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Old 03-02-2011, 05:25 PM   #19201
mgorman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mercury264 View Post
As an avowed Husky fan, that just 'aint happening That said, I do like the orange one but the blue is pretty sweet also.
Just sold my TE410 last Thanksgiving, Nice bike, a nice tractor, but I needed the money to help with a down payment, being the least ridden, only a couple times a year.

I'm sure the Mercier is nice, Its just I'm a big fan of lugged steel and steel forks. That and my Ritchey wheels on my MTB lasted about 1.5 laps of a race before the front collapsed at the seam, then after a switch, the rear collapsed on the next lap. Our Tandem is spec'd with Ritchey bars and stems and they seem pretty good.
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Old 03-02-2011, 05:29 PM   #19202
Gummee!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mgorman View Post
Just sold my TE410 last Thanksgiving, Nice bike, a nice tractor, but I needed the money to help with a down payment, being the least ridden, only a couple times a year.

I'm sure the Mercier is nice, Its just I'm a big fan of lugged steel and steel forks. That and my Ritchey wheels on my MTB lasted about 1.5 laps of a race before the front collapsed at the seam, then after a switch, the rear collapsed on the next lap. Our Tandem is spec'd with Ritchey bars and stems and they seem pretty good.
Now contrast that Ritchey story with my Ritchey Pro wheels on the road bike that've been going round in circles since 2003 or so.

M
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Old 03-02-2011, 05:42 PM   #19203
Ricardo Kuhn
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Originally Posted by Gummee! View Post
Now contrast that Ritchey story with my Ritchey Pro wheels on the road bike that've been going round in circles since 2003 or so.

M
Personally I have some pretty bad experiences with the "El-Cheppo" Ritchey wheels working at bike shops, Yeah The expensive ones are okay but most of the lower end ones (90% of their wheels, MTB and/or road) don't hold tension well, The nipples tend to pop out of the rims (If they last that long, Read Not hold tension well) they taco under any side load, They are difficult to true, The cassette paws suck too and more than anything the seams come undone far to easily.

If you ask me is kind of a shame, since the Ritchey name use to be a Benchmark of quality and good design even if everything was made by Sugino and/or diacompe
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Old 03-02-2011, 05:51 PM   #19204
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Originally Posted by Mercury264 View Post
I have decided to treat myself to a new bike. I bought a 500 buck Motobecane from bikesdirect about 3 years ago - very basic (Sora groupset etc.) but it really has done me well and I have done 1,000's of miles on it but I really fancy a new bike if for no other reason than I can leave my current bike on the trainer/rollers and not have to keep swapping over.

I have decided I'd like a steel bike mainly because I'm a fat git and I want the strength of steel and I don't need to shave grams, I'll just skip breakfast if needs be. I'd also like the best groupset I can reasonably afford and that, to my understanding and budget, means Ultegra.

I have also decided to give bikesdirect another go - it seems you can't beat their prices and I could give a crap about the actual name on a bike, just that's it's a decent bike.

So....with that in mind I have boiled it down to 2 choices:

Motobecane Gran Premio PRO Road Bike




Or

Mercier Serpens



I prefer the Motobecanse, and they are close in price but I have a couple questions:

1. Why no CF forks on the Motobecane ?
2. I have CF forks on my current bike, if I get the Motobecane can I transfer the forks to the new bike and if so how hard is that to do ?
3. Should I be concerned the Motobecane has only 20 gears - again, if I get this bike and I decide to change it, how easy would it be ?
4. I upgraded the rear wheel on my current bike, can I fit that to either of these bikes with no modification ?
5. What color should I get

Any and all opinion welcomed.

Cheers
1. I think CF forks came into 'vogue' just around the same time aluminum frames did (although I'm sure I'm wrong and shall be summarily corrected). Steel forks and frames have been around for centuries and seem to work quite well.

2. Probably not too hard to do (the Park Tool has all sorts of useful instructions), but see how the bike rides before you attempt such a thing.

3. Not sure if you have the option of specifying a compact crank - but I find that the gears are a lot closer together, and I end up using more of them. No way I can push a 53/11, for example, but a 48/11 sees use every now and then (tailwinds or downhills).

4. Probably, yes - just make sure the cassettes are reasonably similar, lest ye have to change your chain length.

5. Orange. Hands down. End of discussion. Why? Because it's orange - that's why.

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Old 03-02-2011, 06:50 PM   #19205
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Gummee! - Glad to hear yours are rolling great. Everyone tell me how bad Bontrager wheels are but I have a pair that are 10 years old and still rolling well, although not very straight (mis-judged railroad bunny hop). They split life between a cross bike and my training wheels.

Bomb proof for me also has been a welded Mavic rim like a CXP or Open Pro 32 hole laced to Shimano or Campy hubs. I like sticking with J-spokes due their availability at sometimes even the smallest bikes shops

Quote:
Originally Posted by elchulopadre View Post
1. I think CF forks came into 'vogue' just around the same time aluminum frames did
Don't know when carbon forks came out but I had an old 90's Trek 2300 3-tube carbon that I bought used and it had a Profile "Julie" carbon fork that lasted years. About 3 years ago I sold the fork with a different frame to a team mate as a beater without a heater and told him to beware and buy a new fork asap because it was old and I didn't trust it. 2 weeks later he called and said the drop out pulled loose from the fork leg. I'm glad he didn't go down. The bonded drop out also come out of our tandems wound-up fork. I noticed it when I was tightening down the quick release.

The carbon fork on my 6/13 has held up to my antics. 2009 Rubber City Meltdown, Akron, Ohio



If anyone ever wants, check out www.roadbikereview.com or www.mtbreview.com and remember to think about tossing out the most flamboyant bad review and review that give a 5 star after only one ride.
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Old 03-02-2011, 08:26 PM   #19206
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mercury264 View Post
1. Why no CF forks on the Motobecane ?
For what it's worth: Comparing my Specialized Tricross' carbon fork (32mm tire) ride to that of my '63 BSA (28mm tire), I much prefer the steel BSA fork. On the same road, I can visibly see more flex and bump absorption going on with the steel fork. It, also, seems that most steel forks have more leading curve to them, whereas carbon forks tend to be straighter. So, I'm sure there's more going on than just material makeup. The real negative of this realization is that the BSA has me wanting a modern steel bike for my everyday ride.

This pic shows how much curve the steel fork has.
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Old 03-02-2011, 10:09 PM   #19207
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Originally Posted by ducnut View Post
For what it's worth: Comparing my Specialized Tricross' carbon fork (32mm tire) ride to that of my '63 BSA (28mm tire), I much prefer the steel BSA fork. On the same road, I can visibly see more flex and bump absorption going on with the steel fork. It, also, seems that most steel forks have more leading curve to them, whereas carbon forks tend to be straighter. So, I'm sure there's more going on than just material makeup. The real negative of this realization is that the BSA has me wanting a modern steel bike for my everyday ride.

This pic shows how much curve the steel fork has.

Do note, its somewhat deceptive. on the carbon fork, draw a line through the headset centerline down to the height of the axle, and measure the trail. now do that on the steel fork.

truthfully, too, your 63 BSA 3-speed frame is not really representive of anything remotely modern.

this is much closer to classic steel road bike geometry, albeit a rather tall frame

(my son's 1976 Trek TX300)
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Old 03-03-2011, 05:03 AM   #19208
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mercury264 View Post
I have decided to treat myself to a new bike. I bought a 500 buck Motobecane from bikesdirect about 3 years ago - very basic (Sora groupset etc.) but it really has done me well and I have done 1,000's of miles on it but I really fancy a new bike if for no other reason than I can leave my current bike on the trainer/rollers and not have to keep swapping over.

I have decided I'd like a steel bike mainly because I'm a fat git and I want the strength of steel and I don't need to shave grams, I'll just skip breakfast if needs be. I'd also like the best groupset I can reasonably afford and that, to my understanding and budget, means Ultegra.

I have also decided to give bikesdirect another go - it seems you can't beat their prices and I could give a crap about the actual name on a bike, just that's it's a decent bike.

So....with that in mind I have boiled it down to 2 choices:


I prefer the Motobecanse, and they are close in price but I have a couple questions:

1. Why no CF forks on the Motobecane ?
2. I have CF forks on my current bike, if I get the Motobecane can I transfer the forks to the new bike and if so how hard is that to do ?
3. Should I be concerned the Motobecane has only 20 gears - again, if I get this bike and I decide to change it, how easy would it be ?
4. I upgraded the rear wheel on my current bike, can I fit that to either of these bikes with no modification ?
5. What color should I get

Any and all opinion welcomed.

Cheers
1. If you're going with a steel (feel) bike, I'd stick w a steel fork. Steel is lovely to ride, and since the weight isn't an issue for you, you'll get the whole steel experience. CF forks are nice on aluminum frames because it tames the buzzy-ness a bit - but on steel, go real.

2. If it's the same size frame (length of fork tube up) and steerer tube diameter yes - but you'll need to change out the headset too, which unless you have a headset press and all the removal and installation tools for the cups/crowns/races for the changeover - just let a shop do it (or come visit me in Brooklyn....).

3. If you like the granny gear, it's not so hard to change that, but it is easier to just buy a new cassette for the rear, one with a larger easy ring. This way you don't need to also change your front derailleur (from a double to triple), and likewise on your brifter if it's not able to do triple duty...

4. Unless you're going to change out both wheels, why not just leave the matching set on the new bike? You can most likely use the odd one on the new bike with just a changeout of the cassette, and some spacers. Unless the frames chainstays/seatstays are radically different.

5. Orange is always hot.
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Old 03-03-2011, 06:07 AM   #19209
Mercury264
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elchulopadre View Post
1. I think CF forks came into 'vogue' just around the same time aluminum frames did (although I'm sure I'm wrong and shall be summarily corrected). Steel forks and frames have been around for centuries and seem to work quite well.

2. Probably not too hard to do (the Park Tool has all sorts of useful instructions), but see how the bike rides before you attempt such a thing.
I was just curious if I could do it if I wanted to - I will absolutely leave well alone for a while just to see how the steel forks feel.

3. Not sure if you have the option of specifying a compact crank - but I find that the gears are a lot closer together, and I end up using more of them. No way I can push a 53/11, for example, but a 48/11 sees use every now and then (tailwinds or downhills).
English please If you are asking if you can tweak the spec before buying, no I don't think you can - what you see is what you get (they have to cut costs somehow to get the cheap price).

4. Probably, yes - just make sure the cassettes are reasonably similar, lest ye have to change your chain length.
Got it

5. Orange. Hands down. End of discussion. Why? Because it's orange - that's why.
I have to say, the orange really is drawing me in....


Thanks for your reply

Any thoughts/comments on my logic in getting a steel bike with Ultegra ? Thoughts on the spec of the Motobecane ?
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Old 03-03-2011, 06:16 AM   #19210
Mercury264
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zodiac View Post
1. If you're going with a steel (feel) bike, I'd stick w a steel fork. Steel is lovely to ride, and since the weight isn't an issue for you, you'll get the whole steel experience. CF forks are nice on aluminum frames because it tames the buzzy-ness a bit - but on steel, go real.
I am pleased to hear that steel is nice to ride - weight really isn't too much of an issue for me (since we've met, you know that ) but I really want a bike that will ride nice and will last.

2. If it's the same size frame (length of fork tube up) and steerer tube diameter yes - but you'll need to change out the headset too, which unless you have a headset press and all the removal and installation tools for the cups/crowns/races for the changeover - just let a shop do it (or come visit me in Brooklyn....).
Got it - I was more curious than anything.

3. If you like the granny gear, it's not so hard to change that, but it is easier to just buy a new cassette for the rear, one with a larger easy ring. This way you don't need to also change your front derailleur (from a double to triple), and likewise on your brifter if it's not able to do triple duty...
Great point - again, just trying to think of issues I may come across in the future should I get the bike. Not a ton of hills around here and I very very rarely drop down to the lowest gear while riding. I guess I can suck it and see and take it from there.

4. Unless you're going to change out both wheels, why not just leave the matching set on the new bike? You can most likely use the odd one on the new bike with just a changeout of the cassette, and some spacers. Unless the frames chainstays/seatstays are radically different.
Again, just trying to think ahead - the rear on my current bike would not stay round, hence I upgraded to (what I think anyway) is a nice wheel so I was just curious if I could use it on this bike.

5. Orange is always hot.
As I said in an earlier post, it really is drawing me in - I have an aversion for all things orange in the dirt bike world, hence my reluctance to get an orange bike
Great feedback, many thanks

Any thoughts/comments on my thinking (is steel the way to go if weight is no so much of an issue), is Ultegra overkill, how is the spec of the Motobecane ?

Thanks again...
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Old 03-03-2011, 06:36 AM   #19211
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Originally Posted by Mercury264 View Post
Great feedback, many thanks

Any thoughts/comments on my thinking (is steel the way to go if weight is no so much of an issue), is Ultegra overkill, how is the spec of the Motobecane ?

Thanks again...
My Surly is all steel, and rides smooth as a cadillac, if you're going to go for steel, go all the way.

My rule for components is this = buy the best you can afford... The new Ultegra is supposedly incredible stuff, and the better the gruppo, the less adjusting, repairing, cleaning, tightening, and wear and tear. A clean click shift and all things like a swiss clock feels great when tuned. You'll be in awe after riding Sora..
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Old 03-03-2011, 06:38 AM   #19212
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zodiac View Post
My Surly is all steel, and rides smooth as a cadillac, if you're going to go for steel, go all the way.

My rule for components is this = buy the best you can afford... The new Ultegra is supposedly incredible stuff, and the better the gruppo, the less adjusting, repairing, cleaning, tightening, and wear and tear. A clean click shift and all things like a swiss clock feels great when tuned. You'll be in awe after riding Sora..
Thanks

Now....can I see myself riding an orange bike I ask myself....
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Old 03-03-2011, 06:54 AM   #19213
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Mornin all. 57min on the bike at 20-something degrees out. Good thing I've invested in great clothes!

rant
There's a bunch of whiny little bitches in the club associated with the shop. Won't go out riding under 40deg. Too cold! Waaa! HTFU ya sissy Marys! Geez! Its not like we're in fucking Alaska or anything! This is Northern VA!
/rant

re steel forks: the biggest difference between steel and CF forks is the road buzz that gets thru on the steel fork but not on the CF fork. Big hits feel about the same on either. Steel is gonna be more 'forgiving' to live with for longer. ie: you don't hafta worry about mistreating it as much.

M
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Old 03-03-2011, 06:57 AM   #19214
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Thanks

Now....can I see myself riding an orange bike I ask myself....
PS - That bike has a very good wheelset, don't change out the rear - keep them paired - they're bulletproof and will last forever.
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Old 03-03-2011, 07:05 AM   #19215
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gummee! View Post
:
re steel forks: the biggest difference between steel and CF forks is the road buzz that gets thru on the steel fork but not on the CF fork. Big hits feel about the same on either. Steel is gonna be more 'forgiving' to live with for longer. ie: you don't hafta worry about mistreating it as much.

M
M, don't you think the buzz is more so when you're on an aluminum bike (with an aluminum fork) than when you're on a steel bike?

My theory is like a shock absorber; road is rough gives buzz from the ground up. As it travels up the steel fork into a steel frame it dissipates or goes through to the other end like a conductor. If it's a CF fork, it's meeting the other (different since it's a different material and resonates differently) material like steel or aluminum and they're repelling each other - like two different pitched tuning forks i.e. more buzz...

Since aluminum is so buzzy any CF at the lower ground level absorbs vibes well. So this works for alum bike frames.
But IMHO steel soaks up vibes better than CF, so CF forks on a steel bike is a wash. All you're creating is 2 different frequencies that meet at the headset - and most CF forks have a steel or aluminum steerer tube anyway (not high end).

Or maybe I'm just crazy....
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