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Old 08-23-2012, 09:34 AM   #24901
vfr700
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Originally Posted by Aurelius View Post
Strava users aren't trying to replicate racing.
Call it what you want, it's racing. Attempting to beat the best time is what then? I'm glad people are out riding, supporting the industry, acclimating the public to sharing the roads with cyclists, etc. Strava is goofy, but if it is the motivation for riding, that's great.
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Old 08-23-2012, 09:40 AM   #24902
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Originally Posted by Aurelius View Post
Strava's website states that even in optimal conditions, GPS tracking is only accurate to within 10 meters (33 feet). ... are riders placing entirely too much faith in their GPS to provide the degree of accuracy these results require?
Yup (without differential correction, that is).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Error_a...tioning_System

Factor in tree cover, cloud cover and how many satellites are used to triangulate your position and you have yourself more error than that. I wouldn't count on it in race conditions. Like Gumme said, first across the line is where it's at. Or a stopwatch at a TT.
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Old 08-23-2012, 09:45 AM   #24903
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Wow. While at my age I have absolutely ZERO interest in racing bikes, I do have a new found respect for those that do it competitively and do it well.

I've recently incorporated bike riding into my workout routine, nothing special, 20 to 25 mile rides on my mountain bike averaging 16/17 mph about 4 to 5 days a week for the last 3 months.

Had to take about 2 weeks off the bike but continued my other workout blocks, which include running 3-4 miles for cardio.

Wholly molly, I got back on the bike last evening to tackle a very familiar 25 mile ride only to break down (physically/mentally) at about mile 13 with an average speed of about 14 mph.

Pathetic.

I clearly see why some of you ride and train so aggressively, as if you don't someone else will.

Really? 2 measly weeks off the bike to drop this far back?

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Old 08-23-2012, 09:50 AM   #24904
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vfr700 View Post
Call it what you want, it's racing. Attempting to beat the best time is what then? I'm glad people are out riding, supporting the industry, acclimating the public to sharing the roads with cyclists, etc. Strava is goofy, but if it is the motivation for riding, that's great.
When I trained with weights, I kept records of all my past performances. I did this to gauge my improvement and to test the results of various training methodologies, NOT because I had the slightest inclination to be a weight lifter or partake in weight lifting competitions. That's what Strava does for bicyclists, runners, etc. Others use it for no other reason other than to keep an electronic log of all the places they've been on their bicycles, motorcyclists, boats, etc.

It's as absurd to assume that anyone who uses Strava is a wannabe racer as it is to assume that racers don't use Strava. Both are patently false assumptions.
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Old 08-23-2012, 10:01 AM   #24905
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Originally Posted by Gummee! View Post
AFA strava users not trying to replicate racing: What ARE they doing then?! Sounds like a race to me. ...only without any kind of real competition involved.

M
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Old 08-23-2012, 10:37 AM   #24906
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Originally Posted by Aurelius View Post
When I trained with weights, I kept records of all my past performances. I did this to gauge my improvement and to test the results of various training methodologies, NOT because I had the slightest inclination to be a weight lifter or partake in weight lifting competitions. That's what Strava does for bicyclists, runners, etc. Others use it for no other reason other than to keep an electronic log of all the places they've been on their bicycles, motorcyclists, boats, etc.

It's as absurd to assume that anyone who uses Strava is a wannabe racer as it is to assume that racers don't use Strava. Both are patently false assumptions.
Ok, I get that. What you were not doing is comparing your training records with another weight lifter's records/progress. Using other people's Strava posting's isn't exactly an academic approach to track progress. I have training records that date back to the 80's, they are only useful to me.

I wasn't assuming that those who use Strava are "wannabe racers", but if they are competing against other Strava users then what are they? How is that a measure of one's progress? I can ride the same circuit every day, and depending on the conditions have a large disparity in average speed. Comparing my ride with another rider when wind and temp conditions are variable is not an accurate measure of progress.

Tracking you personal information with GPS data is great, I use Garmin products to accomplish the same thing. I don't compete with other Garmin users though.
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Old 08-23-2012, 11:42 AM   #24907
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aurelius View Post
When I trained with weights, I kept records of all my past performances. I did this to gauge my improvement and to test the results of various training methodologies, NOT because I had the slightest inclination to be a weight lifter or partake in weight lifting competitions. That's what Strava does for bicyclists, runners, etc. Others use it for no other reason other than to keep an electronic log of all the places they've been on their bicycles, motorcyclists, boats, etc.

It's as absurd to assume that anyone who uses Strava is a wannabe racer as it is to assume that racers don't use Strava. Both are patently false assumptions.
That's great, but did you post your weights up on the innerwebs for people to try and beat? Hey LOOKIT ME! I lifted 300#! Beat that! That's strava.

Keeping records on your own is easier to do on other software.

I know racers that are strava users. Rode with at least one last nite. The difference is emphasis. They're using strava as a training tool, its certainly not a race to them.

M
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Old 08-23-2012, 11:46 AM   #24908
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Everyone knows the real reason for Strava to use the KOM concept - it's simply there to drive traffic to their site. More traffic means more $$$ for them. The KOM crap is simply a gimmick and a rather good one at that. Some will certainly find it useful, others could care less. YMMV of course.
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Old 08-23-2012, 11:55 AM   #24909
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Originally Posted by vfr700 View Post
Ok, I get that. What you were not doing is comparing your training records with another weight lifter's records/progress. Using other people's Strava posting's isn't exactly an academic approach to track progress. I have training records that date back to the 80's, they are only useful to me.

I wasn't assuming that those who use Strava are "wannabe racers", but if they are competing against other Strava users then what are they? How is that a measure of one's progress? I can ride the same circuit every day, and depending on the conditions have a large disparity in average speed. Comparing my ride with another rider when wind and temp conditions are variable is not an accurate measure of progress.
I imagine that those vying for top honors on the leader boards make sure that all their attempts are made under optimal conditions. And from what I've seen so far, there are no large disparities. For example, I did three hill climbs one week apart and my results in order were: 1min 8 seconds, 1min 9 seconds, and 1min 12 seconds. My lap time at another trail is almost exactly 7 minutes, both times. These are heavily wooded areas so there is no wind to contend with, and weather conditions were identical (mid 90's, high humidity, dry ground). I've been following the rivalry between two riders at a popular local trail lately. One of them held a number of KOMs there, but the other has been steadily improving his times. Now he's tied for KOM on one segment and is the undisputed leader on another. If that's not an indicator of progress, I don't know what you'd call it.

Quote:
Tracking you personal information with GPS data is great, I use Garmin products to accomplish the same thing. I don't compete with other Garmin users though.
There are different types of competition. When I began working out at the gym, I'd pay attention to how much weight other people of my size, age, and build were training with, and I'd set myself the goal of exceeding those amounts. That's obviously not the same as competing in a sanctioned weight lifting match, but it is nonetheless a type of competition. As I got much stronger, I eventually only had my own previous records to compete against. This is what I hope to use Strava for.
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Old 08-23-2012, 12:02 PM   #24910
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My better half wanted a steel rig to match the Peg, this is now living on the shelf next to the Peg.

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Old 08-23-2012, 12:17 PM   #24911
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Originally Posted by Gummee! View Post
That's great, but did you post your weights up on the innerwebs for people to try and beat? Hey LOOKIT ME! I lifted 300#! Beat that! That's strava.
The comparison doesn't make sense. In order to see my Strava results, I have no option but to upload them to Strava's website. When I do that, Strava automatically arranges them alongside other people's results. I don't post them there for others to look at; that's just how the software works. Now, let's say that my times were in fact good enough to be at the top of the leader board. Why would it trouble you that other riders might see that as a challenge and try to beat my times? If wanting to better my results inspires others to improve their skills, what's wrong with that? Conversely, what's wrong with me training harder because I'm dissatisfied with results that place me somewhere in the middle of the pack, when I prefer to be near the top?

Quote:
I know racers that are strava users. Rode with at least one last nite. The difference is emphasis. They're using strava as a training tool, its certainly not a race to them.
Precisely my point. Strava is not racing, and I don't know of anyone who thinks it is. There is no reason to assume that anyone looking to earn a KOM has any interest in doing the sort of racing you do.
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Dizave opined: Why do you care where the premises come from? They are above reproach. For all intents and purposes, you can just make up all your premises, since they can't be proven anyway. That's why we need premises.
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Old 08-23-2012, 02:57 PM   #24912
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Originally Posted by Gummee! View Post
That's great, but did you post your weights up on the innerwebs for people to try and beat? Hey LOOKIT ME! I lifted 300#! Beat that! That's strava.



M
No, that's Crossfit
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Old 08-23-2012, 02:59 PM   #24913
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Is there a thread somewhere about all the ADV guys doing moto support at the US Pro Cycling Challenge?
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Old 08-23-2012, 03:03 PM   #24914
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No, that's Crossfit
Sorry. My mistake

M
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Old 08-23-2012, 03:03 PM   #24915
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Originally Posted by Flaco View Post
Is there a thread somewhere about all the ADV guys doing moto support at the US Pro Cycling Challenge?
Short answer: sorta. I just forgot where I saw it. Perfect Line maybe?

M
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