ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Fluff > Sports
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rating: Thread Rating: 150 votes, 4.79 average. Display Modes
Old 05-27-2011, 07:25 PM   #20581
mgorman
Crashing since 1964
 
mgorman's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2006
Location: Massillon, Ohio
Oddometer: 4,906
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gummee! View Post
The guys that I rode with Wed are the 'freaky strong but don't race' type. M


I tried to talk one of our locals, Chuck Knot, into racing, he wasn't interested. Then last summer he went to the National 24 hour challenge in Michigan and set the national record in the 55-59 age group Now his son is hooked and they are going for the family title.

btw, he's also a former distance runner
__________________
Michael

AES Racing - Crow Canyon Riding Park
mgorman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2011, 07:41 PM   #20582
TheYeti
Hard to be Humble
 
TheYeti's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2006
Location: North Carolina, a little left of center
Oddometer: 1,063
Quote:
Originally Posted by mgorman View Post
When I tried to divide the 1st team into 2 groups, I did it similarly but somewhat evenly matched and like your group, one got a head start. The goal was that neither team was allowed to drop any riders in the chase/being chased groups.

Our biggest issue was the A riders following them and trying to fubar things like jumping in the pace lines then attacking and trying to blow things apart. I found them to be quite juvenile in their actions for a bunch of profession engineers and certified yuppies.

One of those riders did an attack from the middle of a pace line while riding with a different team and took the rider behind him down and broke his hip.
Yea we had mostly miltary, and what the road boss said was law. A bunch of the guys were SEAL's ,and trust me on this. they had nothing to prove to anybody. They would not give up period,They could be dying. You'd never know it,
__________________
"It sucks, It's always gonna suck.
You've got to learn to enjoy it."
Enjoy the Suck
Unknown Marine Recon Instructor
TheYeti is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2011, 08:14 PM   #20583
TheYeti
Hard to be Humble
 
TheYeti's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2006
Location: North Carolina, a little left of center
Oddometer: 1,063
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ridge View Post
I really don't understand the correlation to why previously strong runners make very strong cyclists, yet the same does not apply when a cyclist goes to running. Everyone that I know, that has come from a running background, has excelled at becoming strong cyclists and we even have one guy on the team that went from Cat 5 to Cat 2 within a year due to his running scholarships throughout college.

I so want to be a breakaway rider , but I need to work on increasing my threshold power before that will become a reality. Tried it this past Tuesday in my C race. Got away from the pack in a break of three with about 17 minutes left in the race. The other two in my break wanted to sustain 27-28mph and lap the field. I tried to convince them all we had to do was stay at around 25-26 after gaining half a lap on the pack, but they didn't want to hear any of that. I stayed with them until about 10 minutes to go and then dropped into no-man's land for the remainder of the race. I was able to hold off the pack by 1/3 of a lap for about 8 minutes when the bell rang for the last lap. They caught me at the last turn to the finish line and I had nothing left to give. Went from 3rd to 17th in the last 200m...

N.C. Crit champs in High Point this weekend. Racing tonight @ 5:45 (in thunderstorms... yay) and tomorrow afternoon @ 3.
A structured schedule really worked well for me when I raced. I did the Lemond/ really Cyril Guimard(sp) training routine. Now there are loads of them online. The good thing is you know what your going to do every day, no guess work.
__________________
"It sucks, It's always gonna suck.
You've got to learn to enjoy it."
Enjoy the Suck
Unknown Marine Recon Instructor
TheYeti is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2011, 08:45 PM   #20584
mgorman
Crashing since 1964
 
mgorman's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2006
Location: Massillon, Ohio
Oddometer: 4,906
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheYeti View Post
A structured schedule really worked well for me when I raced. I did the Lemond/ really Cyril Guimard(sp) training routine. Now there are loads of them online. The good thing is you know what your going to do every day, no guess work.

I tried Jacob Fetty at Fetty Concepts which was a good program but it had one major flaw, it didn't take into account things like Wives, kids, life, etc!!! Actually it did but when you have something like that you tend to want to stick to it without letting life get in the way.

All kidding aside, they are good to follow, especially if you tend to over-train. Rest is important and some people tend to go even harder when feeling good and dig themselves into a hole, not only in training but trying to race every weeknight crit and weekend race they can. I was told at my age (47) to only build 3 weeks, go easy a week.
__________________
Michael

AES Racing - Crow Canyon Riding Park
mgorman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2011, 10:18 PM   #20585
TheYeti
Hard to be Humble
 
TheYeti's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2006
Location: North Carolina, a little left of center
Oddometer: 1,063
Quote:
Originally Posted by mgorman View Post
I tried Jacob Fetty at Fetty Concepts which was a good program but it had one major flaw, it didn't take into account things like Wives, kids, life, etc!!! Actually it did but when you have something like that you tend to want to stick to it without letting life get in the way.

All kidding aside, they are good to follow, especially if you tend to over-train. Rest is important and some people tend to go even harder when feeling good and dig themselves into a hole, not only in training but trying to race every weeknight crit and weekend race they can. I was told at my age (47) to only build 3 weeks, go easy a week.
Hey, that sounds like Ridge. Just kidding. Racing and the training that's required really eats up your time, and other parts of your life suffer.Racing when I raced was very competitive even at the local level (training races,etc.). It's only gotten much more so. It was really like a part time job,I spent at least 18 hours a week on the bike, this time of year it was more maybe 20-25 hrs.
__________________
"It sucks, It's always gonna suck.
You've got to learn to enjoy it."
Enjoy the Suck
Unknown Marine Recon Instructor
TheYeti is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2011, 04:51 AM   #20586
mgorman
Crashing since 1964
 
mgorman's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2006
Location: Massillon, Ohio
Oddometer: 4,906
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheYeti View Post
Hey, that sounds like Ridge.
Eh? could be!! I've seen how much he's been posting and threw that in, not as a dig, but as a tidbit of info to think about. A few years back a pro told me when he was in Europe there were so many races you could almost race every day. He said that was the fastest way to burnout.



Quote:
Originally Posted by TheYeti View Post
Racing and the training that's required really eats up your time, and other parts of your life suffer.

That is why I've haven't done much racing or training. If I go to Moto-x or a big Dual Sport practice Saturday, I feel too dead to race Sunday and vice-versa.
__________________
Michael

AES Racing - Crow Canyon Riding Park
mgorman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2011, 06:22 AM   #20587
Gummee!
That's MR. Toothless
 
Gummee!'s Avatar
 
Joined: May 2004
Location: NoVA for now...
Oddometer: 27,440
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheYeti View Post
A structured schedule really worked well for me when I raced. I did the Lemond/ really Cyril Guimard(sp) training routine. Now there are loads of them online. The good thing is you know what your going to do every day, no guess work.
I'm working of Friel's stuff. Seems to work. ...and yeah, its nice to know what your ride is supposed to be before you go out. For example: today is 3hrs zone 2 with 4 x 90sec intervals at zone 5 with 4min rest in between

Yeah, they hurt, but if Wed is any indication, I need it

M
__________________
I'm a cyclist that rides motos, not a moto rider that rides bicycles.
Gummee! is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2011, 06:32 AM   #20588
Ridge
Hustle and Cuss
 
Ridge's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2006
Location: Chasing my tail
Oddometer: 1,312
Quote:
Originally Posted by mgorman View Post
Ridge, do you train alone or with a team or friend?

I was with a team that only wanted to do race simulation training. Basically, leave the parking lot and try to kill each other with no regard to noobs or the women of the group. SO I made it my pet project to always go back and pull them forward (if they could) and go back to business. That along with training on my own, I became a decent time trialist.

Pulling guys and girls back all the sudden go harder. That is when I found out the click part of the team found it humorous to to a 4 man TTT on the front to make sure I couldn't pull anyone back. The only problem they had was, the combined 4 couldn't out-run me.

For them it was race simulation, for me it was long interval work and it did me well. In the spring I start out 1x1, 3 sets of 5 (one minute on, one minute off) with 5 minutes rest between. Then every week or two, up the numbers, 2x2 then 3x3, 4x4 then start to change it up and go 5x4, 6x4. On some work outs after being acclimated to the stress, I'd do 10x10 or 20x20 until failure.

If you do it with a friend of unequal abilities adjust what you are doing. Carl and I would workouts but he was always behind. So we stated doing 2 man TT workouts and each others recovery was in the draft of the other and it didn't workout too bad. Other times I'd give him a 1 second head start and we'd try to catch or evade the other.

Another good one Josh and I do, he drafts me while I do the interval. Just trying to stay in the draft is a huge workout for him (cat 5) and no one gets left behind.

If we're doing a hill ride I always go to the front and give the others a chance to sit in and rest while I kill myself. This year though has been tough, I lost a lot of fitness over the winter laid up from back surgery so now I am starting to feel like my old self and find myself at the front more often.

Don't forget to do jumps, slow to around 18mph then slam it until your computer shows no more accelleration, hold that for a few seconds then coast back to 18, recover and repeat.

You can also try the vomitron. Warm up for 20 minutes minimum. Slow down and recover until your heart rate comes down to excited but not watching tv. Come to a complete stop, wait about 1 minute or two then go full tilt, max speed for 1 minute, then settle into race pace for 10 minutes. Ride easy 20 minutes then stop and do it again until you can't see straight or puke.

I did do one last workout with that team and showed up on my track bike (freewheeled). I was laughed at and made fun of for attempting it and told it was going to suck to be me. If sucking meant winning all the sprints and being 1st over the biggest hill, then I guess it sucked.

I was invited to ride with Orrville Cycling Team and felt like I fit right in. They also do too much hammering but the attitudes were much better and there is an A, B and C group and we actually rode real hills. The difference, one was a race team lead by 4 guys who wanted the team for themselves and no A,B,C (tried but was shot down), the other is a club with a race team. I like them enough I ended up being Club VP and some of the cyclotourist on that club are freaky strong! Guys that never race ride with the A's and ride strong.

I train, and race, alone 95% of the time. I'm on a team but there are only three active racers and the other two have no interest in training together even though we are all very close in ability. I have been invited to other, bigger teams with a more structured riding and training schedule but I get thrown under the bus and put on a guilt trip from my current team every time I bring it up for deserting a team I helped to start. But I digress...

I have to admit my interval work has been nearly non-existent. Not because I don't want to do it, but because I don't know where to start according to my needs and abilities. I have a good, stable sprint and I can spin a high cadence easily. My cornering is better than most due to my experience with motos. I almost always sit either on the front or try to stay about 5th - 10th wheel (which I can almost always do without much effort). My biggest weakness is when breakaways happen. I can usually break with them, but cannot sustain for long enough to stay away. My sprint to break is well over 30mph, but I have to recover down to about 24-25 with 4 or 5 guys in rotation to maintain. I can usually do this once during any given race and be fine. It's when the attacks come regularly that I start to hit the wall. Not having a team to counter the attacks so I can sit in for a bit is what pisses me off. I know it just means I need to become that much stronger, but it still sucks.

I have contacted a couple of cycling coaches in the area to see what their fee structures are and what they think of my performance needs. In the meantime, I'll try your workouts and see what kind of efforts I can hold.

I probably do race too often, but I just enjoy it so much. I don't have the kids and my wife supports whatever I decide to throw myself into. I just got into this last year, so I am very uneducated in the structure of training, peaking, etc. Until now, I could "race" myself into shape and be competitive. I'm hitting a plateau though and it's very frustrating.

So, it looks like I owe you and GUMMEE some beer-n-pizza...
__________________
"Lotta people go through life doing things badly. Racing's important to men who do it well. When you're racing, it's life. Anything that happens before or after is just waiting. " -Michael Delaney (Steve McQueen) in Le Mans

Ridge screwed with this post 05-28-2011 at 06:38 AM
Ridge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2011, 10:07 AM   #20589
TheYeti
Hard to be Humble
 
TheYeti's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2006
Location: North Carolina, a little left of center
Oddometer: 1,063
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ridge View Post
I train, and race, alone 95% of the time. I'm on a team but there are only three active racers and the other two have no interest in training together even though we are all very close in ability. I have been invited to other, bigger teams with a more structured riding and training schedule but I get thrown under the bus and put on a guilt trip from my current team every time I bring it up for deserting a team I helped to start. But I digress...

I have to admit my interval work has been nearly non-existent. Not because I don't want to do it, but because I don't know where to start according to my needs and abilities. I have a good, stable sprint and I can spin a high cadence easily. My cornering is better than most due to my experience with motos. I almost always sit either on the front or try to stay about 5th - 10th wheel (which I can almost always do without much effort). My biggest weakness is when breakaways happen. I can usually break with them, but cannot sustain for long enough to stay away. My sprint to break is well over 30mph, but I have to recover down to about 24-25 with 4 or 5 guys in rotation to maintain. I can usually do this once during any given race and be fine. It's when the attacks come regularly that I start to hit the wall. Not having a team to counter the attacks so I can sit in for a bit is what pisses me off. I know it just means I need to become that much stronger, but it still sucks.

I have contacted a couple of cycling coaches in the area to see what their fee structures are and what they think of my performance needs. In the meantime, I'll try your workouts and see what kind of efforts I can hold.

I probably do race too often, but I just enjoy it so much. I don't have the kids and my wife supports whatever I decide to throw myself into. I just got into this last year, so I am very uneducated in the structure of training, peaking, etc. Until now, I could "race" myself into shape and be competitive. I'm hitting a plateau though and it's very frustrating.

So, it looks like I owe you and GUMMEE some beer-n-pizza...
Check your pm
__________________
"It sucks, It's always gonna suck.
You've got to learn to enjoy it."
Enjoy the Suck
Unknown Marine Recon Instructor
TheYeti is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2011, 06:18 PM   #20590
ducnut
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joined: Feb 2009
Location: central IL
Oddometer: 3,116
Quote:
Originally Posted by ooweel View Post
Trust me I tried to search. 1366 pages is alot scroll thru because I have tried for the past two days to search this forum and keep getting a message "website cannot display the page" , causes? maintenance or programming errors". Yeah Right! I know its me! So sorry to drag this out if its been talked at length.

I am looking to buy a bike stand. Started bicycling a couple years ago
and I am tired of servicing my bike upside down on my work bench or when thats clutterd trash cans. Having always to think it thru backards while adjusting everything. I am hoping that like when I bought my motorcycle lift I will kick my self in the A$$ for waiting so long to pick up a decent portable bike stand.

Been looking at the Park and Ultimate portable stands. So what advice would you give on stands or what seems to to work as a good stand of this type for you? really want to be able to fold it up and keep a small as possible foot print yet hold up a MB style bike down to a road bike.

THANKS!
I have an older Ultimate stand. I really like it. However, the adjustable clamp that adjusts the height has broken. They used to use some kind of composite that became brittle over time. I just use a hose clamp in its place, now. The new ones use a different style clamp from different material. Also, the newer stands have a different head on them. Mine has started to sag, from a lot of use. The new ones are much more durable and better designed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheNedster View Post
I'm just gonna channel my inner Askel and keep reminding myself that I'm having fun.
I do the same thing, when I'm out on the gravel roads.

Quote:
Originally Posted by slackmeyer View Post
Look, there's nothing that says you have to get a bike fit on day one. Ride for a few weeks, start getting in shape for being in a bicycling position for a few hours at a time, and lose a little weight. I think you're going to feel a lot better on the bike pretty quick. But if you notice your position bothering you, before you start dropping money on random stems and cranks and pedals and seats and different width handlebars, spend the money on the bike fit.

signed,

someone who has never had a bike fit, and has plenty of different random stems and cranks and handlebars and seats around because of it.

zak
^^^ I'm with you, on this one.

I've had three different bike fits, on three different bikes, from three different people. On all three bikes, I've ended up somewhere totally different from where they were set at. One bike ended up getting sold, as it was way too big.....what does that say about fit from the that shop? I've ridden enough miles, now, that I pretty much know where I need to be on positioning of the cockpit. I never worry about my fore/aft position, as it relates to the BB. YMMV.
__________________
'09 Triumph Tiger1050
'96 Ducati 900SS
'02 Suzuki SV650S (hers)
ducnut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2011, 07:12 PM   #20591
mgorman
Crashing since 1964
 
mgorman's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2006
Location: Massillon, Ohio
Oddometer: 4,906
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ridge View Post
I don't have the kids and my wife supports whatever I decide to throw myself into. I just got into this last year, so I am very uneducated in the structure of training, peaking, etc. Until now, I could "race" myself into shape and be competitive. I'm hitting a plateau though and it's very frustrating.

So, it looks like I owe you and GUMMEE some beer-n-pizza...

Don't owe me anything, just do your best and be as professional as you can be. I'm taking it since you're starting up you are either a cat 4 or 5. If so, there are many things to remember, you still have to develop parts of your cycling ability that others who have been picking the class have been developing for years.

The team I left had guys on it that have been cat 4's since the 80's, back before there was a cat 5 field and 4's were the true beginners!! One finally upgraded to Cat 3 after many people flat out started calling him a cherry picker. The other has won the cat 4 state road races 3 or 4 times and has never been made to up grade thank you USAC!!!

The shorter intense intervals will help you with the repeated attacks, the longer ones will help you sustain the break.

Motorpacing is good too if you have a friend with a moto. FOllow behind at a race pace and periodically poke your head out into the wind then get back in and rest.
__________________
Michael

AES Racing - Crow Canyon Riding Park
mgorman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2011, 09:33 PM   #20592
TheYeti
Hard to be Humble
 
TheYeti's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2006
Location: North Carolina, a little left of center
Oddometer: 1,063
Here's a butt puckerer

http://www.thepostgame.com/features/...ters-look-lame

See below
__________________
"It sucks, It's always gonna suck.
You've got to learn to enjoy it."
Enjoy the Suck
Unknown Marine Recon Instructor

TheYeti screwed with this post 05-28-2011 at 10:33 PM
TheYeti is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2011, 09:40 PM   #20593
Ricardo Kuhn
a.k.a. Mr Rico Suave
 
Ricardo Kuhn's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2001
Location: Salt lake city, Utah
Oddometer: 12,208
First Triple back flip on a BMX bike.
__________________
I'm looking for a cheap battery for my 11GS so I can get her running again..
Ricardo Kuhn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2011, 06:47 AM   #20594
Askel
Perma-n00b
 
Askel's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2005
Location: Da UP, eh.
Oddometer: 10,450
Ahhh... It's nice to enjoy bicycling for a bit and not try to kill myself getting crazy miles in if the weather is anything less than "major blizzard" (and only because that's skiin' weather).

Looks like a major shindig up in Copper Harbor this weekend: https://www.imba.com/civicrm/event/info?reset=1&id=110

Heading up there to go play for the day.

Pretty much stripped down the Jake after the Royal. New cables and housings, derailer pulleys, brakes, and bar tape. Got the racks and fenders on it. Leaving next week for a 450 mile jaunt around WI with some friends. Might tack another 200 or so miles on the end of that, because- well, I'm me.
Askel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2011, 07:05 AM   #20595
Ridge
Hustle and Cuss
 
Ridge's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2006
Location: Chasing my tail
Oddometer: 1,312
Quote:
Originally Posted by mgorman View Post
Don't owe me anything, just do your best and be as professional as you can be. I'm taking it since you're starting up you are either a cat 4 or 5. If so, there are many things to remember, you still have to develop parts of your cycling ability that others who have been picking the class have been developing for years.

The team I left had guys on it that have been cat 4's since the 80's, back before there was a cat 5 field and 4's were the true beginners!! One finally upgraded to Cat 3 after many people flat out started calling him a cherry picker. The other has won the cat 4 state road races 3 or 4 times and has never been made to up grade thank you USAC!!!

The shorter intense intervals will help you with the repeated attacks, the longer ones will help you sustain the break.

Motorpacing is good too if you have a friend with a moto. FOllow behind at a race pace and periodically poke your head out into the wind then get back in and rest.
I'm cat 4 with almost enough points to upgrade. If nothing else, I'm looking forward to the 3's to get away from all the sketchy bike handling in the 4's and 5's.

NC crit championships went pretty well. Friday night I finished 17th out of 50 in a field sprint. Had third prior to the last turn, but it was a decreasing radius turning into a stepped hill to the finish. I took the turn fast enough but too wide and scrubbed off too much speed correcting. By the time I got straightened out to sprint, they were on my wheel.

Last night was a different course and a bit smaller field. This race was to determine the N.C. Cat 4 crit champion. No money, just medals and a winner's jersey. I sat in about 10th wheel most of the race. Did a couple of pulls up front and quickly folded in. It was a 6 turn course with short, flat bursts between turns. Previously racing motos really helps when laying out turns. I found that I could out-corner most of the guys in the pack and maintain a much higher exit speed out of the turns. On the last lap, I used this to my advantage. With three turns to go, I was sitting 5th wheel and the leaders were sweeping hard right to make their corner. As they did this, I jumped straight through their sweep (did not cut them off), made the turn, straightened out the next corner and went full tilt to the last turn. It was a wide 90 degree with a 75m sprint to the finish and I was in first place. Two guys came around me with two more on their wheels right at the finish line. Probably got 5th by less than a half-second's difference between the four of us. Still pretty satisfied with the result.
__________________
"Lotta people go through life doing things badly. Racing's important to men who do it well. When you're racing, it's life. Anything that happens before or after is just waiting. " -Michael Delaney (Steve McQueen) in Le Mans
Ridge is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 10:59 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014