stack height (headtube length, fork steerer length, upward stem angle/rise dimensions combined give you stack height) is higher on this type of bike because they're designed for comfortable, efficient travel. The bar is, typically, higher than the seat on these. Whereas a criterium (crit) bike is designed for circuit racing and has a much lower stack height; think nose rubbing the front tire. Also, the mileage bikes have more stable geometry and frame tube dimensions and shapes that are more conducive to a better ride than crit bikes. Crit bikes are short and stiff to quickly transfer power and maneuver within a peloton. You don't need that.

The latest craze is to buy full-on race bikes. People snag them because the bikes look cool and they have aspirations of being the next Lance, without having spent much time on a bike. The reality is, once they leave the bike shop, put a few miles on the bike, they realize that the bike is really uncomfortable. Then, it ends up hanging in the garage collecting dust. Acclimating to doing miles on a bike takes time. Today's society believes in instant gratification. Cycling doesn't work that way.

I'd highly recommend looking at something women-specific. These bike are designed around a woman's proportions and weight. The frames are dimensionally different from men's and the materials are much thinner to be lighter weight and more compliant. Putting a 110lb woman on a man's bike that fits her results in a harsh riding bike, because she's not heavy enough to induce flex into the frame. Also, the components, like levers and bars, are smaller, on women's bikes, to accommodate a woman's smaller hands and narrower shoulders.

When I bought my first road bike, I was looking at a Tricross as the most reasonable bike for me. I didn't buy it and bought a narrow-tire endurance bike, because it was more efficient than the 'cross. I, then, bought an additional bike that was even more efficient and committed. Well, neither bike will go down the country roads we have around here very well. So, I ended up buying a Tricross. It took 3 years, but, I ended up on the bike I should've bought in the first place. I've ridden centuries on it and ride it all the time as my primary bike. I sold the endurance bike and the tri bike mostly hangs in the basement (it only comes out on TT nights). The moral is below.

Lastly, your father is probably full of good, conservative advice. He's done enough miles to know what works and what doesn't. Guys like him aren't swayed by the latest-greatest trends. Generally, they believe in sound reasoning that has been proven over many years and miles. Do yourself a favor and listen closely to his advice and pay attention to what he does.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mercury264
bikesdirect.com

Paid $500 for mine 2 years and 7K miles ago. It 'aint a Cervelo but you 'aint paying Cervelo prices.
As I've posted before, I'll gladly ride anything off their site.

In consideration of "VelvtRide" with my thoughts:

For $450, I wouldn't recommend the bike, as it's too frugal on components. But, it'll get you on a road bike. Same with the Windsor.

For $600, decent bike, rear eyelets, shit for levers (trust me on that).

For $800, decent bike, rear eyelets, carbon fork, OK drivetrain and levers. It'll take 28mm tires, which ride nicer and can go down pretty crappy roads. Fenders can be mounted, though the front will need a couple additional pieces to mount it. This would be my pick, on a budget, from that site. BTW, the red color looks killer.

For $1000, really nice bike, carbon fork, carbon seatstays, carbon seatpost, good components, no eyelets (no fender or rack provision), probably not another bike as nice for the money.
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Old 08-30-2010, 09:17 AM   #16504
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ducnut
I don't think I'd be cosidering an upgrade, if you're messing around at $200. There's hardly anything worth your time within that budget, CL, eBay, or not. I'd suggest making the bike purchase a priority within your lifestyle, even if it means a second job, or whatever. Sounds drastic, but, you want the bike to be for longevity. If you settle and end up progressing through several bikes, you spend way more than if you just bought something decent to begin with. A POS is just that; a POS.

Some bike shops offer the "Freedom to Ride" credit plan through Citifinancial. It's a 12 month, interest-free, payment plan. That might be an option.

One of the better suggestions here is to be looking at something that is endurance/mileage oriented. The stack height (headtube length, fork steerer length, upward stem angle/rise dimensions combined give you stack height) is higher on this type of bike because they're designed for comfortable, efficient travel. The bar is, typically, higher than the seat on these. Whereas a criterium (crit) bike is designed for circuit racing and has a much lower stack height; think nose rubbing the front tire. Also, the mileage bikes have more stable geometry and frame tube dimensions and shapes that are more conducive to a better ride than crit bikes. Crit bikes are short and stiff to quickly transfer power and maneuver within a peloton. You don't need that.

The latest craze is to buy full-on race bikes. People snag them because the bikes look cool and they have aspirations of being the next Lance, without having spent much time on a bike. The reality is, once they leave the bike shop, put a few miles on the bike, they realize that the bike is really uncomfortable. Then, it ends up hanging in the garage collecting dust. Acclimating to doing miles on a bike takes time. Today's society believes in instant gratification. Cycling doesn't work that way.

I'd highly recommend looking at something women-specific. These bike are designed around a woman's proportions and weight. The frames are dimensionally different from men's and the materials are much thinner to be lighter weight and more compliant. Putting a 110lb woman on a man's bike that fits her results in a harsh riding bike, because she's not heavy enough to induce flex into the frame. Also, the components, like levers and bars, are smaller, on women's bikes, to accommodate a woman's smaller hands and narrower shoulders.

When I bought my first road bike, I was looking at a Tricross as the most reasonable bike for me. I didn't buy it and bought a narrow-tire endurance bike, because it was more efficient than the 'cross. I, then, bought an additional bike that was even more efficient and committed. Well, neither bike will go down the country roads we have around here very well. So, I ended up buying a Tricross. It took 3 years, but, I ended up on the bike I should've bought in the first place. I've ridden centuries on it and ride it all the time as my primary bike. I sold the endurance bike and the tri bike mostly hangs in the basement (it only comes out on TT nights). The moral is below.

Lastly, your father is probably full of good, conservative advice. He's done enough miles to know what works and what doesn't. Guys like him aren't swayed by the latest-greatest trends. Generally, they believe in sound reasoning that has been proven over many years and miles. Do yourself a favor and listen closely to his advice and pay attention to what he does.



As I've posted before, I'll gladly ride anything off their site.

In consideration of "VelvtRide" with my thoughts:

For $450, I wouldn't recommend the bike, as it's too frugal on components. But, it'll get you on a road bike. Same with the Windsor.

For $600, decent bike, rear eyelets, shit for levers (trust me on that).

For $800, decent bike, rear eyelets, carbon fork, OK drivetrain and levers. It'll take 28mm tires, which ride nicer and can go down pretty crappy roads. Fenders can be mounted, though the front will need a couple additional pieces to mount it. This would be my pick, on a budget, from that site. BTW, the red color looks killer.

For $1000, really nice bike, carbon fork, carbon seatstays, carbon seatpost, good components, no eyelets (no fender or rack provision), probably not another bike as nice for the money.
Can't thank you enough for all that info.
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Old 08-30-2010, 09:19 AM   #16505
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If don't really want to spend any more money and I don't plan on entering any contests or whatever.

Why would this bike be a horrible bike to buy?
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Old 08-30-2010, 10:21 AM   #16506
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Head

And getting finished, ugly but it is going to work,


With the bar tape and a waterbottle the damages came to about $84. Not terrible. And it will work.
Did the bike come with the front break on the right or is something you changed because of personal preference?
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Old 08-30-2010, 10:28 AM   #16507
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilGenius
If don't really want to spend any more money and I don't plan on entering any contests or whatever.

Why would this bike be a horrible bike to buy?
does it fit you?

how's the ride quality?

nice that it has Shimano shifters and such, but they don't even say WHICH Shimano, and that means it could be almost anything. Neither that rear derailleur or crankset is any of the road groups on the Shimano site, not even the bottom-of-the-line 2200 or Sora.
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Old 08-30-2010, 10:44 AM   #16508
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stinez
Did the bike come with the front break on the right or is something you changed because of personal preference?
I ride a motorcycle and have done so for 35+ years. All my bicycles have had the front brake on the right, except the latest bike which is the first bike I did not build in about 34 years. That will change once I wear the bar tape enough to warrant replacement. I'm particular and somewhat cheap.
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Old 08-30-2010, 10:50 AM   #16509
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I've been putting my front brake on the right side since BEFORE I rode a motorcycle. I'm a lefty... and when I'm riding with one hand, it tends to by my right hand. on my old road bikes with downtube shifters, I always shifted with my left hand....
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Old 08-30-2010, 10:56 AM   #16510
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilGenius
If don't really want to spend any more money and I don't plan on entering any contests or whatever.

Why would this bike be a horrible bike to buy?
Frame does not have rear derailleur mount, this likely means stamped drop outs. Low end components will wear out in about 500 miles. A better set up could probably be found used on CL, or elsewhere.

In the $500 range these bikes all seem to me to be similar to the $200 bikes of my past, bottom end bike shop bikes.
Department store bikes used to be around $40 to $80. I don't know what they are now since I don't go by those places anymore.

That is not to say that a deal can't be found. Like a two year old brand new middle of the line bike from Trek or Specialized, or similar company.
For current model year complete bike with good upgradable components I think one would be looking at about a grand.


Paul bought a slightly used Specialized Allez off CL, made some upgrades as he came across them wheels and the like. After about a year he bought a new Roubaix, and sold the Allez minus the upgrades for about what he'd bought it for in the first place. This was his first roadbike and his second bike. The first being a Rockhopper.

I don't think you could peel the Roubaix out of his cold dead hands now.

I am never going to compete at anything again. I know this as a certainty. One reason I went with the more comfortable for me Roubaix. And a triple. And the model of that bike I did was aimed at the components lasting long enough I could rebuild my bicycle fund pile of change to allow for replacements or upgrades.

If I were looking for used I'd look at medium to higher end aluminum with good components and a good fit. Ii don't look at color at all. I'd look the frame over for damage and ride it a little to check for extra flex or odd handling and I'd feel the headset and bottom brackets for bearing adjustment. Too loose probably not maintained. Too tight ham-fisted. Crunchy, walk away. Look at the bottom bracket to see mis-alignment as in cross-threaded in the frame.

Check the shifting and brake cable adjustment and action. If all that is slick and clean the bike is well maintained. should be good to go.

I spent thirty years riding hand made Italian bikes. And riding them a lot. I am never satisfied with medium feel or performance with a frame or components.
As an example: the Roubaix comes in models from about a grand to over 6K. I never considered the top end. Out of my budget, The bottom end did not have what I wanted as far as components, and since the frames were about all the same I looked at bang for the buck. For a new bike that is fine.
since most lightly used bikes are going to be re-sold with the same components they came new with I figure about the same criteria apply. At least for me.
For me I wanted a bike I'd be comfortable on all day long. That is eight to ten hours at worst / best case, depending on your point of view...

The bike I bought fit that. If I were racing and forty years younger my thinking would be quite different.

I would test ride the bike new or used. If not possible loads of pictures to the point of the seller going nuts.
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Old 08-30-2010, 11:19 AM   #16511
VelvtRide
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Someone tell me about this bike, please?


Excellent condtion this 57/58 cm Road bike
Shimano Equipped, Dia-compe brakes
Weinman Double wall, sealed bearings wheelset
CST Comp high pressure Tires, (brand new)
New presta tubes, just tuned and cleaned
Ready to ride
asking 225 or best offer



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Old 08-30-2010, 11:25 AM   #16512
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ah, I found the Shimano components on that $300 Windsor... "A050", they are BELOW 2200 which is below Sora on the Shimano road group hierarchy. 7 speed only.

What Mr Head said. Another one to consider might be the Specialized Secteur, which is like an economy model of the Roubaix, if you can find a late model used one. oops, looks like Secteur was new in 2010. maybe some deals then, in the LBS's? a 2010 Secteur Elite Compact, with 105 components, looks to be a nice ride (of course, I haven't ridden one, so who knows?).

One way to judge a bike is by the parts on it, the better bikes tend to have better parts, Shimano's heirarchy from bottom to top for road bikes is... Sora (3000 series P/Ns), Tiagra (4000 series), 105 (5000 series), Ultegra (6000 series), DuraAce (7000 series). there's also 2200 and A050 below these as I discovered above, I'd avoid these, they are basically cheap junk and won't last a year of decent riding. A full DuraAce group (parts set) runs an obscene $5000 or more, so you'll only find this on a REALLY expensive bike. Ultegra isn't much better. so that leaves 105 as the affordable group of choice.

There's also SRAM, but I'm not up on their group lineups. its good stuff too.
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Old 08-30-2010, 11:30 AM   #16513
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VelvtRide
Someone tell me about this bike, please?


Excellent condtion this 57/58 cm Road bike
Shimano Equipped, Dia-compe brakes
Weinman Double wall, sealed bearings wheelset
CST Comp high pressure Tires, (brand new)
New presta tubes, just tuned and cleaned
Ready to ride
asking 225 or best offer




are you 6' tall, or particularlly long legged? thats a _big_ frame. Centurion was a 70s/80s brand, I'd want to know what sort of steel the frame is made of. if its fully double butted cro-mo tubing, it might well be a very nice bike. if its double-butted 3-main-tubes, its an OK frame.

a lot of bikes that era used 27" rather than 700c wheels, this greatly limits your tire selection. a lot of people swapped 700c wheels into 27" frames, I'd inspect the brakes very carefully to be sure the pads fully reach the rims and aren't on the top edge such that when the brake pads wear down they scrape the tires. presta tubes greatly increases the odds of it being 700c as most 27" stuff was schraeder valved..

my best piece of advise? bring your dad when you go look at it!


Edit: ah, this might be useful info too!
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/centurion/index.html
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Old 08-30-2010, 11:40 AM   #16514
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pierce
are you 6' tall, or particularlly long legged? thats a _big_ frame.

Edit: ah, this might be useful info too!
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/centurion/index.html
Not tall - 5'6", but the Le Monde I'll be riding tonight of my dad's is a 55cm so I thought a 57cm wasn't that big of a difference.

Thanks for the link and all the advice!
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Old 08-30-2010, 12:01 PM   #16515
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VelvtRide
Not tall - 5'6", but the Le Monde I'll be riding tonight of my dad's is a 55cm so I thought a 57cm wasn't that big of a difference.

Thanks for the link and all the advice!
in the old days, the rule was, the tallest frame you could stand over with your feet flat on the ground with maybe an inch of clearance before you hit bone. that puts me, 6' tall with 32" inseam pants, on about a 60cm (23.5" old school)

modern roadbike fitting 'rules' tend to suggest a shorter frame. i ran through a fitting guide on a custom frame site, and it suggested that a race bike should be 53-54 for me, but if I wanted a 'french fit', a 57-58 is OK. sadly, I can't find this fit calculator right now, but it took all kinda measurements, like thigh length, height of shoulders while sitting on a hard bench, etc etc.
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