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Old 07-19-2012, 07:24 AM   #24556
Mr Head
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Oh, and I got out for a mid-week ride. short and to the point. Burned up my legs on the big hill finally. I'd not been up and over that for a while.


Not a lot of miles and not real fast, but being able to head out and get warmed then ride about nine miles into a good/bad headwind at about 17 mph was a nice feeling.
At one point on the big hill I looked down at the computer to see my speed at 3.1 mph. I'm pretty sure I can run that fast up that part of the hill.

Zero back pain.
Zero knee pain as well.
I headed east to check out what they have been doing to the river trail out that way. They have been moving the riverbed a good bit. And once they are done it looks like the golf course will have a lot more room. All the big equipment kept my mind off what my legs felt like so I got slowly warmed up. I rode up to the top of the parking area turned around and headed back toward home and my big hill. But, I decided to ride down past the park to the bridge to get good and warm. I think that was a good plan. I felt good at the bottom where the grade is shallow. I only flet like stopping once mainly due to the heat when everything piled on at once. The hill steepness, the wind blocked and right in the sun. I spied some big shade and just focused on that. Then rode, well plodded shade to shade to the top.

Now, I'm planning a hilly street ride to the ocean for the weekend.
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Old 07-19-2012, 07:33 AM   #24557
kannonbal
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Originally Posted by ducnut View Post
eBay and Craigslist are your best bets, as there is a lot of barely used equipment out there.

If you have to have new, all the major brands have nice stuff in the $2200 range.

This is the best deal I know of. They're offering $100 off, in Triathlete magazine. Just sell off the stuff you don't want.

This place always has discounted bikes.

There are some good articles here. Don't get too wrapped up in them or the forum.

This is an important database. Looking at this will allow you to figure out what bikes fit better. I like as much stack height as I can get. It's more important to be comfortable and be able to make power in that position than is to be low, aero, and not making power. You can always take a bike that has a higher stack height and get it lower as you progress, but, you can't really go the other way.
Thanks for taking the time to compile all this info. Though, after the ass kicking I received yesterday, maybe just some clamp on aero bars, a helmet, and a skin suit may be the smartest route for me right now.
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Old 07-19-2012, 07:43 AM   #24558
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Originally Posted by Ridge View Post
Sometimes you just need a rabbit to chase. This can give a good picture of speed fitness if that's what you're shooting for. I train solo 99% of the time, but occasionally join a group ride. Some are crazy fast and very close to race simulation whereas most others are usually somewhere in-between. It really boils down to what you want to get out of the ride.

As for the snotty pricks part... roadies are just a tight clique of riders. We all usually ride within the same group due to safety in numbers and the confidence of repeatedly riding at speed among the same group. Any time a new rider wishes to join a fast group, it's met with cautious apprehension. This is only because a lot can go wrong in a very short period of time if that new rider is unfamiliar with group riding dynamics at speed. Single-line pacelining, rotating double pacelines, sprint drills and other activities during the ride are best left to those that do it regularly and aren't redlining their fitness level in the middle of a ride. Cycling at speed for long periods is all about efficiency of power conservation. If the group can rotate a pace line efficiently at speed, they will be within inches of each others tires without worrying about mishandling, wobbling or sketchiness from someone trying to stay in but is hitting their limit. Any time you add loose handling to speed, it creates a dangerous situation for everyone.

All that said... patience, dedication to your goal(s) and humility are the best tools in your arsenal. There's always someone faster out there and one day it will be you.
Very interesting and spot on observations here, I think. Your insights into the danger of a new rider rolling with a practiced group certainly makes a lot of sense and, to be honest, I can't fault them for that. As you may have surmised, I don't have a lot of practice with rolling fast and tight and I can understand their apprehension as I would be the same way if the shoe was on the other foot.

I have been invited to join this group for months and I have not done it as I never thought I would be able to hang at all (which I was right about, apparently) The boys who have been offering me a spot were really friendly and encouraging yesterday, which was definitely appreciated. These guys have been riding together for years and are highly practiced on this route, too, so I can't really expect to be on a level with them, but it is still a bleak feeling to pop off so quickly.

I am not, in my nature, anything remotely approaching a racer and I was just looking to push myself and have an opportunity to practice pacelining, maintaining effort, etc. I am still not sure if I even enjoy the stress and pressure of being in a tight and fast group for so many miles. What drew me into road biking in the first place is the time in my own space and the internal struggle with my effort and the group dynamic may just not be for me. Don't know if you don't try though, I guess.
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Old 07-19-2012, 07:48 AM   #24559
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Originally Posted by Mr Head View Post
I began riding with a team back in the 80's after working the Coors Classic stage race in Colorado. The group wuld begin form the shop in lower downtown and head either north up Riverdale road or east past the airport, (the old one the new one was still wheat). About the time we made the overpass out by the north end of Stapleton, the group would be gone. They would just go.
It took a friend and I a good three or four months of riding with them and on our own learning to ride better, harder, spinning and climbing to be able to hang with them after that gun went off.
After a year we could take our turn in the pace line and not puke. Eventually we got to where we could even chase and catch the juniors.
Then after a lot of mountain miles I was able to drop the group on the feed hill at the Morgul-Bismark course and never saw them for three laps or so, when I finally got bored and sat on the rail at the top of the Wall and waited for them. That was my reward for those first few months of the group dissappearing off into the distance.

Riding with a good team can be great. You can learn a ton that just can't be learned off the bike. And there is nothing, nothing like spinning along nearly effortlessly at 28 to 30 mph in a big group talking and letting the juniors tow you all up the road. The sound all those sew-ups and high pressure tires make at that speed is one of the coolest things I've ever experienced. Smack talking around the big lunch table at the sponsoring feed bag was cool too.
If the group you rode with doesn't turn out to click with you, there are lots more. Check the local shops for teams and training rides.
That is exactly what my sponsor (?) said. Basically he reminded me that these boys have been practicing for years, are all accomplished cat 1 riders, and are looking to hurt each other on this ride each week and that I need to be realistic with my expectations and to not get discouraged. Just because I can hold a good pace while riding by myself, it is a entirely different game rolling with the big boys. I guess I should just be flattered they even invited me to try riding with them.

Thanks, guys, for all the insights!
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Old 07-19-2012, 08:58 AM   #24560
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Originally Posted by kannonbal View Post
.
As an aside, why are so many road bikes such snotty pricks. Maybe 3 guys out of 15 even bothered to introduce themselves to me. So, on the bright side, it's not like I missed out on a chance to hang out with some cool new people.
.
This is kind of why I hang out with tri folks. Maybe it's the complete lack of dignity, but they're a lot more welcoming than most of the hardcore cyclists I've encountered. The crit nerds were the *worst*.
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Old 07-19-2012, 09:33 AM   #24561
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Originally Posted by Aurelius View Post
I noticed last week that my 26er's front wheel comes up too easily on hill climbs, no matter how I positioned myself. On very steep hills, it proved to be impossible to keep the front end down, even with my chest as far over the handlebars as possible. A more experienced riders tells me that instead of using the large gear in front and the largest gear in back, I should have used the small gear in front and the third or even fourth largest gear in back. He claimed this would even out the torque spikes going to the back wheel and prevent the front end from coming up with every pedal stroke. I haven't had the chance to try his advice due to rain, but I can't see why this would make a difference. Won't the amount of torque be approximately the same in both cases?

You've got to move your CoG forward and down. You've got your chest to the bars, but move your ass towards the front of the saddle, to the point that the nose of the saddle is almost in your, well you get the idea. Also, keep your elbows tucked in towards your hips - basically parallel to your body as opposed to the "bat wing" style. At the same time twist your grips downwards (like twisting a throttle for more gas) as you take a pedal stroke. All these things combined will make climbing more ergonomically efficient. Practice this technique on small hills and work up to steeper climbs.

Regarding gearing, depends on the grade of the hill, the traction of the surface and your pedalling force.
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Old 07-19-2012, 09:38 AM   #24562
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Originally Posted by ducnut View Post



I have a ton of elbow and wrist issues. I've had each operated on once and have been told I'm going to need another round of surgeries on each (8 in total, twice per wrist and twice per elbow). I started using an aerobar, to get the weight off my wrists and elbows. Using them allows your skeleton to support your weight and not subject your joints to the task. Your bike is on the smaller size, for your height, so you shouldn't have any problem with the front-to-rear dimension. However, you'll probably have to go to a 125 degree stem, to get your bars up high enough to be comfortable. My road ride is here. Since the pic, I've added a 125 degree stem and changed the drivetrain to SRAM. This is the aerobar I use. It has the most adjustability and stack height that I've found.
Thanks for the advice I truly appreciate it. I looked at the aero bars but wasn't sure if it would work, it makes sense and worth a try.

Thanks again
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Old 07-19-2012, 12:28 PM   #24563
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Originally Posted by kannonbal View Post
went out with some of the fast boys of the local club yesterday. Fucking humbling. Made it over the first few undulations with them, hit the flats and 6" turned into 5' turned into broken elastic all in about 30 seconds. Spun like hell to try to close, failed, and that was all she wrote.

Disappointing because I really expected more from myself.

Have a whole slew of excuses but, at the end of the day, it was just that I am not anywhere near their level of fitness even though my fitness is worlds above where it used to be.

As an aside, why are so many road bikes such snotty pricks. Maybe 3 guys out of 15 even bothered to introduce themselves to me. So, on the bright side, it's not like I missed out on a chance to hang out with some cool new people.

I sure like the charity rides (with spandexed women) a whole lot more.

I know riding with this group will make me stronger but really not sure if I even want to go next week

sigh....
Ridge hits the nail on the head,Cyclists are a close knit group. Riding and Training is what will make you stronger,if you are getting dropped from a group fairly quickly you need a slower group. One that will make you work hard to stay with,not one that'll blow you off the back. Group ride is just that (riding with other people) if you're gonna be riding by your self why go on a group ride.That being said ,If you Use these "fast guys" to gauge your fitness don't be too hard on your self, Now you know what to expect. Each time you ride with them, ask your self what were my weakness on the ride ,More hill work, speed work, strengh work, endurance training. or all the above. A good training program will give your training structure. Good luck stay in touch.
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Old 07-19-2012, 02:11 PM   #24564
k7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ridge View Post
Sometimes you just need a rabbit to chase. This can give a good picture of speed fitness if that's what you're shooting for. I train solo 99% of the time, but occasionally join a group ride. Some are crazy fast and very close to race simulation whereas most others are usually somewhere in-between. It really boils down to what you want to get out of the ride.

As for the snotty pricks part... roadies are just a tight clique of riders. We all usually ride within the same group due to safety in numbers and the confidence of repeatedly riding at speed among the same group. Any time a new rider wishes to join a fast group, it's met with cautious apprehension. This is only because a lot can go wrong in a very short period of time if that new rider is unfamiliar with group riding dynamics at speed. Single-line pacelining, rotating double pacelines, sprint drills and other activities during the ride are best left to those that do it regularly and aren't redlining their fitness level in the middle of a ride. Cycling at speed for long periods is all about efficiency of power conservation. If the group can rotate a pace line efficiently at speed, they will be within inches of each others tires without worrying about mishandling, wobbling or sketchiness from someone trying to stay in but is hitting their limit. Any time you add loose handling to speed, it creates a dangerous situation for everyone.

All that said... patience, dedication to your goal(s) and humility are the best tools in your arsenal. There's always someone faster out there and one day it will be you.
Good post. I don't do fast group rides any more but if it were me, I'd keep trying to hang with them but hang off the back and work your way into the group slowly over the course of several weeks as your fitness increases.

Once they see that you have good skills, can maintain discipline with your speeds and aren't a nervous rider, you won't have any issues.

Just remember though, the average IQ of any group of riders, bicycle or motorcycle, goes down as the number of riders increase. They just don't want anyone to push them too far to the left of the bell curve.
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Old 07-19-2012, 02:32 PM   #24565
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Riding with my local club/team. We're going as team trunk monkey this year. We'll be in a white 15 passenger van towing a red trailer with Cycles de Oro plastered all over it. We should be arriving early Saturday morning. Will try and ping you then. Mine is 919.328.0265 James

Team White Bus here we had 'liscence plates' last year, not sure about this year

Probbably wont be there till saturday around dinner

Brian: 515.707.7462
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Old 07-19-2012, 04:42 PM   #24566
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Originally Posted by kannonbal View Post
Thanks for taking the time to compile all this info. Though, after the ass kicking I received yesterday, maybe just some clamp on aero bars, a helmet, and a skin suit may be the smartest route for me right now.
Ass-kickings happen, no matter what equipment you have.
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Old 07-19-2012, 06:14 PM   #24567
RxZ
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Did my first full loop of the local trail this afternoon

After two rides, and one crash (not including a massive crash in Angle Fire a few weeks ago on a rental bike)... I can tell this may turn into a pricey hobby

I'm running low on hobbies though, so I can handle it
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Old 07-19-2012, 07:51 PM   #24568
Brek81
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Just put mini-v's on the cross bike..... So that's what stopping feels like......this may take all the fun out of riding with groups :P
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Old 07-19-2012, 07:58 PM   #24569
Ridge
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Originally Posted by Brek81 View Post
Team White Bus here we had 'liscence plates' last year, not sure about this year

Probbably wont be there till saturday around dinner

Brian: 515.707.7462
cool, we loaded the trailer tonight and pick up the van in the morning. hope I get to catch you guys.

sent from my intergalactic space modulator
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Old 07-20-2012, 04:15 AM   #24570
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